Seriously Over This =[

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Capulator

Capulator

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If that big fan is blowing directly on your plants, turn it off. Plants hate direct air. If they dry out at the base all the wind will fuck them up even more. To me it looks like that a bit. Plants got too dry. If you are in coco never let it go dry. That will cause lockout and make things worse.

No need to go above 1.8EC ever. For veg stay around 1.0 and max at 1.8 week 5 of flower when plants are usually drinking and consuming the most. Just go back to base only with the teas, and keep your pH fluctuating between 5.2 and 6.3. For example, on Monday water to run off at 5.2. On Wednesday before the plants are dry water at 5.8. Next time 6.3, then next time after that do a flush using only the tea (biowar/molasses,EWC ONLY).

Tea can be used 1 part tea to 10 parts water.
 
MrBelvedere

MrBelvedere

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dude these are awesome replys i really, really appreciate it!
and definitely feel better about my situation! none of this is taken the wrong way or personally as i know it has to be some sort of user error on my part.

im sorry i posted and disappeared, i just started a new job AND college again after tens years out of school, i have a lot on my hands =] taking plant science courses and its pretty exciting.

I need to take more pictures for you guys. i have some close ups of some leaves and other spots to show deficiencies....



they eventually did perk up a bit, but its weird... some perked up more than others, like half of my favorite plant is droopy, so im happy, but my main mother, my prized platinum cookies still looks badddd. i dont believe they were dry to long, and usually if they are, they perk up after a couple hours... so this was weird to see them droopy for a day and a half.
I transplanted the gsc mom,from 5 gallon bucket to a 10(? could be 18) gallon tub, only till she's healthy so i can take cuts. she wasn't totally root bound, but roots weren't super healthy on the outside. like half the coco broke off and i lost some roots (doesn't seem to be an issue yet as its been a couple days and part of the plant is perky) but could see a lot of new pearly whites coming in.

and i seriously dont understand how you can water every day and get good results, thats like going against the grain of plant care...
I definitely saw more results by lifting the pots and feeling the weight to see when i should water... as opposed to watering everyday. so this is one thing im confused about, and believe this could very well possibly be trolling. im open minded to the fact that it isn't, but my own experience speaks differently.

also, i was doing the maxi bloom method of kiss, with calmag, and again just simply logic after seeing my plants told me thats not ok either, its a flowering nutrient, not a veg...

and third! =p
im seeing better results from the teas and foliar calmag than i had before! a lot more green new growth instead of my hideous red stems. so im quite surprised to see that some one mentioned teas aren't enough to feed in coco.

my real concern is that its an active, organic based brew that could turn sour in the medium. a guy at one of my hydro shops was trying to tell me that the teas can only be in coco of a day before problems arise and then you need to flush it out. to be honest it sounded like bs to me so i ignored it, but i always wonder the truth behind the words.

I brew whole alfalfa(not chopped, not meal, not granules or whatever other form, i got it at pets mart =p) for about three days(i read it takes 3 to 5 days for it to be good), i then add a little kelp and ewc with caps bennies and molasses, sometimes fish emulsion. ill then brew it for another 18-48 hours and than foliar with that and feed with that.

room temps are 70-85 in the day, and 60-70 at night, rh is usually 50-60 but ive seen it up to 70 after watering/foliar feeding. no co2, and only feed teas at this point.


used the go box, wasn't satisfied, again could be my fault...
would bubbling the general organics be a bad idea? whats your guys take on the cal mag nute they have? worth it? or should i stick with a synthetic version..?

i have so many chems/salts i haven't even used =[[[[


I have some pretty great genetics, i got a small "ok" harvest from them so i do know first hand, Some delicious platinum cookies, and quite possibly my new favorite, "pre91" Chemdog.
ive also seen growers better than me flower these exact genes and all i can say is WOW.


those soil grows that i did well with were years ago,
there was a 2-3 year hiatus where i had no plants and just read stuff alllll over the internet and talked to different growers, ultimately deciding bigtokes bio buckets at ic mag was my method of preference (the allure of simplicity, not having to ph, and ridiculous yields was what i was after) which didnt go well for me,(guess i wasn't ready =p) and im still hoping to try something like that again in the future, so i decided to try coco as its described as being very good for beginners and somewhat forgiving, avoiding dirt because "pests come with dirt" but thats obviously not an issue isolated to soil. ive read all kinds of people getting pest from new bricks of coco.

i will be honest with you guys, cuz i do really want help. i do feel i could dedicate more time to the grow room. sometimes i feel kinda lazy. sometimes the room could be a bit cleaner too. but im trying not to play with them too much so that i dont mess them up. trying to keep it simple, as my complicated hydro really made me wanna simplify the process. i do check in on them everyday tho, seeing how wet/dry they are, and i foliar calmag 5-7 times a week

Im really starting to see why fully organic soil is the way to go after all of this, but to be honest i can't invest in any dirt or amendments right now other than what i have, so i need to keep up the coco for a bit longer. =[


its really good to hear the happy frog is good enough just to give water for a short period of time, its what i want to go for when i can. but i was planning on cooking a super soil like mix, ive read across the net that subcools mix is only "ok" so i plan on doing something different, or maybe not at all since i wanna stay simple ;]


i reallllyyy feel like im forgetting to explain something here... ill post pics off my phone a little later i need to eat lol


Hi gliders how's it goin?
 
gliders420

gliders420

108
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its going,schools kicking my ass, and im gonna be moving at the end of the month! you?

im getting different responses from every plant really

my large cookies is doing stuff. its definitely growing, but the stem is red as total fuck, and the main stalk is definitely brown, I dont know if mothers stay totally green main stalk and all... the "purpling" on the couple leaves got deeper, but not in a good way, its all curled and fucked. it has a hard time holding itself up still. will plants gradually lay down if i foliar too much? i thought they were supposed to stay standing up... i have a bunch of sideways branches.... all the tops look good, but what is now the bottom of the leafs are affected by whatever... i can't quite make anything of it. starting to think maybe broads... but other plants look wayyy better...nor can i find them with my bud scope 60x-100x...i do find shiny round things on the underside, but never any mites and its very hard to find those shiny bits... i can't pin the leaf appearance to any specific deficiency... maybe calcium?? its burnt all around the leafs edges on some, on others is different

my small cookies that being scroged looks great! very green all over it, although the growing tips are kinda pale... and im slowly seeing some red on the petiole, and a little on the stem... some leafs have a curve...not a twist not a curl.. like a banana on some of the fingers

my gdp is really stating to come back, its the only one that really prays to the light.... mostly all green except the bottom of the main stem, which is brown but im ok with this one as obviously its old..

the chemdag, definitely bouncing back!!! but it has a deep clawing to the leaf, one plant is kinda pale, the other veryyy dark with pale growing tips....

plants are also starting to drink more! yay! just what i wanted, more waterings!!! =[
but seriously i do like that cuz it shows me they are growing.... but i reallllly dont wanna transplant out of these buckets.. id rather get em back so i can clone and put them in dirt.... can i just clone now? or should i wait some more....

ill def post pics as im sure thats all bs to read through....


also someone asked how old the light was...definitly been used for about a year strait, so im definitely going to replace it and move to a 600 watt... but i may not even have the opportunity for that,, i moved the ballasts to a new place lol and when i do move there i eventually would like to put them under a couple 8 or 12 t5 bad boy fixtures that i have. so cloning would be preferred as 3 of 5 are


Honestly I don't think organic teas and calmag foliage is nearly enough to feed plants in coco. Easiest thing to do in coco is heads method. Amending soil isn't overly complicated unless ur amendments are out of whack. I think the easiest way to grow dank shit is soil and feed General organics. Its almost can't miss. Soil of ur choice couple handfuls puerile couple handfuls extra worm castings some oyster shell flour at 1 tbls per gallon and follow the directions on the go box. Water once with notes once with plain water or casting tea and ur growing some dank. On the flip side why not just go back to what was working. I realize people c what cap or makin goo or other beasts on here and want to emulate them. I respect that but anytime u try and follow this book or that guy it leads u into trouble. Find what works for u and do that. Can't do what guy A does unless u can recreate everything in his room. U get the point I think. Don't quit bro just keep it simple. Good luck and positive vibes to u man!

hey man my bad, i just kinda dismissed all the good stuff in here after i read the teas aren't enough.
between you and cap it sounds like i should apply some sort of base nutes either with my teas or alternate with my teas. i have the three liquid gh bottles, as well as a bunch of maxi bloom...so according to this quote my better bet is making heads mix over maxi bloom? the guy at my hydro shop said i should just do what the gh bottles say but like half or 1/3 strength as opposed to any type of kiss/lucas formula...

@Capulator i had no idea a direct breeze was bad, the fans were oscillating and i thought tha was good, they are now just pointing one way, one on opposite corners and there is a lot of air movement still...kinda like a vortex effect i guess lol

time to get/post pics
 
MrBelvedere

MrBelvedere

707
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i m hanging in there. @gliders420 glad they are doing better. Can you take some pics of the flopping plant? It may just have weak root system and needs to be propped up with bamboo or coat hanger or something. and all the leaf issues? Can we see them? And picture of each plant from side view and top view. then we can get them perfect.

If they are in veg stage then yes you can clone them now, as long as the bottom branches are healthy, we can see that when u post the pics. Thx

thx glad ur back!
 
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gliders420

gliders420

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lol top view is going to be fun, i took some close ups of some leaves and some side views, just have yet to post them.

and i definitely use bamboo for a lot of branches lol
 
gliders420

gliders420

108
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pictures 1-10 of my other post is the large gsc plant, the rest are pics of my healthy gsc plant plant....

and its really ok to clone off the gsc with all those colored leaves? i won't ruin my genetics??
first pic in this post is the weird bending/curling/folding of Chemdog leaves
second pic is overall setup/ cleaned room...

third pic is the discoloration of the Chemdog tops, last on is the clawing of leaves on Chemdog as well
 
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3G Labs

3G Labs

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It see new growth, the bright green. Is that their sun? If your only using that bulb to grow with i think thats your main problem, not enough lumens.
I think i still see signs of overwatering, the droopyness with dark green leavesor maybe its too much foliar spray too often.
 
HiGro

HiGro

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I agree with 3G, looks like overwatering and not enough lum's!

Add some light and yes less feeding, too much love and care will smother them out.

I don't really see clawing as much as I do droopiness cause by over/under watering.

And I would get that fan osculating and moving air over them plants IMO. I usually put my seedlings or good rooted cuttings through "Boot Camp" when their small, that means i have a fan blowing directly on them for a week, then let it osculate over them, Results are a nice thick stalk and branches.

Happy Growing!:D
 
gliders420

gliders420

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i could agree with a potential under watering as its in coco and i do let them get a bit dry, but its rare that they actually go droopy.

i have lost a lot of plants to over/under watering and the clawing of those leaves looks nothing like the droopiness of over/under watering... which in my experience the petiole sag/sdroops/points downward as well... in this case the petiole is almost straight out, and the leaves are like upside canoes.... each finger... look at pic 3 from post #48

im open to feeding less for sure! the run off is super dark when clear water goes in....and the leaves on the clawing plants are really dark green...possibly too much N from all my teas...? i have no idea lol
 
juniper

juniper

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the chemdag, definitely bouncing back!!! but it has a deep clawing to the leaf, one plant is kinda pale, the other veryyy dark with pale growing tips....
.............i have the three liquid gh bottles, as well as a bunch of maxi bloom...so according to this quote my better bet is making heads mix over maxi bloom? the guy at my hydro shop said i should just do what the gh bottles say but like half or 1/3 strength as opposed to any type of kiss/lucas formula...

Dark leaves, clawing, brown spots...I had the same problems when my pH was in the lower 5's. how are you testing pH? The drops don't lie...check your runoff religiously.

For what it's worth, I have great luck with the Maxi series at 1 tsp./gallon. H3ad formula 6/9 should do fine. I use tapwater for the extra minerals with my nutrient solution.

With respect to growing, it pays to do everything by the book 100%, at first. Follow a proven method to the "T". Then branch out. Make sure to not take any shortcuts, 1/2 measures, or substitutions.
 
gliders420

gliders420

108
43
Dark leaves, clawing, brown spots...I had the same problems when my pH was in the lower 5's. how are you testing pH? The drops don't lie...check your runoff religiously.

For what it's worth, I have great luck with the Maxi series at 1 tsp./gallon. H3ad formula 6/9 should do fine. I use tapwater for the extra minerals with my nutrient solution.

With respect to growing, it pays to do everything by the book 100%, at first. Follow a proven method to the "T". Then branch out. Make sure to not take any shortcuts, 1/2 measures, or substitutions.


Somthing I've been thinking, it came high, and I flushed hundreds of gallons through it, and no change... In coco.... I have a blue lab tri meter that I calibrate all the time.


Will my clones ever be as dank as before? I just hacked everything down, starting fresh in dirt at a new placeC which you guys will really like the new setup. Getting a second room and more spaceeeeeeeeee
 
MrBelvedere

MrBelvedere

707
143
At your new place try using 50/50 perlite/vermiculite for some of your plants, that way you can see if the medium was causing the problem. The p/v is definetley ph neutral and sterile and a "known good" baseline medium. If you use dirt, realize it may be more difficult than coco was. Also consider using organic Earth Juice for ferts for some of the plants. Or any organic fert line, it is so much more forgiving and easier than synthetics. Cool u got a new place, start lots of clones with diff strains so you can fill it out :) The genetics won't change on your clones btw
 
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juniper

juniper

247
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At your new place try using 50/50 perlite/vermiculite for some of your plants, that way you can see if the medium was causing the problem. The p/v is definetley ph neutral and sterile and a "known good" baseline medium.

Perlite is not pH neutral, nor is vermiculite. pH can vary, though they are generally mildly alkaline. Buffers my nutrient solution to about 7.5 out of the bag, which isn't terrible. Vermiculite is usually slightly more alkaline than perlite.

Perlite's composition varies by source and even within the source. Vermiculite is the same way. Differing values of carbonates and such. I've used several brands of perlite and vermiculite and every bag was at least mildly alkaline.

Mix 20% perlite with something else and you won't notice it being alkaline. Run 100% perlite hempy buckets, and it rapidly manifests itself.

50/50 vermiculite/perlite is too much vermiculite. You'll be happier with 25/75.

You are absolutely right though, perlite/vermiculite is a tried and true standard that works pretty much every time. I use it.
 
B

Beans

25
3
If that big fan is blowing directly on your plants, turn it off. Plants hate direct air. If they dry out at the base all the wind will fuck them up even more. To me it looks like that a bit. Plants got too dry. If you are in coco never let it go dry. That will cause lockout and make things worse.

No need to go above 1.8EC ever. For veg stay around 1.0 and max at 1.8 week 5 of flower when plants are usually drinking and consuming the most. Just go back to base only with the teas, and keep your pH fluctuating between 5.2 and 6.3. For example, on Monday water to run off at 5.2. On Wednesday before the plants are dry water at 5.8. Next time 6.3, then next time after that do a flush using only the tea (biowar/molasses,EWC ONLY).

Tea can be used 1 part tea to 10 parts water.
 
B

Beans

25
3
Just like others have said, depends. Fans beat the daylight outta my plants day and night, just like outdoors. No bug problems, no need for special additives like biowar, this dude lacks light for the soil pounding he's giving them. Plants love airflow. Fresh, new , clean , airflow. Bad indoor bugs hate it. And organic soilless plants should never be dry. Damp...not dry. Dry kills the good stuff and you start from scratch with biology next time you water.

Dude, don't over think it. It's a plant. Like I said in another post, learn how to grow cheap herbs or other plants under the same parameters...400 watts aint even close to sunlight for the nutes you're poundin em with. I think the soil/ water response was spot on for your light situation...if you got good shit from last harvest don't try to overproduce something you cant
 
rubthe nub

rubthe nub

775
143
An observation I made.
How many holes did you drill in the bottom of those 5 gallon buckets? It looks like most of your plants are in 5's.
I've seen more problems with 5 gal buckets filled with soil then I have good results. They don't drain well IMO. Look at the drainage holes in a standard plastic nursery pot for comparison. I discovered very similar problems in another new growers garden. I actually found root rot in the bottom of his buckets.
Another problem with 5's is that rim around the bottom doesn't allow good airflow under the pot which just make the problem worse.

There is a lot of good advice given here but sometimes it's just something simple:cool:
Good luck
 
bigjay420

bigjay420

501
143
The answers u seek are in super soil. So simple a monkey (or me) could do it. Google "Subcool's Super Soil." Learn to mix your soil per the recipe, and there's not many ways to fuck your grow up afterwards. No feeding. Just water. Literally just don't set those bitches on fire and you're good.Plus its organic. So after using it, you can feel good about the environment and shit... :/
 

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