Big enough to top?

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Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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Vagician said:
Agreed. That would give 6 main branches, the perfect amount for a pot that size.
Click to expand...
Yup, and eventually 24 tops
20200312 083341
 
QuindariousGooch

QuindariousGooch

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My personal preference here would be to let the plant develop better roots before topping... it's all about them roots. First thing I would do is snip off the bottom 4 nodes. They are low and near the soil. They would be culled later most likely. Then I would let the plant grow 3-4 more nodes before topping. You already have pistils showing but still throwing asymmetrical 3's. Letting it gain another 2-4 nodes will allow it to get hormones and vigor established. It looks like you're throwing the first 5 leaf so why not let that come in solid vs just-post-survival mode topping. Even if it gets a little bigger than you want you can train her back, right? If you let 5-6 nodes come in you could top back to your best 4-6 branches (whatever you shoot for) that are solid, off the dirt, and ready to go. I think the plant would do well if topped now but better if you wait.

Try taking 2 clones, top one just after it is rooted and wait with the other until 2-3 new nodes come out, they look symmetrical and the plant is established. The later will allow you to pick the branches the plant has prioritized and cull the rest. On the early-topped clone you will have to work with whatever is there. I think this is splitting hairs but we run 1300 clones every 2 weeks and load the best 1200 into veg. The best 768 go to the show. They get 2 weeks in veg and are flipped. We top right after the top node pops out of the clone if the branches are there but most are topped at 7 days in. This gives us 4-6 solid branches for the flip. It's nice to cull the weaker branches before the flip so stretch and bud-set result in thick, solid nutrient highways for developing flowers. Leaving weaker, thinner, non-plant-prioritized branches on hoping they will throw down is like sending a boy for the beer... you rarely get what you were shooting for, your money is gone, and you're thirsty.

Lastly, this is not a catch all and hell, it could be wrong for that particular genetic. We are production based so if the plant can't yield and finish on our schedule we get a different one... never fight the nature of the plant. You'll lose every time. Your plant may love being topped at this stage so test it vs believing me or anyone blindly. Free advise is worth what you pay but a killer value if its good and fits. I encourage you to try some of the other suggestions given as they may give a better result than what I offered for your cultivar. Seeing different cause and effect scenarios makes you a better grower and that's why were all here, eh'

Thanks for the thought exercise... I may have learned as much as you writing it all out so thanks for the question.

Cheers,
Quindarious Gooch
 
QuindariousGooch

QuindariousGooch

72
33
QuindariousGooch said:
My personal preference here would be to let the plant develop better roots before topping... it's all about them roots. First thing I would do is snip off the bottom 4 nodes. They are low and near the soil. They would be culled later most likely. Then I would let the plant grow 3-4 more nodes before topping. You already have pistils showing but still throwing asymmetrical 3's. Letting it gain another 2-4 nodes will allow it to get hormones and vigor established. It looks like you're throwing the first 5 leaf so why not let that come in solid vs just-post-survival mode topping. Even if it gets a little bigger than you want you can train her back, right? If you let 5-6 nodes come in you could top back to your best 4-6 branches (whatever you shoot for) that are solid, off the dirt, and ready to go. I think the plant would do well if topped now but better if you wait.

Try taking 2 clones, top one just after it is rooted and wait with the other until 2-3 new nodes come out, they look symmetrical and the plant is established. The later will allow you to pick the branches the plant has prioritized and cull the rest. On the early-topped clone you will have to work with whatever is there. I think this is splitting hairs but we run 1300 clones every 2 weeks and load the best 1200 into veg. The best 768 go to the show. They get 2 weeks in veg and are flipped. We top right after the top node pops out of the clone if the branches are there but most are topped at 7 days in. This gives us 4-6 solid branches for the flip. It's nice to cull the weaker branches before the flip so stretch and bud-set result in thick, solid nutrient highways for developing flowers. Leaving weaker, thinner, non-plant-prioritized branches on hoping they will throw down is like sending a boy for the beer... you rarely get what you were shooting for, your money is gone, and you're thirsty.

Lastly, this is not a catch all and hell, it could be wrong for that particular genetic. We are production based so if the plant can't yield and finish on our schedule we get a different one... never fight the nature of the plant. You'll lose every time. Your plant may love being topped at this stage so test it vs believing me or anyone blindly. Free advise is worth what you pay but a killer value if its good and fits. I encourage you to try some of the other suggestions given as they may give a better result than what I offered for your cultivar. Seeing different cause and effect scenarios makes you a better grower and that's why were all here, eh'

Thanks for the thought exercise... I may have learned as much as you writing it all out so thanks for the question.

Cheers,
Quindarious Gooch
Click to expand...

This is a picture of a plant that was in a cloning tray x 2 weeks + veg 13 days. FYI - Purple Punch 1 of 9 seeds being tested-3-14-20 is Day 1 of flower.
This plant was the PP#7 we picked for a mom and shows the structure I mentioned. The rest just went into flower.

Note at the base we removed the lower branches to allow air mostly. In this case, scars of the 2 bottom nodes from the 3 originally on the clone.
We allowed 6 nodes to form, the stalk starting to bulk up and widen meaning we have good roots and transpiration... nice big nutrient highways.
Even before the topping she had the nodes forming branches... This plant popped after removing the center meristem and gave us a broad, slightly uneven canopy. We topped her 1 week prior to this picture...notice the relatively minor growth at the top vs the lower branches that raced for position reaching the top just as it was ready to pop. Nice timing on this run.
Note the inter-nodal spacing on the stalk between nodes 4 & 5 vs 2 & 3... that stretch happened after topping vs the lower nodes that were more established and did not stretch.

To put the pic and comments in the previous message together....
Topping a strong, nicely rooted, transpiring, happy plant gives more predictable and consistent results.

If the plant does not develop like this we know something is afoot at the Stop-n-Go and figure out the goof... make corrections if possible. This plant was a little 3-node clone with roots just popping out of a rockwool cube 2 weeks ago. If we had topped it right out of the gate it would not look like this... would be wider with 4 branches... great for a scrog. We grow SOG on a vertical wall (see pics-Day1 and Harvest Day) so for us this is a profitable shape. Everyone has a different situation so details like which node to clip are based in specific needs vs principles (like topping stronger plants gives better results). Again, I humbly submit these ideas as what I believe so far. Please forgive anything that sounded absolute. I'm still looking for the tip of that damned iceberg to scratch. My hope is that it helps you with your goals and maybe someone sees how we could do better and throws us some wisdom we can put to good use.

Iron Sharpens Iron!
Cheers,
Quindarious

Purple Punch 7 Mom day 1 flower 3 14 20 2


As a point of detail... we do not run these LEDS this close... just moved them in for the picture.
Room 4 day1
9 Hammer Wall 2 23 20 Harvest 2 26 Room 4
 
Cjm2164

Cjm2164

136
28
QuindariousGooch said:
My personal preference here would be to let the plant develop better roots before topping... it's all about them roots. First thing I would do is snip off the bottom 4 nodes. They are low and near the soil. They would be culled later most likely. Then I would let the plant grow 3-4 more nodes before topping. You already have pistils showing but still throwing asymmetrical 3's. Letting it gain another 2-4 nodes will allow it to get hormones and vigor established. It looks like you're throwing the first 5 leaf so why not let that come in solid vs just-post-survival mode topping. Even if it gets a little bigger than you want you can train her back, right? If you let 5-6 nodes come in you could top back to your best 4-6 branches (whatever you shoot for) that are solid, off the dirt, and ready to go. I think the plant would do well if topped now but better if you wait.

Try taking 2 clones, top one just after it is rooted and wait with the other until 2-3 new nodes come out, they look symmetrical and the plant is established. The later will allow you to pick the branches the plant has prioritized and cull the rest. On the early-topped clone you will have to work with whatever is there. I think this is splitting hairs but we run 1300 clones every 2 weeks and load the best 1200 into veg. The best 768 go to the show. They get 2 weeks in veg and are flipped. We top right after the top node pops out of the clone if the branches are there but most are topped at 7 days in. This gives us 4-6 solid branches for the flip. It's nice to cull the weaker branches before the flip so stretch and bud-set result in thick, solid nutrient highways for developing flowers. Leaving weaker, thinner, non-plant-prioritized branches on hoping they will throw down is like sending a boy for the beer... you rarely get what you were shooting for, your money is gone, and you're thirsty.

Lastly, this is not a catch all and hell, it could be wrong for that particular genetic. We are production based so if the plant can't yield and finish on our schedule we get a different one... never fight the nature of the plant. You'll lose every time. Your plant may love being topped at this stage so test it vs believing me or anyone blindly. Free advise is worth what you pay but a killer value if its good and fits. I encourage you to try some of the other suggestions given as they may give a better result than what I offered for your cultivar. Seeing different cause and effect scenarios makes you a better grower and that's why were all here, eh'

Thanks for the thought exercise... I may have learned as much as you writing it all out so thanks for the question.

Cheers,
Quindarious Gooch
Click to expand...
Thanks. Going to lst this one. Bending.
 
QuindariousGooch

QuindariousGooch

72
33
Cjm2164 said:
Do you need employees?
Click to expand...
Not at the moment. We're in Tacoma Washington. Not that we want in the future things change on a dime so if you're looking I can definitely get your info. Just to be clear though nothing open right now.
 
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