Crazy stunted growth on just some of my girls; what's the deal?

[ttystikk]

Hey all, I keep running into this issue and it's got me scratching my head. I'll try to include all the info I can, and I hope the pics are good enough to see what the girls are doing.

Hydro Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Clones
2. How old are your plants? 1-3 months, still in veg.
3. How tall are your plants? up to 1 meter
4. What type of hydro system are you using? here's where it gets weird; some do it in my homebuilt RDWC, 'UC' style- others in my ebb n flood table
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? Jacks Professional 5-12-26, plus calcium nitrate and Superthrive
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? 5.75-6.0
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water? my Blulab truncheon doesn't register it; very low
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution? RDWC; EC1.2-1.4, ebb n flow; EC 1.8-2.2
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? RDWC; 62-64, ebb n flow; 68
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? generally steady, as water levels drop
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? swings, but never by a lot
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? not recently
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") RDWC; 2x1000w MH, 2x1000w HPS. These are all sealed and vented to stay cool. ebb n flow lit by LED.
14. How close are your lights to the plants? Tops are as close as 6", or 15cm, but that's not where the stunting is
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? 8x8
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? RDWC; mid 70s, humidity 20%, ebb n flow; 65-75%
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? funny little flying bugs that bite, but don't seem to congregate on the plants; haven't found them anywhere in books, they don't ever seem to attack plants. They seem to 'hunt', so I'm guessing they're some sort of predator. They are NOT mites, thrips, aphids, fungus gnats- I've seen all these before and have successfully controlled them.
18. How much experience do you have growing? Many years, but only about 2 in RDWC/ebb n flood.

 

[rick ratlin]

I run ebb and flow as well, but I max out at .9 EC in veg, and 1.2 in flower. The leaf claw could be nitrogen toxicity and looks blue, though that could be the led. If you're feeding that high in ebb and flow, flush often. Try to keep your rh around 55% if possible. I've run into many leaf problems due to light intensity coupled with overwatering and rh issues. Trust me, in veg, the plants don't need too much to eat.

 

[ttystikk]

I run ebb and flow as well, but I max out at .9 EC in veg, and 1.2 in flower. The leaf claw could be nitrogen toxicity and looks blue, though that could be the led. If you're feeding that high in ebb and flow, flush often. Try to keep your rh around 55% if possible. I've run into many leaf problems due to light intensity coupled with overwatering and rh issues. Trust me, in veg, the plants don't need too much to eat.

Here's the screwy thing though- some plants are fine, and others look like this. Even plants that were cloned from the same moms at the same time and sitting side by side in the same tray are reacting differently. None of those shots were taken under LED; they're either HPS or MH lit. In ebb n flow room, RH is above 60%, often over 70%. It's the veg. RDWC/HID room where these pics were taken that I'm having trouble keeping the humidity up.

 

[tattoojim]

whats up bro..im new to the hydro game.. but i was wondering how your tap water has such low ec/ppm? ive found with using r/o for my second grow.. the low ppm of my water will cause some plants to show sings of needing more in late vegg...using r/o water i have to keep better tabs on my girls and i dont like all the shit i have to do to r/o water to make it good for my plants

 

[ttystikk]

whats up bro..im new to the hydro game.. but i was wondering how your tap water has such low ec/ppm? ive found with using r/o for my second grow.. the low ppm of my water will cause some plants to show sings of needing more in late vegg...using r/o water i have to keep better tabs on my girls and i dont like all the shit i have to do to r/o water to make it good for my plants

Because I live in a community that gets its water pretty directly from the snowpack of the Rocky Mountains, the water that comes out of the tap has very little dissolved solids, and next to no agricultural runoff. It certainly does have something in it, but it's well under the 100ppm minimum threshold of my Blulab Truncheon.

I use nutrient salts that allow me to replace anything I want in the water, it's relatively easy for me therefore to 'compensate' for the inherent softness of the water here.

 

[ttystikk]

Making closer inspection of various aspects of my setup, I notice that plants in 4" rockwool cubes are doing much better overall than those in hydroton. Is this relevant, or...?

Thinking further aobut the EC of the solutions I'm running, I got this stunted stuff even when my EC was so low that plants were showing deficiencies all over the place, and produced little trichomes. At the time, I thought it was low EC, but increasing solution strength hasn't helped.

 

[ttystikk]

Still trying to figure out what the bugs are. They're small, look a little like fungus gnats but aren't, they fly with clear wings, they run around a lot like they're hunting (most plant pests tap in and hang out), they bite me but don't leave marks, they seem mottled or spotted, and they don't seem to be feeding on the plants themselves.

I have a healthy population of spiders that do a great job of keeping stray infestations down so I am very reluctant to go in there and spray the crap out of everything indiscriminately.

 

[fishwhistle]

tty,what are your low temps like?even though your in another state i beleive its the same enviro(hi desert,overnight lows in 20s)i have from previous posts youve put up,if i dont watch my nightime low temps some of my babys will slow/stop(stunted) growing for awhile,right now i am seriously working at controlling my enviro much better.

 

[ttystikk]

My day and night temps don't vary all that much since I'm indoors. Highs in the 80 degree range, lows about 72. In the nursery area things are even more stable, at about 72-74 all the time.

I'm wondering if I'm keeping plants too long, and in their process of getting 'old', maybe they're more susceptible to environmental stresses. Put another way, once they've been stunted a bit, they never recover.

I'm also struggling with cloning; lately, I can't seem to get a cutting to root to save my soul.

 

[T Ramos]

Try placing a pair of sun glasses over the lens of your camera when in the HPS light. It will remove the lines that make it hard to see the pics good.

 

[ttystikk]

The stunting and leaf curl is showing up on parts of the plant that get the least light. I'm thinking this may have something to do with it.