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(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

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(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

squarepusher 950 Replies 585,498 Views
Page 41 of 48 · Replies 801–820 of 951
#802
Fresh Starts said:
This is veg formula. I have a bloom formula that I'll post soon


I'm recycling the containers until I upgrade to 15-20 gal opaque containers. This is not CES
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Yeah I kind of figured it was something like that, I was just checking to be sure. Those injectors are pretty nice, how much did those run a piece and do you like those particular ones?
 
#803
FiveAM said:
Yeah I kind of figured it was something like that, I was just checking to be sure. Those injectors are pretty nice, how much did those run a piece and do you like those particular ones?
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The Dema injectors are good so far but and I will have a rounded opinion of them after I've tested their use further. They are about $400 a piece. One of the main things I like about them over Dosatron injectors is that you can easily take them a part and change out seals and gaskets that wear out- which happens often with heavy use. The dosatrons are more cost intensive to upkeep. The Dema injectors seem to be more accurate with higher flow rates (10gpm-20gpm) although they are rated to be effective at low flow rates (down to .08gpm). This mainly effects the concentration of my stock solutions so I can hit my target EC/ profile windows correctly. So I've got some tinkering to do as I dial in the setup. Overall the build quality is rugged and built to last which I'm impressed with.
 
#804
that's alotta' K...and not enuf S imho. plants in flower use more S than Mg..Not alot more but more. My recipe above was raw. Nowadays I run more like 60 to 65 S...100 K
 
#805
skwirlgirl said:
that's alotta' K...and not enuf S imho. plants in flower use more S than Mg..Not alot more but more. My recipe above was raw. Nowadays I run more like 60 to 65 S...100 K
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Sulfur goes up to 52 in flower while Mg stays at 49. I'll post the other flower profile when i get to a computer
 
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#806
skwirlgirl said:
that's alotta' K...and not enuf S imho. plants in flower use more S than Mg..Not alot more but more. My recipe above was raw. Nowadays I run more like 60 to 65 S...100 K
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Surprised that you think that is a lot of k. I have ran it up to 4 or 5 times n and did well. The difference between 140 and 100 seems kind of small.

Crysmatic said:
I'm currently running my "super soil". I just add tap water. ZERO pH concerns, great results. hth
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I must have mixed up a couple thousand five gallon buckets of nutes since this thread started. I have become kind of lazy, scoop of this, half scoop of that. Dont even calculate the ppm's these days. But yes, just add water, that sounds good, and recycle the dirt.

Did you post anywhere about your rockwool grows. I want to try that, cube on a slab kind of thing. recirculating, with the black dot emitters.
 
#807
Substrate Profile
2.11 Nh4
1.62 N03
3.23 P
51.93 K
4.29 Ca
1.63 Mg
5.02 S


The High K in the veg profile posted earlier included the extra 51 Mg/l from the coco substrate and any added minerals from our tap water source up here in the pacific NW. Luckily our water is very soft.

Here is the bloom elemental profile. This includes the above coco substrate profile and water analysis results.

7.2 Nh4
109.5 N03
58.5 P
143.5 K
104.1 Ca
49 Mg
52 S
7.5 Si
 
#808
This might be my favorite thread on the whole farm. I hope you guys keep posting up your profiles...
 
#809
Hi all guys, i joined this forum only for this thread and I’d really like to thank all the experienced growers who contributed in this.

My system is a low pressure aero using SOG and I have used GHE (I’m from Europe) lucas formula with little result until I found out about fatman’s thread and subsequently this thread.

So now I’m going to ditch GH and I’m trying to formulate my nutrients (thanks to the information in this thread).

My intention is to start with fatman’s bloom recirculating formula (thanks fatman!!!) and adapt it to my tap water since I cannot use a RO filter.

Now the big question;

According to AlkCalc the quantity of Phosphoric Acid needed to lower my pH adds the solution around 80 ppm of P (which is fatman’s recommended Phosphorus ppm), my question is, can I substitute Potassium Monobasic Phosphate with Phosphate Acid in the fatman bloom formula???

If I add Phosphoric Acid to the list of substances in Hydrobuddy it says to remove Potassium Monobasic Phosphate, but I am asking you experts, there is any side-effect or any kind of reason for not doing so???

This is my tap water profile:

pH: 7.8

EC: µs/cm 345

Cl (Chloride): 7.7 ppm

Cl (Chloates): 13.9 ppm

S: 5.7 ppm

Ca: 73.7 ppm

Mg: 1.5 ppm

K: 0.6 ppm

CaCO3: 186 ppm

Mn: 0.28 ppm

And the resulting Hidrobuddy ppm report A+B Conc. Fact: 100 Stock Solution: 100 lt (with my tap water profile and Phosphoric Acid instead of Potassium Monobasic Phosphate):

NO3- : 275

NH4+ : 0.026

P : 80

K: 356

Mg: 91

Ca: 281

S: 129

Fe: 10

Zn: 5

Mn: 5

Cu: 1

Mo: 0.09

Cl: 13.9


Please if you have any suggestion, advise, hint or anything would be really appreciated
 
#810
Yes, if your addition of Phosphoric acid supplies all the needed phos ppm, then there is no need for the MKP(potassium monobasic phosphate).

If those last numbers are the working solution concentrations, I would cut it in half (at least half) before I subjected the plants to it in a recirculating system.
 
#811
@DeltaTetra That does seem pretty hot. But who know with low pressure aero. If its similar to undercurrent, a lot of those guys run the ec around .6 to 1 I think. You would probably be 2 or 3 times that with those ppm's.
 
#812
Hey guys thanks for the quick reply.

Sorry i forgot to mention that i had already planned to start with 1/3 solution strength in the initial stage (rooted clones) then gradually rising solution strength to 1/2 and then trying to find the upper limit.
I've been running a low pressure aero system for a year and an half and I’ve done several other grow in other hydro (drip system, rockwool and clay in the pot) and I find that the nutrient uptake of the two system are very similar, I just use aero because I find it cleaner.

Maybe the greater nutrient absorption is related only to high pressure hydro I guess.

If you were to use a kind of water like mine what other factor would you pay attention to when formulating your own nutrient solution??
 
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#813
DeltaTetra said:
If you were to use a kind of water like mine what other factor would you pay attention to when formulating your own nutrient solution??
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I would not know where to start with a CaCo3 number that high. I would be inclined to work with a water filter.
 
#814
Fresh Starts said:
I would not know where to start with a CaCo3 number that high. I would be inclined to work with a water filter.
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Hey Fresh Starts.
I've been reading a lot about nutrient formulation and i think i've found a suitable formula for my water.

The main issue with CaCO3 is that it raises water alkalinity (pH) so i have to work with acid to lower the pH.

So thanks to Alkcalc i know the ppm of N i add to the solution (IE with Nitric acid) to lower the pH, which in my case is about 40ppm of N (with Nitric Acid), so i put the 40ppm of N in the water parameter window in Hydrobuddy (or i subtract 40ppm of N from the target concentration) and try to reach the desired ppm level of the other elements.

My first formulation attempt will be fatman's bloom recirculation formula but this formula (with the minerals listed by fatman) is low on S on my water so i had to add a little of ammonium sulphate to pump up S and magnesium nitrate to balance the formula.

At the end my solution (fatman's bloom recirculation at 1/3 strenght) is:

NO3- : 79
NH4+ : 8
P : 27
K : 97
Mg : 31
Ca : 87
S : 33
Fe : 3
Zn: 2
B : 2
Mn : 2
Cu : 0.5
Mo : 0.03
Na : 0.014
Cl : 13.9

I've been struggling to find all the required elements in the EU but after a lot of googling i've found this great german store en.deutsche-phytoengineering.de Hope it helps european people
I found everything in that store (apart from acids which i had to buy on ebay on a restauration store lol) and i ended up buying other minerals currently i don't use, but who knows... :)
 
#815
Mel
Hi guys, can someone help me understand this passage from Mel Frank's book? (see attachment)

Does it suggest to cut down N and to double K ratio at high temp/strong light (and the contrary at low temp/weaker light)?

Since english is not my first language i'm a little confused with "up to twice as much N as K", can someone please enlighten me?

Thanks in advance
 
#816
DeltaTetra said:
View attachment 510739
Hi guys, can someone help me understand this passage from Mel Frank's book? (see attachment)

Does it suggest to cut down N and to double K ratio at high temp/strong light (and the contrary at low temp/weaker light)?

Since english is not my first language i'm a little confused with "up to twice as much N as K", can someone please enlighten me?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

When the light is more intense use 2x the amount of N to K. Example would be 200ppm N and 100pppm K
When light is less intense do the opposite: 200 ppm k and 100 ppm N

When it is hot out use less N.

They do make the distinction between WARM TEMPS and LIGHT INTENSITY. I would imagine in a typical grow room you are running low intensity light when plants are babies (i.e cloning) and high intensity all the rest of the time in a plants life. Temps would be average at around 75 degrees, as they say above 90 is "hot", so I don't see a need to ever cut N (until you are flushing it out in bloom).
 
#817
@Capulator: Thank you very much for your clarification, as always your contribution is golden

Thanks again
 
#818
Crysmatic said:
to clarify, the A and B concentrates will have a pH of 5.8 and EC2.47?

Fatman's bloom recipe is meant for 20L (5.28 usgal) so I've converted everything to grams. note that you'll use less than 10L RO water per stock solution because the salts displace some water.

Part A (10L)
Calcium Nitrate 2330
Potassium Nitrate 442
Iron Chelate 202

Part B (10L)
Potassium Nitrate 442
MonoPotassium Phosphate 697
Magnesium Sulfate 1692
Manganese Sulfate 40
Boric Acid / Solubor 55
Zinc Sulfate 44
Copper Sulfate 9
Ammonium Molybdate 0.4

Volume of Stock Solutions 10L each of A and B
Dilution Rate 100:1 (10mL/L)
I got totally different weights, pH and EC using the calculator...?

one thing I noticed is that the Ammonium Molybdate adds NH4+...so I had to break down N to 228 ppm NO3 and 11 ppm NH4+. also, can you make a 250:1 solution by adding 2.5x the salts? or will something precipitate? Do you use humic acid?

AN and GH both add about 25% N as NH4+. How is this beneficial? AN states on p.117 of their 'how to grow bigger buds' advert, that they balance anions and cations to buffer pH. Is their 'pH perfect' tech helpful? or is it just a gimmick for noobs?
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I am a little confused by the amounts needed for this mix. Calcium Nitrate for example, 2330, is that grams per 10ml? or 2330 mg/10ml? Also, I realize this is a pretty old thread, but have people found recipes that work considerably better?

Thanks
 
#819
That would be grams in 10 liters to make concentrate, then 10ml of "A" to 1 liter of water for feed.
 
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