Loose Airy Buds

My old HPS system produced more than my LEDs are at the moment. I was running a 600w HPS but the Heat issue in the confined space made be change over to LED. I done a few autos with them but it was crap!!! On my 12/12 cycle AK I’m still figuring it out with watering, SOG height and few other things. But I am convinced I’ll get what I was origanlky getting from my HPS. Saying that if I done all the extra things I’m doing now to my old HPS I’m sure it would do better again. I’m still unsure if I’m gonna change back to HPS, 600w was to hot and causing to much stink. 400w??? Ermmm not sure.

Nobody sat here and claimed to be a super grower, I just call out what I know to be false and when I hear someone saying yields with LED are close or possibly more than HPS I'll call that out everytime. Happy Growing

I know growers hitting almost 3 pounds per 1000 watt Gavita in a multiple lamp sealed growroom with gas. Hell..I can hit 2 on the 750 setting on my 6/750 Gavitas. With double ended hps..hitting big weight is ALOT easier than the mogul socket single endex hps lamps. Much less work. Less fussy with picking the right strain. Less canopy management. I mean with double ended you still have to do those things but its not as critical and you still hit 2 plus pounds per lamp. With the right dialed in strains and sealed gassed multi lamp rooms..2.5 and 3 pounders are the norm now. For good growers that now how to use all the light.

Buddafett23 said:

To be honest rhinoB the more I’ve thought about and the more I’m convinced it’s not all about the light. If it was the light then my girls wouldn’t be covered in trichomes. I give them a clean water flush last week and been feeding every other day and draining the run off. The difference the past 2 days has been amazing!!! After a good inspection today they appear to be filling out. They are a little leafy still but that’s down to the strain I recon. (Afghan Kush)
Cheers bro.

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I also noticed that the coco took way longer to dry out when using LED. I'm actually using the same bossled brand panel as you, just the '600w' version. Another user commented that you're supposed to water coco every day. You are in fact supposed to FEED the coco itself every day, and if your medium is taking longer to start drying out (not that you should ever actually allow coco to go dry, as I'm sure everyone is aware of) then you need to feed LITTLE and OFTEN. We're not gonna go into coco cation exchange properties etc cos that's been covered waaaay too many times on here and there are probably thousands of threads in the archives about it. Bottom line is, to get the BEST results from your coco:

1. Never let it fully dry out, keep moist, not saturated, with small regular feedings/watering
2. Never flush coco with plain water without replacing the nutrients soon after, like a day maximum
3. Never use coco without doing extensive research. It's NOTHING like soil, despite looking similar. If you fuck up or get poor results you'll blame it on the coco. You absolutely cannot say that because you did such and such growing in soil, that's what you should do in coco. Chalk and cheese, completely different.

I'm sure some will read this and say 'but I always feed only every few days or whatever. This means you did not read my post. To get the BEST results I said.

In my opinion.

dan1989 said:

I also noticed that the coco took way longer to dry out when using LED. I'm actually using the same bossled brand panel as you, just the '600w' version. Another user commented that you're supposed to water coco every day. You are in fact supposed to FEED the coco itself every day, and if your medium is taking longer to start drying out (not that you should ever actually allow coco to go dry, as I'm sure everyone is aware of) then you need to feed LITTLE and OFTEN. We're not gonna go into coco cation exchange properties etc cos that's been covered waaaay too many times on here and there are probably thousands of threads in the archives about it. Bottom line is, to get the BEST results from your coco:

1. Never let it fully dry out, keep moist, not saturated, with small regular feedings/watering
2. Never flush coco with plain water without replacing the nutrients soon after, like a day maximum
3. Never use coco without doing extensive research. It's NOTHING like soil, despite looking similar. If you fuck up or get poor results you'll blame it on the coco. You absolutely cannot say that because you did such and such growing in soil, that's what you should do in coco. Chalk and cheese, completely different.

I'm sure some will read this and say 'but I always feed only every few days or whatever. This means you did not read my post. To get the BEST results I said.

In my opinion.

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Are you using perlite with your coco? When you feed each day are you doing it until you get run off?

Buddafett23 said:

Are you using perlite with your coco? When you feed each day are you doing it until you get run off?

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Yes that's basics

No offense bro but LEDS suck!! All that you'll ever get is loose airy buds. Make the switch like myself and everyone else from HPS to CMH not LED..No other light can even come close to CMH light. It's the closest to the sun! I've been doing this shit professionally for 25yrs. I run (20) 315s. I'm getting ready to buy some 630s too. But trust me NOTHING can compare to CMH lights! Most growers don't even realize you could buy a pretty dope 315w CMH light for less than a 600w HPS or some gimmicky overly expensive shitty LED! And I can GUARANTEE you that (1) 315w CMH light WILL outperform ANY sort of LED light or even a 600w HPS light! Or check this out: (3) 315w CMH lights will DUST a 1000w HPS air cooled 8inch flange light! LEDS cannot even come close to what CMH light does. Trust me I've ran side by side comparisons!! Good luck & Happy Growing! Here's what buds are suppose to look like. Not with purple or red LED light but natural looking bright as the sun CMH light the closet light to the sun!!

Like I said pal I’m new to the LED scene, I don’t doubt in the slightest that HPS or CMH will do better than an LED. The space I have I can’t use either coz of the heat and the amount of time I have to use my air flow system puts my running costs through the roof. Then like some other guy said it would be cheaper to go and buy off somebody else. My buds are all thickening up nicely now, had some good advice and it’s working for me. People are gonna argue all day that their lights are the best, but every set up is different and coz of certain reasons I’ve had to change to LED. The problems not with my light the problem if I’m completely honest is my skill set, I’m still learning. I’ve solved the airy bud problem now and when I put my next Afghans to flower they’ll do better again coz now I know what I was doing wrong. And from there I can fine tune my skill set with using LED and maybe be able to give somebody else that is starting out with LED some decent advice. I’ll post some pic when my girls are ready. Nice pics by the way what strain is that?

Buddafett23 said:

Like I said pal I’m new to the LED scene, I don’t doubt in the slightest that HPS or CMH will do better than an LED. The space I have I can’t use either coz of the heat and the amount of time I have to use my air flow system puts my running costs through the roof. Then like some other guy said it would be cheaper to go and buy off somebody else. My buds are all thickening up nicely now, had some good advice and it’s working for me. People are gonna argue all day that their lights are the best, but every set up is different and coz of certain reasons I’ve had to change to LED. The problems not with my light the problem if I’m completely honest is my skill set, I’m still learning. I’ve solved the airy bud problem now and when I put my next Afghans to flower they’ll do better again coz now I know what I was doing wrong. And from there I can fine tune my skill set with using LED and maybe be able to give somebody else that is starting out with LED some decent advice. I’ll post some pic when my girls are ready. Nice pics by the way what strain is that?

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Buddafett23 see that's the thing. 315w CMH lights DO NOT get hot! So you're wrong about cermaic metal halide lights getting hot because they simply DON'T! Now if you touch the bulb of course it'll burn you! But overall speaking you DO NOT have to worry about heat. I too at one time had an INSANE heat issue. Because I use to run too many 1000 watters. My room was over 100°! I did a whole lot of research before switching out my entire rooms and tossing away all of my 600s & 1000s & converted strictly to CMH! Now these days my rooms are between 73°- 77° and I run a combined total of (20) 315w CMH lights!! I don't even have to air cool them! So that translates to. No noise. No exhaust. And most importantly CHEAPER electric bills! Because check this out (1) 315w CMH light running at 110v/120v is only 3.5amps! That's half the power consumption of a 600w Hps light and actually a 1/2 amp less than a 400w Hps light. Which btw (1) 315w CMH light will smoke any 400w Hps, 600w Hps or ANY Led you could throw at it! If you go 220v then a 315w CMH light will ONLY comsume 1.5amps!! These are the lights of the future. NOTHING can compare. Your lower throw away branches will be filled with nugs! A 315w CMH light is PERFECT for people who have heat issues. You could throw one of these in a closet and work mircales with it! You DON'T even need to air cool it! Now they have air coolable hoods with glass & 6inch flanges for CMH lights but honestly if you flower your plant at the right height and do a little thing called: TRAINING then you'll NEVER need to buy an air cooled CMH light! Ontop of everything I said here. You can run harvest after harvest even use the same bulb through veg and flower and you wouldn't need to change your bulb for at least 5yrs! Yeah these lights are just one word: RIDICULOUS!! Here's a few pics of some past rooms I've done. Honestly I love T5s too. If you got yourself at least one 8 bulb T5 and use that to Veg assuming you're in a closet or some sort of confined space that would be your best bet for vegging. Then grab a 315w CMH light for flowering you would ABSOLUTELY love life! Unfortunately buddy your buds will continue to be airy. Your right about the light. It has EVERYTHING to do with the type of light you're choosing to use that being LED!! If you ever have $250 to spare go on ebay and grab yourself a complete 315w unit. The ballast & hood are all together. You get everything for $250 bulb, hood, ballast & timer!! You CANNOT beat it! I promise you that. You'll be so much more satisfied. Or you could continue to screw around and waste your time with LEDS. But you'll NEVER accomplish what a little mesely $250 315w CMH light can do. Just sayin'

I’ve tried a 400w metal halide and it bakes my shit every time time pal. My floor to ceiling height is 4 feet!!! I used to bend and lolly pop my plants away from the light but my next few girls going in have had LST and their Looking well!! I don’t doubt what your saying in the slightest about CMH lights and if I had the space that you have I’d give them a go. I’ll keep them in mind if I do fail with LED. Cheers for the info though.

Buddafett23 said:

I’ve tried a 400w metal halide and it bakes my shit every time time pal. My floor to ceiling height is 4 feet!!! I used to bend and lolly pop my plants away from the light but my next few girls going in have had LST and their Looking well!! I don’t doubt what your saying in the slightest about CMH lights and if I had the space that you have I’d give them a go. I’ll keep them in mind if I do fail with LED. Cheers for the info though.

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Okay so 4ft is INSANE! Dude upgrade your freakin room! Alright so if your in some sorta grow tent or grow box I assume. I would then recommend T5 4 bulb or 8 bulber. Your plants can touch the bulbs and not get burnt! Then I would recommend a shallow hood by Sunleaves and a 315w CMH air cooled light for bloom. 315w CMH lights still burn way cooler than any standard MH or HPS light. I want you to suceed. Dude I've been doing this shit for 25yrs. Believe me if I knew then what I knew now. Well look out! I just hate when people waste their time and money. I'm trying to give you the best solid advice from an expert grower's opinion. LEDS do not work. They are unnatural. And your buds will always be cursed with airy development. So do whatever but know this in the end you're wasting valuable time and money. Not to mention you're going to have a hard sell when it comes time for marketing. Also yoir weight is going to GREATLY be diminished. If you switch over to the T5 settup now for veg and sale ypur LED and pickup a air cooled vented shallow hood with a 315w ballast you will see instant results that will pay for itself after your first harvest. Either way good luck!

Yeah 4foot is pretty insane but that’s all I’ve got to work with. Like I said every situation is different and I’ve got so many negative issues with my space before I even stick a plant in there. My LEDs are working and doing an ok job now I’ve changed a few little things. My plant is Afghan Kush and it’s very tight noded so it looks leaf. But after one week of tweeking things my buds have really thickened up and not airy any more. I’m amazed how much they’ve changed in a week!!

DrPhillippe said:

No offense bro but LEDS suck!! All that you'll ever get is loose airy buds. Make the switch like myself and everyone else from HPS to CMH not LED..No other light can even come close to CMH light. It's the closest to the sun! I've been doing this shit professionally for 25yrs. I run (20) 315s. I'm getting ready to buy some 630s too. But trust me NOTHING can compare to CMH lights! Most growers don't even realize you could buy a pretty dope 315w CMH light for less than a 600w HPS or some gimmicky overly expensive shitty LED! And I can GUARANTEE you that (1) 315w CMH light WILL outperform ANY sort of LED light or even a 600w HPS light! Or check this out: (3) 315w CMH lights will DUST a 1000w HPS air cooled 8inch flange light! LEDS cannot even come close to what CMH light does. Trust me I've ran side by side comparisons!! Good luck & Happy Growing! Here's what buds are suppose to look like. Not with purple or red LED light but natural looking bright as the sun CMH light the closet light to the sun!!

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I dont know about that. From friends and what not...them HLG 550 quantum boards look to be the bees knees. But I hear you on cmh. Those do rock. I want some for my veg room. To replace my t5's. Iam sticking with Gavita 6/750's for flower. With a bunch of them I can get great weight of top shelf flower. Oh and by the way a 315 cmh will absolutely NOT get the same weight of a 600 watt hps. No way. Ive seen it. Especially a double ended sixer. But even mogul socket...not happening. Sorry. Not trying to stir up shit but i cant let that fly.

Pimples said:

I dont know about that. From friends and what not...them HLG 550 quantum boards look to be the bees knees. But I hear you on cmh. Those do rock. I want some for my veg room. To replace my t5's. Iam sticking with Gavita 6/750's for flower. With a bunch of them I can get great weight of top shelf flower. Oh and by the way a 315 cmh will absolutely NOT get the same weight of a 600 watt hps. No way. Ive seen it. Especially a double ended sixer. But even mogul socket...not happening. Sorry. Not trying to stir up shit but i cant let that fly.

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I second this and strongly disagree that all you get is fluff... rock hard, 300 watt mars hydro leds, Its how you use the light and grow your plants. They don't suck, you just have to understand what you're working with. CMH is what I'll be upgrading to shortly

If you have high 8 foot plus ceilings and are able to run air conditioning in the summer (this time of year I bring it super cold air from 10 degree temps outside) you all should cut the crap and rock some Gavitas. For that 4 foot growroom I dont know what to tell ya except to build a new growroom. 4 foot is short brospeh..real short. I thought a 7 foot basement was short. Damn. Btw....those Mars blurple led's are ok at best. Great for someone not really needing alot of dope..more of a personal use garden. The very new (and pricey) quantum board and COB LED's are light years ahead of those in spectrum and especially efficiency. I know one grower buddy that has 2 x HLG 550 boards and pulls almost 60 to 65 ounces every 65 days. Using a little over 1000 watts from the wall. Half the wattage (he used to use 2 1000 watt hps) for the same weight. Hes been bragging to the rest of us (our little grow crew) about how he chopped his light bill in half to still pull down 4 pounds every 2 months. His patients buy it up and he only keeps a couple zips for himself. Knocking down about 5 grand a month to live on. Not a bad gig for his little setup. Of course he paid a grand a piece for them too. But that is a one time buy in and its got me thinking.

LOL

Every new thing takes time.... I have so much I want to say, but I see some folks are stuck.

I get it.

I own every single light everyone is talking about, except double ended stuff. The point is...

We are ALL good!

Going with what has been is always tried and true. See... I do get it. But perfection must be searched for, never truly attained!

I like to be "that guy" who... didn't listen to his friends and tried something new. And then guess what... all of a sudden people start trying things they said they would never try, once learning about new technologies, only after a friend proves em wrong.

But... in the end, as long as you're happy with your results, who cares.

Cheers...

Desertdweler said:

Every new thing takes time.... I have so much I want to say, but I see some folks are stuck.

I get it.

I own every single light everyone is talking about, except double ended stuff. The point is...

We are ALL good!

Going with what has been is always tried and true. See... I do get it. But perfection must be searched for, never truly attained!

I like to be "that guy" who... didn't listen to his friends and tried something new. And then guess what... all of a sudden people start trying things they said they would never try, once learning about new technologies, only after a friend proves em wrong.

But... in the end, as long as you're happy with your results, who cares.

Cheers...

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Well said pal.

RHINObeast said:

I second this and strongly disagree that all you get is fluff... rock hard, 300 watt mars hydro leds, Its how you use the light and grow your plants. They don't suck, you just have to understand what you're working with. CMH is what I'll be upgrading to shortly

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Nothing wrong with them pal and your right I’m still figuring out how to get the best from my LEDs.

No more airy buds, after some good advice one week later I’ve got no worrys at all. I increased the holes in my tubs and upped the feed to every other day and it’s worked. This bud is dense and dripping with THC!!
Boom!! Massive thank you to everyone that commented on here good and bad. The cheap Chinese BOSSLED are working, agreed they’re not the best on the market and other lights are better but for my situation and set up they’re working for me. Thanks guys, happy growing.!!!