Thatoneguyyouknow_ said:

Be very careful, cautious, and mindful when you do this. This is very true, and good practice both, but if you burn something like laurel or rhododendron wood, and theres some others too, and you put a little too much down over a clay rich soil, itll harden the top layer of soil almost like cement, and itll drive the top inch or two of topsoil to like 9 ph after a couple of rains.

The lye that leaches out from many woods, is like 13.5 on the PH scale, its up there with caustic soda as far as it's alkalinity goes.

Tree Hardwood ash only if you use wood, no burned colored cardboards is a good thing to stick to as well. and def only put a dusting down, and not frequently either. The soil alkalinity it causes over time will eventually kill the soil fungi, and lot's of terrible, very unwanted things will happen after that in an "everything all at once" kind of way, even if it's seemed fine for a while before it.

Using ash inappropriately the lye can actually completely, and permanently ruin a given soil mass for growing plants of any kind at all. And the only way to fix it would be to backhoe the soil out, and refill it with healthy soil.

When a forest fire does this naturally, its (supposed to be) rare, and in a given square footage of soil, there is actually very little ash deposited, and it's mostly from leaves, whos ash contains far less Lye then wood ashes.

I actually spread laurel ashes into the gravel in my stepping stone walkways because it alkalizes the soil so effectively, no weed will grow from it, not even dandelions and bull thistle. It hardens the gravel in place nicely too, and rinses right off the rocks after pouring.

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Oh I didn't mean topdress the ash I meant topdress the flowers instead of burning it. I am thinking at the worms over the winter. This spring I put almost a gallon zip lock bag in each of my 30gallon pots in March. By the end of April it was all digested by the worms I will say back in 2003 I did mess up and till in wayyyy to much ash and nothing grew in that corner until I removed the top 8" of dirt and I built a raised bed there with a lot of compost I had. I was young and ignorant my head was in the right place a least

shaganja said:

In reply to the reg seed comment. I believe it's a gamble either way. Fems or regs. You never really know, exactly what's in the seed. So many players in the game, and many aren't going multiple generations, to make seed. F1's and sell it. I think more selection by us growers as to what we will buy, and grow will help the market.

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I seen so much of the f1 and sell it to the point I started making my own during flu. I personally have yet to find a male out of my own fems. But I have had 1 from a friend. Making my own crosses has really been rewarding and mind-blowing when you think I did that

Novaracer69 said:

Oh I didn't mean topdress the ash I meant topdress the flowers instead of burning it. I am thinking at the worms over the winter. This spring I put almost a gallon zip lock bag in each of my 30gallon pots in March. By the end of April it was all digested by the worms I will say back in 2003 I did mess up and till in wayyyy to much ash and nothing grew in that corner until I removed the top 8" of dirt and I built a raised bed there with a lot of compost I had. I was young and ignorant my head was in the right place a least

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hahaha, woops my bad. Carry on lol.

I only jumped to that conclusion because i've seen that happen a few times. Someone uses light hardwood ash, see's good results over the following weeks/month, then ya wanna put more down, which ruins the soil lol.

shaganja said:

In reply to the reg seed comment. I believe it's a gamble either way. Fems or regs. You never really know, exactly what's in the seed. So many players in the game, and many aren't going multiple generations, to make seed. F1's and sell it. I think more selection by us growers as to what we will buy, and grow will help the market.

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Im not against stable monoculture lineages for purposes of developing plants with traits you are after. Nor am i being pissy here, promise

But i am strongly against the massive widescale cultivation of monocultured inbred crops. This only ends badly, as it only ever has before for us. Think Gros Michel banana, and the other coupe dozen stable banana lineages that went out along with it.

the inbreeding/backcrossing and stabilizing is a double edged sword when it comes to mass cultivation, it is very very unwise. And those plants arent exactly intended for large scale repetitive cultivation. They are sources of traits and character, or at least that was the original intention behind sourcing stable fem seeds to grow starting a couple decades ago.

Ill take hunting plants from F1's over inbred stabilized pugs any day lol. The ONLY reason i even bother growing heavily inbred plants is for particular traits i want to bring into an F1 to hunt.

F1s give you stronger, larger, more vigorous, faster flowering, faster growing, higher resin content, more pest resistant, more rot resistant, and overall, just better plants across the board lol. If you have the space to keep mothers and take clones, i always recommend people make a fem F1 between their favorite lineages, and hunt for plants that meet the same kind of desires but without having to have its hand constantly held from seed to harvest.

The massive prevalence of careless fem seed in-breeding is what is causing Hermie rates to skyrocket, it is why pest resistance is constantly and steadily going down in our plants, it is why fungal contamination is becoming more common, and it is why the plants are getting less robust season after season.

Running fem F1s and choosing phenos myself very carefully, and intentionally avoiding inbreeding is also why i havent seen a hermie plant in my own grow in the last 5 or 6 years i spent growing, and why i have a 12ft tall plant, 14ft wide that are 3 months old from seed and prob gonna yeild more then 4 lbs dry, without being sprayed for pests, OR PM and rot. And i probably wont loose any of that flower even through my stormy ass Falls here.


F1's are better plants, they just are. Its been a couple decades since anything but an F1 bully breed won a dog long jump, and its been a helluva lot longer since anything but an F1 thoroughbred won the kentucky derby.


It actually annoys me how few F1 fem seeds are available on the market, theyre all backcrosses or S1s for the most part. I havent bought a fem seed in ages that wasnt an inbred backcrossed stabilized plant, or an S1 tbh.

My inbred and "stable" plants are like babysitting a 2 year old, where as my F1s practically grow themselves.



Every best phenotype ive ever had, every single one. Without exaggerating All of them. Were all F1s. There have been no exceptions to that yet. If i want specific traits, ill make an F1 with stable plants containing those traits. Then ill hunt phenos and almost always, within the first 4 beans, find exactly what im after, and it wont just put the original stable phenos to shame across the board, It's like comparing a Bull Mastiff to a Pug.

initially, stable fem lineages werent put out so you could grow monocultures of the same homogenous plants, it was so you can make your own plants from gene pools of traits you specifically desired. Growing inbred homogenous monocultures is asking for genetic disaster pretty much across the board. But thats become the most profitable, so it's most of what's going on in retail and commercial cultivation now. And is a big reason why im preserving as many reg, and F1 seeds as i canin the freezer. I dont wanna be caught with my pants down and a bunch of disease riddled impossible to grow plants in 20-30 years as the climate changes to allow fungal pathogens total, and complete free roam (which is exactly where we are headed btw, were steam rolling full-bore in that direction while actively refusing to learn from these mistakes we have made many times in the past with cash crops already)



Grow whatever plants you want though by all means. Im just overly opinionated on the F1 matter is all lol.

Two to three weeks to go. Outdoor photoperiod - using light deprivation to flower early:

chato said:

Two to three weeks to go. Outdoor photoperiod - using light deprivation to flower early:

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What do you guys do to deprive light in an outdoor grow? I was thinking of using a tarp, but it's windy as hell where I am and I am concerned with damaging the plants,

That’s all indoor growing is is light depping! So you apply the same principles! The big boys have nice greenhouses! But whatever it takes! But if you decide to light Depp outdoors, you are in it for the long-haul! No weekends off! Or weeklong vacations! It’s a daily grind! L O L!

Oldchucky said:

That’s all indoor growing is is light depping! So you apply the same principles! The big boys have nice greenhouses! But whatever it takes!

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The thing is, we don't go to 12 hours of both day light and dark until probably around mid September. Maybe I'll have to figure out something. It wouldn't hurt to do something to keep the rain off of them either way. I should have thought all this shit through before growing 12 plants.

That is pot growing on the East Coast! So now you have 12 guinea pigs to experiment on! Don’t hesitate to do that! That’s the most fun part of growing this stuff! Just my two cents! Of course, it is a little more fun when you have a couple pounds stashed in the closet! But you’ll get there! Pilgrim!

Cape1 said:

The thing is, we don't go to 12 hours of both day light and dark until probably around mid September. Maybe I'll have to figure out something. It wouldn't hurt to do something to keep the rain off of them either way. I should have thought all this shit through before growing 12 plants.

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I’m pretty much in the same window as you. Don’t stress, everything will start flowering and you are on your way. We got first tropical system headed our way. Lucky it’s now not when you got giant buds. It’s not a race, look out the window and enjoy the ride!

Listen to Jimmy! He will get you close to the finish line!

Novaracer69 said:

I seen so much of the f1 and sell it to the point I started making my own during covid. I personally have yet to find a male out of my own fems. But I have had 1 from a friend. Making my own crosses has really been rewarding and mind-blowing when you think I did that

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Oldchucky said:

Listen to Jimmy! He will get you close to the finish line!

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He comes highly recommended with credentials to boot

This is what poor grow planning looks like.


Good problems to have though i suppose.

Cape1 said:

The thing is, we don't go to 12 hours of both day light and dark until probably around mid September. Maybe I'll have to figure out something. It wouldn't hurt to do something to keep the rain off of them either way. I should have thought all this shit through before growing 12 plants.

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its not the dark hours count that tells plants when to flower, its the dark hours being longer then they were the night before, and that being a consistent thing.

You can even get a damn near pure sativa to start flowering at near 14 hours daylight if the context leading it into that situation is right.

The reason the 12/12 flip works inside, is because that dramatic change kinda puts plants into bud overdrive, because it makes them think they *missed* the ideal time to flower. The flowering process outdoors is all together a smoother, more gradual process. You just kinda slip into flower as the seasons progress.


If you started at 18/6, and you took like 3-5 minutes of daylight off the clock every day, and a highly sativa dominant haze, it would probably begin flowering before daylight hours even got lower then 14, thats just very difficult to pull off indoors with enough consistency to not stress out the plants. Indoors you can create the consistency of environment that allows a plant going into panic flowering to not stress out too much about the transition just because it's environment is so predictable and consistent. If you can keep a flowering plant alive, long enough passed its lifecycle, even at 12/12, most will eventually try and reveg a bit. Most people have never let a plant bud out that far, but it will put out some weird reveg growth eventually once the plants hormone systems really level off and realize the days are not getting shorter and havent been for a long time, but it also wont fully reveg in growth unless you start extending the days after that. But if you do this, you can full reveg a plant back into veg growth before you even hit 14 hours daylight lol. They are incredibly adaptable plants lol. Some pure sativas that were land races right at the equator, those will veg under 12/12 if you start the seed under 12/12, and they will autoflower after a certain point, but they will get really big if you do that. The (untampered) columbian was like this. but if you start them under 18/6, you can get them to flower at like 13hrs with gradual transitioning.


If you just left them under 14hrs consistent, they would grow in veg, but with fully formed pistils and calyxes, and wouldnt even stretch for flower, they would just begin flowering and grow continuously throughout.

To anyone who's ever thrown a sativa dom plant outside in mid summer when you thought it never should have flowered, but it started to anyway and then revegged, this is why lol. If you have a sudden gap in daylight hours, the plant will sit there for a week and then be like "oh shit, im late to flower", and then itll do that for like a week, and then itll go "oh shit, no its not".... and then a week after that, itll go "Oh wait, no, yup, time to flower". And by then itll be one wonky lookin plant lol.


TL;DR Def take jimmie's advice, look out the window at the pretty plants My plants are already eaking on into flower, even my sativas, getting rained on every day, for the last week+ itll be a bit longer before that really begins to bother me though. Buds dry in like 5 mins of sunlight this small.

Thatoneguyyouknow_ said:

its not the dark hours count that tells plants when to flower, its the dark hours being longer then they were the night before, and that being a consistent thing.

You can even get a damn near pure sativa to start flowering at near 14 hours daylight if the context leading it into that situation is right.

The reason the 12/12 flip works inside, is because that dramatic change kinda puts plants into bud overdrive, because it makes them think they *missed* the ideal time to flower. The flowering process outdoors is all together a smoother, more gradual process. You just kinda slip into flower as the seasons progress.


If you started at 18/6, and you took like 3-5 minutes of daylight off the clock every day, and a highly sativa dominant haze, it would probably begin flowering before daylight hours even got lower then 14, thats just very difficult to pull off indoors with enough consistency to not stress out the plants. Indoors you can create the consistency of environment that allows a plant going into panic flowering to not stress out too much about the transition just because it's environment is so predictable and consistent. If you can keep a flowering plant alive, long enough passed its lifecycle, even at 12/12, most will eventually try and reveg a bit. Most people have never let a plant bud out that far, but it will put out some weird reveg growth eventually once the plants hormone systems really level off and realize the days are not getting shorter and havent been for a long time, but it also wont fully reveg in growth unless you start extending the days after that. But if you do this, you can full reveg a plant back into veg growth before you even hit 14 hours daylight lol. They are incredibly adaptable plants lol. Some pure sativas that were land races right at the equator, those will veg under 12/12 if you start the seed under 12/12, and they will autoflower after a certain point, but they will get really big if you do that. The (untampered) columbian was like this. but if you start them under 18/6, you can get them to flower at like 13hrs with gradual transitioning.


If you just left them under 14hrs consistent, they would grow in veg, but with fully formed pistils and calyxes, and wouldnt even stretch for flower, they would just begin flowering and grow continuously throughout.



TL;DR Def take jimmie's advice, look out the window at the pretty plants My plants are already eaking on into flower, even my sativas, getting rained on every day, for the last week+ itll be a bit longer before that really begins to bother me though. Buds dry in like 5 mins of sunlight this small.

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Then why do the seeds I pop in mid April and put outdoors flower in mid to late May when the days are getting longer and then re-veg After the solstice when the days are getting shorter?

Oldchucky said:

Then why do the seeds I pop in mid April and put outdoors flower in mid to late May when the days are getting longer and then re-veg After the solstice when the days are getting shorter?

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ive only ever done that with seeds outside and never had a single plant reveg. Ever lol. Not a single pre-sexual maturtity plant iv ever put outside in that period, at any of the 3 latitudes ive grown at.


I started all mine in april this year, and had em all out in may. Everything from nearly pure indica to nearly pure sativa, and not one plant revegged.


Im assuming they had already preflowered before moving them outside, even if you hadnt noticed yet, and your photo period hours werent well enough aligned. only way thats possible with this kind of plant lol.

I guess we will agree to disagree on this one! Take it easy!

some weird reveg plants are also being caused by breeders not keeping clean enough with their photo/auto pollen. Light cross contam with pollen and breeding is definitely 100% going on here and there too, mainly in the midwest though.


autoflowering is a dominant trait not recessive, only one parent needs to have it for it to sporadically spread throughout several following generations of plants. Some of the partial autos will reveg with any sudden photoperiod transitions at all, at least it seems like they will, and some wont revert even if corrected.



And thats just how photoperiod fall flowering works in all class 3 annual herbs lol. Of which cannabis is one of. That's something i learned through some college courses in practical horticulture that was confirmed in my dablings with digital pre-programable timers and weird sativa lineages lol.

We will agree to disagree! Take it easy man!

Im def on board with agreeing to disagree there lol.




But other people might find this info useful, considering you can use it greatly to your own advantage Should also mention most of my fiddlings were with a land race sativa that originated near the equator, and that plant is in half of my plants im currently growing. Technically all i can say for sure is that it will work this way with those plants i suppose. Use your judgement there. However, when i was younger growing all my smaller stealthier indicas, i would still pop my seeds halfway through april and have em out in may sometime and never had reveg issues if i was smart about it. I only ever had reveg issues if i had preflowers before they went out or if they popped really soon after being put out. There is a bit of a lag with hormone shifts that needs to be taken into account. Plants do respond to their environment, but it happens quite slowly as we all know. This year was the first time i put any plants with genetics like this out as seed early, rather then clones around the solstice. I did follow the same protocol there that i always had before, and no signs of reveg, just plants ready and willing as soon as those hours started to shorten.