Tnelz thread about whatever!

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MGRox

MGRox

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Is what you're saying here that while Ca can encourage root growth, it can easily cause cause lockout issues through P & Fe lockout?
Well, no. I wasn't intending to refer to a lockout; though in a technical sense, P often must be acquired from precipitated compounds vs its' elemental state.
The statement I made there was, I guess, several areas of investigation condensed into one.......
While research has shown that roots beneficially will root into areas of soil containing Ca vs not
Here. There has been research into various soil conditions. Quite simply. If you take a plant in a pot (or ground) and put 1/2 of the soil with No calcium and one half of the soil With calcium; then most plants will root much quicker and greater into the Ca containing sections.
The conclusion of the research, more or less, presumed that this was an evolved response as soils with Calcium can offer a higher degree of pH stabilization and acid neutralization that soils without Ca. I.e. plant genotypes that did not evolve this characteristic died off long ago lol.
they still have to produce both root hairs
Here. quite simply also; P, Ca, Fe and most metals, are most efficiently taken up at root tips or fine root hair surfaces. So from the perspective of a plant rooting into new soil. There will be XX time required in order for the plants to grow new tips and hairs (in the new medium); so that relative potential availability is high enough to support plant growth.
Prior to this, nutrient demands must come from either; nutrients in old medium section or energy / nutrients stored in leaves and roots.
(It is during this period and understandably so, that many plants will exhibit anthocyanic glycosylation or even acylation.......Urrr, Uhmmm.....Red / Purple stems and/or petioles)
In order for efficient uptake, that is (e.g. P and Fe).
Here. there are more elements that require time for efficient uptake; however P and Fe were just chosen as of note.
Again, lets look a this plant recently up-potted and after enough time has passed for some root growth into the new medium. Let's assume that this medium is already base saturated (say albrecht ratio) and that also, since time has passed for roots to grow; that the medium has been dried and new moisture added (at least once).
Specifically with Phosphorus;
it is pretty commonly known that the form of phosphate is dependent on pH. As well, it is commonly known that only small percentages of P are considered "active"ly available. When looking at the "Phosphorous Pool"; it includes Active, Available and Inactive forms of P. Active P, which represents ortho-phosphate forms; is often less than 5% of total P. Available P is phosphate that HAS been bound to another element, but IS easily recoverable; most often P is bound with Ca here (wide ranging 35-85% of P). Inactive P, would be a compound that also HAS been bound to another element; but is NOT easily recoverable; quite often P is bound with Fe here (wide ranging 10-50%).
Of note to point out also is that the forming of Available and Inactive forms of P are related to pH, but more specifically to the combined concentration (in localized areas) of said elements. I.e. if the combined concentration of P and Ca exceed 2.2 mol / 100gm of soil; then Calcium Phosphate will be precipitated. This occurs quite often an normally in wet /dry cycles of soils and tends to be the main reason that Available P is the largest total Pool Fraction
So then back this plant which has just recently rooted into a new medium. This new medium contains Ca along with all the other elements (Albrecht). Since time has elapsed and medium has been dried during the period roots are first exploring the soil; the Phosphorous pool has also had time to average out. In order for roots to effectively uptate the larger portion of P, which is as this point bound to Ca (to some degree); root exudates must also be given off to acidify / break the bond of the Calcium phosphate. As well and in general, root exudates are required to optimize the pH for uptake of all elements relative to the medium pH and contained compounds.

At this point then, the limiting factor becomes the efficiency or productivity of said plant; at producing exudates that are effective in reducing Calcium Phosphate and or control of the local pH. Again during this period, energy required for this process must be derived from elements in the old soil fraction and / or stored nutrients / energy in plant tissues.
The productivity of the plant then at producing these exudates relates to is nature as a Califuge or Calcicole. IMHO I'm firmly decided that MJ is a Calcifuge.

Finally then, once enough new roots have grown into a medium and proper exudates have been produced; then a plant can uptake sufficient nutrients for both survival and new growth. So the time required from up-potting until sufficient uptake are dependent on: the health of the plant prior to up-potting, the reserves of nutrients in old medium, the rate at which new roots grow into the new medium, the strength and volume of exudates from roots and the fraction of P forms in the P pool of the new medium (of course along with common; moisture, pH and EC).

During this whole process, the plant has the "choice" to continue to draw elements from the old soil; or to remobilize stored nutrients in existing tissues. Quite often plants will choose to, at least in part, remobilize nutrients out of existing tissues; primarily as it costs less energy. A good analogy here is if you get thrust into some sort of outdoor survival situation. You came from a situation with plenty of food and if / when you find your way out; you will have plenty of food also. Is it more wise (From a survival perspective) to try and find all the food energy you will need to escape, before leaving? Or would it be more wise to try and escape first, relying on your stored fat / energy?
This is why we commonly see some mobilization and anthocyanin development shortly after up-potting, first potting rooted cuts, etc. As well it has been shown that certain plants will also show anthocyanin development as a response to rapid and robust rooting. Again here the plant is choosing to mobilize current reserves in favor of future uptake potential.

Ultimately then, since this "process" is unavoidable; IMHO, I try to do what I can to reduce this time // energy required by the plant. So the suggestion of starting with nutes, is in effort to get the macro elements to saturation faster (since a peat-lite mix). As well lowering the Ca of the first few feedings is to help possibly reduce the percentage of P converted to available; from active. Last, by slightly lowering the pH of the first few waterings can possibly reduce the required exudates during the optimization of uptake.

Sorry to be long and I hope it's not TMI for everyone. One of those areas that quick to say simply but hard to explain I guess, lol.
 
BlackSheepOG

BlackSheepOG

2,783
263
Not sure how you guys like your glue but I like mine with a lil side of ice. Always seems to sooth the soul....
Image
 
Ned Kelly

Ned Kelly

1,811
263
Be at least 2 weeks . Manage to get rest of response tangled in quote lol.
how long you gonna be around? ... I'll be moving around that time, and I believe towards Pueblo since it seems cheap as fuck out there and I'm sick of being fleeced for the privilege of being completely surrounded by idiots[/QUOT
Be atleast 2 weeks . Believe the expedition runs. 5 days before the cup so catch both plus some general country side cruising . Like this time headed into mountains found white wood beautiful little town . Still with snow . Further up a it people skiing . Wasn't quite dressed for snow play t shirt short and thongs . But had a small scoob and took it all in . Don't mind just having a look around always something to be seen .
 
Izzyi2d

Izzyi2d

67
33
Hey guys... On my above post I said I'm running only half of the t5 at 4/8 bulbs... Do you think if I can keep 79 temp 60 humidity its o.k to put all 8 bulbs on? Also it seems like this soil just stays wet... It's been over 36 hrs I can squeeze a pinch of soil and it will drop water... Any ideas?... Thanks!
 
Lazerus00

Lazerus00

2,030
263
Hey so just in case anybody is looking...That Green Cleaner sister product Root Cleaner is supposed to be GREAT! It is priced just like Green Cleaner with an 8oz bottle costing like $40 but for some reason right now it is on Amazon with the 8oz bottle at $40 but the 32oz and the gallon size are marked at $24.99 plus $4.99 shipping. I scooped up the gallon which will normally be like $300 or so and feel like its too good of a deal to be legit and I have a feeling this is like this bc somebody fucked up entering prices. The 1 gallon size is sold out but if any of yall wanna get that 32oz bottle for a great price I'd head over there before those sell out too.....
 
stonestacker

stonestacker

4,271
263
Hey guys... On my above post I said I'm running only half of the t5 at 4/8 bulbs... Do you think if I can keep 79 temp 60 humidity its o.k to put all 8 bulbs on? Also it seems like this soil just stays wet... It's been over 36 hrs I can squeeze a pinch of soil and it will drop water... Any ideas?... Thanks!
Welcome Izzyi2d.
If you can keep the temps in check you can run the rest of your lights. You probably don't need them yet. But you need to test and get temp under control.
The new clones you have don't have the root system to use up much water yet. Just be patient let them dry out before you water again. Learn to judge by picking up the pot feeling the weight to tell when to water.
Lookout this hobby is addictive lol.
Peace and happy growing.
 
Lazerus00

Lazerus00

2,030
263
Disregard my previous post about Root Cleaner and Amazon, they figured out their mistake and cancelled my order....it was clearly too good to be true...lol
 

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