Bud Structure.... Genetics or The Gardener?

Caninobis · Mar 3, 2020

Hey Guys,

I just finished my first true grow and i feel like i did everything i was supposed to. I did a lot of research and took a lot of direction from the awesome folks here on THCF but my buds still have that "home grown" look. I want to know if the way your buds turn out are, for the most part, genetically pre-determined as far as structure or is it due to the grower. The buds look nice and they're pretty dense but they don't have that typical uniform solid kind of round look. Is that something that is strain dependent or do i just suck? Please Help...

Back story of the plants life:
I paid extra attention to these plants, adjusting PH, monitoring PPM, doing run off tests, consistent nutrient regiment, RO water, consistent feeding schedule, I mean the only thing i didn't have were the environmental controls but even then my temps and humidity stayed pretty steady but i could definitely have used some more light. She was consistently happy her entire life. I had 2 minor incidents, one early on from over watering and one pretty late on from waiting a day too long to water. Neither was devastating and the plant came back relatively quickly both times but the rest of its life it was always happy so i can't figure out what i did wrong or would need to do differently on my next grow to achieve the results that i'm looking for.

Vagician · Mar 3, 2020

Genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. It's definitely both, to a limit.

Your buds look great. Do what you can to gain control over your environment since you said that is a potential issue. What were your average day/night temps/humidities?

More light could help, what did you use for this run?

Just remember that what you see at the dispo is their A-grade buds, anything that doesn't meet the cut goes into joints or heads into extraction. What you see on the shelves is just a portion of the overall harvest.

Jimster · Mar 3, 2020

Different strains produce different types of buds, along with the abundance of light and suitable growing conditions. Indica strains produce more of the nuggets that everyone seems to love, while a Sativa strain produces longer buds that aren't nearly as hard or compact. This can be traced back to their origins, with Sativa more suited to humid climates and Indicas for drier and colder climates. Nowadays, nearly 99% of the plants that you see are hybrids of the two, which accounts for the wide variety of the buds you see out there. You need a lot of light to get the harder nuggets, and drying them can also harden them up. Without the genetics, you can't get the hard buds you desire, but even with the proper genes, you need to provide them with what they need to grow unhindered. I use a HPS for flowering, which seems to increase bud heft, and letting them finish fully can make a big difference as they seem to put on mass and flavor at the very end of flowering, at least in my experience.

Growing_Garbage · Mar 3, 2020

So I don't know that you did anything wrong. Yes environment and genetics play a part, but also the commercial weed harvesting process plays a role. No matter what they'll say about that.
One they would trim those buds about 1/8th inch in more. Literally cut them into shape, no worry for anything that protrudes, the trim all goes to concentrates anyway.
Two they cut like 10 pounds at a time and throw it in bins or piles and transport to drying. This compaction right at harvest actually squishes them pretty tight and its not like they fluff back up when they're all sticky. of course that will get debated.
but try it. When you harvest let it all pile up in a tote and take it to hang or trim if thats how you do. notice the dispensary quality of the bud in the bottom of the tote... Another way to make dispensary weed, use an auto trimmer, roller bin sifter, any of those things make smaller rounder buds. They only take the big ones of those and the rest gets concentrated.

I think your buds are actually better the homegrown way. At least the trichs are still on the outside of your buds!

Caninobis · Mar 3, 2020

Vagician said:
Genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. It's definitely both, to a limit.

Your buds look great. Do what you can to gain control over your environment since you said that is a potential issue. What were your average day/night temps/humidities?

More light could help, what did you use for this run?

Just remember that what you see at the dispo is their A-grade buds, anything that doesn't meet the cut goes into joints or heads into extraction. What you see on the shelves is just a portion of the overall harvest.

Average temps were right around 73 during the day maybe as high as 78 on hot days and like 58 at night but it did get as low as 43 on those super cold rainy nights we had but it didn't happen too often. Average was definitely 73/58. RH was pretty stable. Almost always between 48%-52%.

I definitely needed more light. No question about that. I was using a ViparSpectra "300" watt LED with a couple of dinky amazon lights for supplemental lighting. The 300 was almost enough as the buds closest to the center of the light where super chunky, dense, soda can sized buds but everything below the canopy and on the outsides of the plants could have been better. I'm adding a second one of those lights for this next run and i'm thinking it should be enough for my 2x2X5 tent. I only grew 1 plant last time and i plan to do 2 this time if i can pull it off but 2 will be my max.

I wish i could run HPS but i just can't afford the power consumption because its absolutely necessary to have to run the AC with it. I can get away without running an AC most days using the LED's and they consume less power so they're more within budget for me.

MGuY · Mar 3, 2020

Caninobis said:
Average temps were right around 73 during the day maybe as high as 78 on hot days and like 58 at night but it did get as low as 43 on those super cold rainy nights we had but it didn't happen too often. Average was definitely 73/58. RH was pretty stable. Almost always between 48%-52%.

I definitely needed more light. No question about that. I was using a ViparSpectra "300" watt LED with a couple of dinky amazon lights for supplemental lighting. The 300 was almost enough as the buds closest to the center of the light where super chunky, dense, soda can sized buds but everything below the canopy and on the outsides of the plants could have been better. I'm adding a second one of those lights for this next run and i'm thinking it should be enough for my 2x2X5 tent. I only grew 1 plant last time and i plan to do 2 this time if i can pull it off but 2 will be my max.

I wish i could run HPS but i just can't afford the power consumption because its absolutely necessary to have to run the AC with it. I can get away without running an AC most days using the LED's and they consume less power so they're more within budget for me.

I got a 1500 watt cob LED for under 100.$ and after my first run with it I'm a happy camper.

Caninobis · Mar 3, 2020

Growing_Garbage said:
So I don't know that you did anything wrong. Yes environment and genetics play a part, but also the commercial weed harvesting process plays a role. No matter what they'll say about that.
One they would trim those buds about 1/8th inch in more. Literally cut them into shape, no worry for anything that protrudes, the trim all goes to concentrates anyway.
Two they cut like 10 pounds at a time and throw it in bins or piles and transport to drying. This compaction right at harvest actually squishes them pretty tight and its not like they fluff back up when they're all sticky. of course that will get debated.
but try it. When you harvest let it all pile up in a tote and take it to hang or trim if thats how you do. notice the dispensary quality of the bud in the bottom of the tote... Another way to make dispensary weed, use an auto trimmer, roller bin sifter, any of those things make smaller rounder buds. They only take the big ones of those and the rest gets concentrated.

I think your buds are actually better the homegrown way. At least the trichs are still on the outside of your buds!

Thanks man i appreciate it. I guess i'm just setting a high standard for myself. I want to produce something that you pull out of the jar and it takes your breath away and i just didn't achieve that with this run but learning is a process i can't expect to be a pro out the gate but i won't be satisfied until i am one.

I guess you are right though. When i trimmed i tried to maintain the natural structural integrity of the bud and these guys do sort out all of their top grade buds for sale and use the rest for productions which probably gives me a false idea of how my grow is supposed to turn out because i did get a handful of really nice perfect buds and i guess if i grew 10 pounds id have probably have a decent amount of bud like that. I harvested 76 grams from this plant and probably 15-20 grams are top quality compared to the rest.

stanknugzz77 · Mar 3, 2020

So many variables come into play with bud structure. Genetics, like you mentioned is a big factor (I just grew a piece of shit bagseed autoflower that had no bud structure whatsoever, just calyxes everywhere which was dedefinitely due to shitty genetics haha), but also temperature, light, humidity, nutrients etc. All of those can effect bud structure if too much or too little. It is fairly difficult to say what would be the case with your flowers, as it is difficult to assess unless it is in your own environment that you are evaluating for flaws. You mentioned that you might not have had adequate lighting. I would say that you most likely answered your own question. I do also want to mention that your flowers do not look bad at all. Unless you are trying to move it, who really cares about bag appeal? And if you are getting a friend's mind right and they complain about the looks of free medicine, tell them to hit the bricks haha. Positive vibes...

~nugzz

Beachwalker · Mar 3, 2020

Your buds look great especially for a first grow!

growing primo bud is more like the three legs of a tripod, but if I had to name just one thing I've found light intensity is the single biggest factor for bud hardness and density

Caninobis · Mar 3, 2020

Thanks for the input guys. My last run was some wonky seeds I got from a friend. This next round I’m running some in house genetics and savage genetics gear so genetics definitely shouldn’t be the issue. I also added my second light today so hopefully with the additional light and the superior genetics I can come closer to what I’m looking for. Both cultivars are indicas this time around so it will be interesting to see just how different the bud structure is if I run the same nutrient regiment and feeding schedule with the added light and improved genetics.
This is where we’re at so far. Plants are about 5 weeks since birth.

916Fisherman · Mar 3, 2020

In 25+ years I’ve never known there to be a “typical” but shape or look. Many factors contribute to this, especially the strain. Yours look to be some sort of OG strain if I took a guess. Those “uniform round buds” are just trimmed that way for bag appeal aka more $$$ lol

Caninobis · Mar 3, 2020

916Fisherman said:
In 25+ years I’ve never known there to be a “typical” but shape or look. Many factors contribute to this, especially the strain. Yours look to be some sort of OG strain if I took a guess. Those “uniform round buds” are just trimmed that way for bag appeal aka more $$$ lol

I get what you're saying but there is definitely a couple of different "typical" looks.

You've got buds like this that almost resemble mine but they're tighter and nicer and no matter how i trimmed mine up it would never look like that.

Then buds like this that are way more uniform and round and solid

and then you have bud like mine.

I'm trying to achieve something that looks like the second picture just as a personal preference. So i was wondering if it is something i'm doing wrong, genetics, or both. Seems to be a little bit of both. Obviously i'll never have a million dollar set up that creates a completely perfect environment for growing cannabis so i'll probably never produce something as nice as commercial producers but i've seen lots of guys with home grows pull what i'm looking for and i'm wondering what i need to learn to do the same but i think i have an idea of where i need to improve.

Terpz719 · Mar 3, 2020

The other posters made some excellent points, not the least of which is you have some really nice looking buds. I think genetics is the larger factor. Trimming was mentioned and I think you'll notice on the buds you prefer is all leaf material is gone. I find that easy to do finger trimming dried flower. Again genetics - if there is a low leaf ratio it's easier to get that look.
Regarding the rock hard bud aspect, I've recently read that continuing to feed silicon all through flower will contribute to that. I haven't tested that, but it's something you can check out.

Rootbound · Mar 3, 2020

MGuY said:
I got a 1500 watt cob LED for under 100.$ and after my first run with it I'm a happy camper.

1500 watt draw of power from the electrical outlet? Or was the $100 a typo and should have been $1000?

dire wolf · Mar 3, 2020

Hey canin , relax , your buds look great .....

Natural is normal , pumping the buds with boosters, hyro , over trimming ,squeezing bud into shape , not so normal

Dirtbag · Mar 3, 2020

I'd say a lot of what you are looking for is genetics, but also environment.. You could use more light. But It's rare to come across buds that have that natural density to them. Many growers unfortunately still use things like paclobutrazol to artificially make buds way more dense and therefore desirable in terms of jar appeal, and I see it a lot in dispensaries and instagram weed.
Main thing is how it smokes, how it tastes and how it makes you feel. I could really care less what it looks like personally. My favourite strain to smoke right now grows really small buds that arent very photogenic, but the smell, flavour and effect are outstanding.

Jimster · Mar 4, 2020

I grew Black Diesel and Gorilla Glue(older strain) and got the rock hard nugets, but the Malawi and Jack Herer weren't nuggets at all, just nice buds. One thing I will do with looser buds is to put them in a ziplock gallon bag, about half way and then slowly roll the bottom of the bag around the center mass. It will soon look like a plastic wraped giant joint, but the pressed together buds will stay harder, similar to the "bin" method discussed earlier. Just don't smash them too much!

MIMedGrower · Mar 4, 2020

I dont get the dense rock hard bud thing. Best smoking buds are more like Styrofoam and they bounce back into shape when squeezed a bit. And the trichones should still be covering it from proper handling. Firm but not so dense it doesnt break up.

My opinion anyway.

dire wolf · Mar 4, 2020

Also , look for indica dominant strains if you really need the rock hard solid bud , sativas usually grow more airy and flufflier and will never really give you that " nugget" appeal

Caninobis · Mar 4, 2020

Lots of great info here guys thank you. I get that its a silly thing for me to focus on, the look and shape of the buds, but i was more or less worried i was doing something wrong if i couldn't achieve a bud with bag appeal. I'm beginning to think though that it was definitely the overall genetics of the plant and i could have used more light for sure. The buds them selves are super dense so i don't think density is the issue but someone did mention the leaf to flower ratio and i think that is what contributes this look i don't like. This was a super leafy monster i mean leafs on leafs on leafs on leafs. They were EVERYWHERE and after looking at a buddies garden his buds turn out the way that i like but they have way waaaaay fewer leaves on the flowers themselves.

Bud Structure.... Genetics or The Gardener?

Caninobis

Vagician

Jimster

Growing_Garbage

Caninobis

MGuY

Caninobis

stanknugzz77

Beachwalker

Caninobis

916Fisherman

Caninobis

Terpz719

Rootbound

dire wolf

Dirtbag

Jimster

MIMedGrower

dire wolf

Caninobis

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