a few different soil mixes..

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outwest

outwest

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I just looked up Vic's recipe. Looks really good. It has similarities to most soil recipes, but looking at the recipes side by side, as well as the way SubCool's recipe is administered, I don't see it as a ripoff.

outwest
 
odogodo

odogodo

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SubCool's recipe does not call for coir, the base is roots organic which has coir as one of many ingredients. I do not boil or bake the soil. I think there were bugs in it, but caps bennies took care of that.

outwest

As soon as I get 25 posts I'm going to get those caps bennies.

Do you think it's a big deal if I substitute roots organic with fox farm ocean forest? It's just that I have a bag of ffof already.
 
outwest

outwest

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Not at all. I made two batches one with 2 bags of roots, one with 1 roots and one happy frog, like you that's what I had. Plants didn't complain.

outwest
 
odogodo

odogodo

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Cool. Sounds like I'm pretty much ready to start on a new batch of soil. I've got four plants vegging in 3 gal. pots and am planning to flower them in those same pots, so they don't need soil. Just waiting on the clones to root. I'll try to buy a camera tonight for sharing pics of them (I recently ditched my smart phone which I used as a camera.) Thanks!
 
outwest

outwest

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Here was how I filled the pots:

1/3 Super Soil (about 2.5 gallons), then I mix about .5 gallon of Roots Organic with the top layer, then filled the rest of the pot with the super soil. (about 3 gallons)

When I started flowering, I topped of with another gallon of super soil. My longer running strain is 2.5 weeks out and not showing a drop of deficiency.

outwest
 
monkeymun

monkeymun

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Here was how I filled the pots:

1/3 Super Soil (about 2.5 gallons), then I mix about .5 gallon of Roots Organic with the top layer, then filled the rest of the pot with the super soil. (about 3 gallons)

When I started flowering, I topped of with another gallon of super soil. My longer running strain is 2.5 weeks out and not showing a drop of deficiency.

outwest


Why do you not make the soil a homogenous mix outwest?
 
outwest

outwest

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It's super hot the roots organic has enough nutes to let the roots grow and get established. By the time they hit the super soil, they are ready for the nute boost.

I find the plants hit that layer, kind of jolt for a second, then really take off. Apparently planting directly in super soil will fry the plants.

outwest
 
slausongardens

slausongardens

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i start seeds and even clones sometimes in a mix of mostly peat moss and a little bit of earthworm castings or compost and about a third perlite. but once they get going theyre gonna need more nutrients, the plant will definitely tell you when they need transplanted.

i used to use light warrior and that shit was terrible, i swear it would fuck up every seed it was used with. they'd get bad deficiencies and turn yellow quick, luckily i'd transplant and the new growth would be good. i havent had this problem since tossing the light warrior and making my own little simple mix. saves a lot of money too.
 
toxichippie

toxichippie

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i used to use light warrior and that shit was terrible, i swear it would fuck up every seed it was used with. they'd get bad deficiencies and turn yellow quick, luckily i'd transplant and the new growth would be good. i havent had this problem since tossing the light warrior and making my own little simple mix. saves a lot of money too.

im tossing light warrior also. it didnt fare too well this run for me. but that goes for all fox farm soil...not what it used to be
 
slausongardens

slausongardens

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yeah i dont think ill ever buy a soil from fox farm again. too many bad experiences. although i still use their all purpose peace of mind fertilizer product with good results.. but i dont even like supporting them, might change that one out too hahaa.

thats why i dont like moonshine mans soil mix. looks like he was paid by fox farm to make that soil mix and promote it. one of the main reasons of making your own soil is to save money and his soil mix costs over $100. its actually not even really a soil mix. its just combining different soils haha. u can start from scratch with peat moss, ewc, compost, perlite and some amendments for about $6 a cubic foot. and i would think it would be better then anything fox farm has.
 
odogodo

odogodo

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yeah i dont think ill ever buy a soil from fox farm again. too many bad experiences. although i still use their all purpose peace of mind fertilizer product with good results.. but i dont even like supporting them, might change that one out too hahaa.

thats why i dont like moonshine mans soil mix. looks like he was paid by fox farm to make that soil mix and promote it. one of the main reasons of making your own soil is to save money and his soil mix costs over $100. its actually not even really a soil mix. its just combining different soils haha. u can start from scratch with peat moss, ewc, compost, perlite and some amendments for about $6 a cubic foot. and i would think it would be better then anything fox farm has.


That sounds like a good idea. I think I'll go that route after I use up my ffof and light warrior. Right now I have been having a hard time getting pineapple express clones to root. Maybe a "home" mix will work better than fflw. I'd rather do things myself from scratch anyway.
 
C

Canvas

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It's super hot the roots organic has enough nutes to let the roots grow and get established. By the time they hit the super soil, they are ready for the nute boost.

I find the plants hit that layer, kind of jolt for a second, then really take off. Apparently planting directly in super soil will fry the plants.

outwest

I fried my plants.

At least two whole crops started from seed had to be thrown out and restarted, the plants were burning from the bottom up, new growth would appear, and the lowers would die off way to fast.
The leaves were clawed and ugly the whole time. This was a few years ago, I have begun to wise up about nuts since then.

The soil was done up similarly to the Subcool soil, I got the outline of the recipie from Soma's book. ( Which is a very good book BTW, best photos and description of supercropping ever. )

The outline of all 'soil mixes' seems to be this:

A whole lot of Coco, or Peat Moss, take your pick. Or, both. Keep in mind these are hydroponic mediums.
Way too much bat guano for phosphorus, or nitrogen, or use both.
Way too much chickenshit.
Way too much bullshit.
Dolomite Lime. Can be of any type, really, it's Cal/Mag in solid form. Use too much.
Greensand/Azomite/some other rare type earth to add in micronuts.
Way too much worm castings.
Kelp/Yukka/Humus, which are in practially all dry nut mix products.
Biologicals.

The main problem these mixes can create, is an very bad overnut condition that results in a lot of wasted money, lost time, and a lost crop.
While mixing this stuff up, a few thoughts crossed my mind:

This much stuff, if it were put in water, and solubleized thereby, were to be used to water the hydroponic medium, it would surely kill the plants. In fact, it did.
The base medium is really just hydro, I am only adding the nuts to the mix now, at the start, instead of watering them in.
That I am following the directions, because that's what they say, and I don't really get why they use this much stuff.
Nor do I have any idea how it does not kill their plants. Perhaps they have some other undocumented habit, or I overlooked some key aspect of the grow directions.

I had the feeling then, quite vindicated now, that adding so much dry nuts to a hydroponic base will form a toxic concentration of nuts.
When my plants did grow, after much flushing, they looked like this guys:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/help-plants-are-looking-awful.45875/

The deal is this, not every grower can afford to throw money around, and us newbs ( though I am much less so by now ) need failsafe and *frugal* advice.

Having fried my plants a few times over, I am now only flushing the medium out, and cutting it with fresh coco to reduce the nut concentration back to a resonable level.
These days, I only add a little oystershell to the coco, some dolomite, about a tablespoon per 5 gals.
Same for any nut addition, figure it works like hydro, because with that much peatmoss or coco it is, and a tablespoon per 5 gals is about right for a strong mix, were it to be all water.

Sorry for the Opus, this has been on my mind for days now.

Peace,
Canvas
 
slausongardens

slausongardens

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^^^ yes you did overlook some key aspects of the grow directions... these are not mixes for clones or seeds or young plants. they are mixes for grown plants. you should grow your clones in just a mix of peat moss, ewc, and perlite and when they get some growth transplant into the super soil mixes. they are way too hot for clones and young plants and will surely cook them to death.

also are you letting the soil cook for 30 days??? you have to let the nutrients cycle and break down properly and get the ph correct and whatever else it does but it is definitely a must. if you do not cook the soil, you will surely fry your plants.

ive ran some very hot soil mixes and the plants were healthy, ive recently cut back on the strength of a lot of the amendments and they love it but still very hot. never had a problem frying a plant although sometimes if i put 50 plants in the soil, 2 or 3 wont respond properly but i always figure something else went wrong there.

do you mean nutes when you say nuts?
 
C

Canvas

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First, thanks for responding, I had to get that off my chest.

nuts/nutes, I was put off by this abbreviation when I first encountered it.

Basically, my conclusion is going to be that all the soil mixes are basicly ok, but most are way too hot, even after cooking down, and even for larger established plants.
Please keep in mind that most growers will have to substitute something in any recipie, as we can only use stuff we can source. Also, the quality of natural ingredients can vary, often quite a bit.
To keep a long story short, less is more. Hard lesson, learned a few times over, a few different ways.

Having followed the basic pattern for a soil mix, what ever I put in, was too much.
I still use that same dirt, only now it has been cut and flushed a few times over, and only the most minimal supplementation is needed now.

For someone starting out, I would reccomend finding a way to reuse the money that you already spent, use less than what is reccomended, and try to grow a radish in it first.
Not kidding about the sacrificial radish, they are edibly mature in 3-4 weeks. Much cheaper than frying expensive canna seeds.
 
slausongardens

slausongardens

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the radish thing is a good idea.

i dont think these soil mixes use nearly as many nutes as you would hitting it with bottled nutes. ive always thought they were light and if they are too hot you can always just cut back on the amounts like 2 cups instead of 5 or what not... or cut it with an organic bagged soil or just peat moss.

i dont know, i love the idea of these super soils and just adding water and have had amazing results so far. and making the soil and trying new things never gets old to me. its very entertaining.
 
Mogrow

Mogrow

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the radish thing is a good idea.

i dont think these soil mixes use nearly as many nutes as you would hitting it with bottled nutes. ive always thought they were light and if they are too hot you can always just cut back on the amounts like 2 cups instead of 5 or what not... or cut it with an organic bagged soil or just peat moss.

i dont know, i love the idea of these super soils and just adding water and have had amazing results so far. and making the soil and trying new things never gets old to me. its very entertaining.


im with you on that slausongardens "trust your soil". get to know soil, jack around with it, add a little something extra.. i just built a nice batch, we have a great base soil here we buy from the local nursery, has your coir, moss, perlite, you could grow a nice plant in it, but i like to spice it up,, i spiced it up so much this time i thought it was going to burn my hand off when i dug into it to get a feel for it, damnn it was hot, like a bale of hay that was bailed too green... but it cooked off and is lookin and smelling good, will cut it with the used soil and be ready to rock 'em... i also use local soil from the creek bottoms, full of life, kinda makes the mix a little gummy but still has all that humates in it, gotta get some more. i love the soil.. In Soil I Trust..
 
M

mjmen

2
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I just buy soil at wallmart and mix it with FormulaFlora, a fertilizer for each step of growing, start, grow,bloom and boost. Great shit!
 
outwest

outwest

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First, thanks for responding, I had to get that off my chest.

nuts/nutes, I was put off by this abbreviation when I first encountered it.

Basically, my conclusion is going to be that all the soil mixes are basicly ok, but most are way too hot, even after cooking down, and even for larger established plants.
Please keep in mind that most growers will have to substitute something in any recipie, as we can only use stuff we can source. Also, the quality of natural ingredients can vary, often quite a bit.
To keep a long story short, less is more. Hard lesson, learned a few times over, a few different ways.

Having followed the basic pattern for a soil mix, what ever I put in, was too much.
I still use that same dirt, only now it has been cut and flushed a few times over, and only the most minimal supplementation is needed now.

For someone starting out, I would reccomend finding a way to reuse the money that you already spent, use less than what is reccomended, and try to grow a radish in it first.
Not kidding about the sacrificial radish, they are edibly mature in 3-4 weeks. Much cheaper than frying expensive canna seeds.


FWIW, I followed SubCool's soil directions to a T and and my garden never looked better. My only thought is that if you are frying your plants, you might be doing something wrong.

outwest
 
Dirty White Boy

Dirty White Boy

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Boiling coco.....you've gotta be Fucking with me. Lmfao, ok. For the most part there is no wrong mix as long as you don't make it too hot. I have friend who grows with grocery store bought soil adds a little green sand and only uses liquid seaweed and molasses kills it.
 

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