Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

[Resinable]

Funny, I was just reading that coir article at Manicbotanix the other day. It is a very worthwhile read; be interested to see if they ever start selling the products they talk about there.

 

[420bliss]

Funny, I was just reading that coir article at Manicbotanix the other day. It is a very worthwhile read; be interested to see if they ever start selling the products they talk about there.

looks like they used to, now it says store closed when you go to the site,

page as it appeared on May 13, 2012 19:25:19 GMT​

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q9Ma64b4GgQJ:www.manicbotanix.com/shop/premixes/ &cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Carl Sagan]

lets get the discussion goin' again!

so, Cannazym at 0-2-1 is used in conjunction with A+B like... 90% of the time, and at equal parts (ex: 7mL A, 7mL B, 7mL cannazym).. yet it gets left out of the overall equation when people talk about canna coco A+B as a coco nutrient.

when I see analyses of the NPK ppms in canna coco A+B as compared to other nutrient lines, cannazym is rarely factored in despite canna's recommendation to use it throughout your grow. people are then inquisitive about low P and even K levels (despite coco's behavior with K and S) when looking at JUST the A+B components, and for good reason.

What are the total PPMs of canna coco A+B+cannazym, dewds? I'd do the equation myself but I've yet to see it posted in the thread. If anyone can help me out with figuring PPMs from the back of nutrient bottles, i'd love to hear it. Hope yer all enjoyin' spring!

 

[kushtrees]

Next time at the hydro store and can look at the weight of the nutrient I'll let you know. If you have the info then I'll do it any Anytime. I wouldn't calculate cannazymes effect on NPK without its weight tho because it might be very very low and not contribute anything significant. If its just an enzyme it shouldnt have a NPK, or at least not one that makes a difference

 

[Resinable]

Carl Sagan,

My opinion as someone who has used a lot of different zymes and in so doing flushed money down the toilet: supplemental enzymes are not needed a healthy plant will produce exactly the enzymes it needs, I've done the side by sides and talked with two different PHDs about this. Enzymes = rippoff

If anything an ACT teas will probably promote and stimulate far more enzyme production than you could ever buy.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

no to cannazyme......

lots going on and a lot of research is coming to a head in my grow...been testing out different ratio's to make certain things deficient.....

I will say I have come to a huge realization about all calcium/magnesium products on the market. They are all marketed purely towards marijuana growers who follow anyone's instructions with blind faith.

1 ml of calimagic which is
nitrogen.....1
calcium......5
mag...........1.5
iron........... .1

should only come out to roughly 21ppm....yet this is not accurate...it comes out at nearly 75 ppm's......

how could this be........well here we go......
The standard of 150 ppm of calmag to start in r/o water is one that has so many issues behind it, it really isn't even funny.

If you were to actually start with 150 ppm of a pure cal/mag solution 100ppm of that solution would be calcium.....again this is not accurate.

What I am finding is that 1 ml per gallon of calimagic is only 13.2 ppm of calcium, not the nearly 50 I had originally though based on my calculation of 1ml=75 ppm....

SOMEONE PLEASE CHIME IN ....lets get this figured out....

Anyways I got really frustrated and went and got a bottle of techniflora magical which is a
nitrogen......2
calcium.......3.25
mag.............1.25
iron............. .11

added 3 ml to a gal, which came in at 170ppm!!! how can this be....... should only be around 53ppm

Seems to me that we are being fooled into a blind faith method of growing where people say this many ml of this or this many ppm of that and we all take it for word and don't ask why it works. 4ml per gallon of calmag never made any sense till I did the math and realized that 70% is some saline content.

1ml per gallon = 75 ppm
which is
nitrogen 2.6 ppm
calcium 13.2 ppm
mag........ 3.9 ppm
so what is the other 5osomething ppms?

 

[deep buddy]

imho, i use the cal mag products more for the coco than the plant, basically not out of blind faith, but just so i know its there. if it were expensive then maybe i would worry more but i dont.

i have been using mgso4 and a micro sup called mineral matrix, it has around 3% cal listed. this is working well so far. fwiw.

 

[dankworth]

no to cannazyme......

lots going on and a lot of research is coming to a head in my grow...been testing out different ratio's to make certain things deficient.....

I will say I have come to a huge realization about all calcium/magnesium products on the market. They are all marketed purely towards marijuana growers who follow anyone's instructions with blind faith.

1 ml of calimagic which is
nitrogen.....1
calcium......5
mag...........1.5
iron........... .1

should only come out to roughly 21ppm....yet this is not accurate...it comes out at nearly 75 ppm's......

how could this be........well here we go......
The standard of 150 ppm of calmag to start in r/o water is one that has so many issues behind it, it really isn't even funny.

If you were to actually start with 150 ppm of a pure cal/mag solution 100ppm of that solution would be calcium.....again this is not accurate.

What I am finding is that 1 ml per gallon of calimagic is only 13.2 ppm of calcium, not the nearly 50 I had originally though based on my calculation of 1ml=75 ppm....

SOMEONE PLEASE CHIME IN ....lets get this figured out....

Anyways I got really frustrated and went and got a bottle of techniflora magical which is a
nitrogen......2
calcium.......3.25
mag.............1.25
iron............. .11

added 3 ml to a gal, which came in at 170ppm!!! how can this be....... should only be around 53ppm

Seems to me that we are being fooled into a blind faith method of growing where people say this many ml of this or this many ppm of that and we all take it for word and don't ask why it works. 4ml per gallon of calmag never made any sense till I did the math and realized that 70% is some saline content.

1ml per gallon = 75 ppm
which is
nitrogen 2.6 ppm
calcium 13.2 ppm
mag........ 3.9 ppm
so what is the other 5osomething ppms?

(copied and pasted from the "cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients")
ttystikk, I think you only need to know the ppm conversion factor when you're talking about a commonly used ppm meter reading. We're calculating the hard ppm of elements in solution, there isn't really a correlation between the numbers we figure out and a ppm meter reading. For example, you can't come up with a profile of 150N, 50P, 200K etc., calculate the ppms of all elements, mix up the salts in a solution and say "well then my hanna meter should read whatever all those ppms add up to.". As you might already know the common ppm meters are only EC meters that use one of a couple conversion factors(sodium or NaCl and others) to display ppm and since different elements and molecules contribute differently to the overall EC, theres no real way to accurately convert between the two that I know of. There may be some crazy math you could do, but I don't know anything about it.

The molar mass of MgSO4 is about 120u (all and the elemental percentage breakdown is Mg=20.1922%, S=26.6395%, O=53.1683%. You really need to know the mass (weight) of MgSO4 and the exact volume of water you're going to dissolve it in to figure out ppm. If you put one gram of MgSO4 in one liter of water you will have 201.922ppm of Mg, 266.395ppm of S and 531.683ppm of O. Remember ppm in water is the same as mg/L. Also to tie in the above, if you did put one gram of MgSO4 in a liter of water your Hanna meter would not read 1000ppm but you would still have the listed elemental ppms in solution. And not to jumble things up too bad, maybe someone else can help clarify, but I think when you mix MgSO4 in water it picks up 7 H2O molecules to become the hydrate form of the salt. What I'm not sure about is whether or not to include those extra H and O atoms into the calculations or not and also if all salts have something like that when dissolved. I just assume that most other salts simply break into their respective elements upon solution. If someone could help clear that up or offer an other input I'd appreciate it.

Edit- You just have to find a ratio of elemental ppms to copy. Then, once you have the salts calculated to hit those ratios, then dilute to whatever strength you want.
I show how to calculate the salts for a given set of ppm values you want in page 1 of my flowering thread.
I had to get out the notebook and lots of coffee and bowls and spend several nights taking hella notes to get this shit all figured out.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

mixing my own salts sounds more and more appealing every day.

Either way the madness that seems to drive me crazy is actually kind of fun and interesting.
I feel like I'm right on the edge of having canna perfectly dialed in.

 

[Carl Sagan]

dankworth, I'm currently sippin' on some of Boulder's finest coffee at the moment, and smoking Boulder's finest ganj. i've got my own notebook(s) filled with all this stuff as well. a lot of it is under a section called "WISDOM".

another tip that i wrote down recently, which was probably from one of you guys, was foliar spraying Ca25, as the plant as a hard time getting Ca from the roots to the apical meristem. genius!

Either way the madness that seems to drive me crazy is actually kind of fun and interesting.
I feel like I'm right on the edge of having canna perfectly dialed in.

Hell yeah! I'm trying to lock down a new commercial grow position and mixing my own salts is a pretty large selling point of mine as a way to cut budget. As I'm sure you can imagine, investors hate seeing the hydro store bill after a nute run of canna shit. $$$$$$$$$$$$

thank you, dwd, resinable, deepbuddy, kushtrees, and all others for contributing! i've been trying to master my own path with canna coco and this is exactly the kind of discussion that'll take us there.

 

[DowNwithDirT]

nice....good luck with your venture carl....
didn't realize your in my stompin grounds.

any time ya feel like shooting shit and havin a puff hit me up...

 

[cemchris]

I have found that adding calmg is not needed. I have completely cut it out of my reg and have found that almost all the nutes I use have plenty. Still havent seen a cal or mg issue. At one point I was running 10 ml's of calmg+. Bet my plants hated me.

I tried the 200 ppm feeding in veg. My plants almost died after 2 weeks. I have ran 400-600 for a while now but never go over that. Are you feeding 200 ppm every watering?

 

[DowNwithDirT]

I have found that adding calmg is not needed. I have completely cut it out of my reg and have found that almost all the nutes I use have plenty. Still havent seen a cal or mg issue. At one point I was running 10 ml's of calmg+. Bet my plants hated me.

I tried the 200 ppm feeding in veg. My plants almost died after 2 weeks. I have ran 400-600 for a while now but never go over that. Are you feeding 200 ppm every watering?

what kind of lighting were the plants under that got 200ppm....what do you mean almost died...please elaborate? I have noticed that it takes over a week to get things adjusted to any change I make, and some times get worse before getting better......in coco? and what nutes?

10 ml's of cal mag...thats absurd...how many ppm were you feeding at?

the 200ish ppm number is def for lower lighting situation like t5 racks.
I feed the same amount every watering and haven't had such vigorous, juicy stalks in so long its crazy. The plants grow so well that they show different characteristics in growth I almost never see. I have 10 strains running on the same thing....from pre 98 to ghost og to a flo cut.....all withing total reason.

 

[cemchris]

By die I mean sever yellowing to the point the leaves started falling off. When I bumped back to around 500 they green'd back up over about 5 days. Still don't use any calmg. I do foliar with it the first week of flower though.

Canna with CNS17 for veg FNB for flower. I feed with nutes then feed with bio marine, fox farm mycro and Floralicious +. Lighting is a 600 and 4 T5 4fters.

 

[ogtealover420]

Another excellent point. When I've used coco, I watered to runoff. Sometimes to much sometimes to little, sometimes just right.

Below is a photo of a pansy I grew in coco. Gorgeous. Just gorgeous.

outwest

View attachment 218662

a freaking pansy?????? Mr.Wells would turn in his grave.

 

[ogtealover420]

hey guys, bottle NPK shows N, P2O5, and K20.
P2O5 is 43.6% P.
K2O is 83% K.
Bottle NPK is rounded like a motherfucker.

Case in point- CNS-17 3-1-2 is hella rounded off, it is far closer to a 4-1-3 when you look at actual ppms. Most jug nutes will not list exact ppms on the back, but that does.

If the true ratios are, in fact 5-4-3, that means that true elemental ppm ratios are like 5-1.744-2.5.
We should be mindful of the fact that P kills off bennies starting at 50 ppms according to what Cap was told. So we have to be careful in that regard.

Hope this is useful.

50 ppm P kills bennies? What about organic P still killing the bennies?

 

[dankworth]

50 ppm P kills bennies? What about organic P still killing the bennies?

Dude I personally wondered a lot about that. Even asked that same question in a private forum looking for a solid answer. No answer. No idea. Really really would like to know without having to spend hours nerding out on that. Don't have hours to spend on q's like that anymore.

 

[El Cerebro]

50 ppm P kills bennies? What about organic P still killing the bennies?

yeah I'm not buying it either til i see some evidence either way. just keep brewing crobe-tea and throw a billion or so extra warriors at the problem every week, that's my solution whether there's a problem or not.

 

[ogtealover420]

Right? I mean I se guano with 10% P to make my teas and they are jsut teaming with goodness. I heard that about a certain percentage of P killing myco's but that if you have low P myco's will utilize the low amount of P. So who really knows? I mean you would need a doctors in biology or some sish just to really know.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Dude I personally wondered a lot about that. Even asked that same question in a private forum looking for a solid answer. No answer. No idea. Really really would like to know without having to spend hours nerding out on that. Don't have hours to spend on q's like that anymore.

tell me about it.

recently took over a 24-light MMJ warehouse solo and i've barely got time to shit ;)