reggiebaseball said:

HE is posting wet weights, which I never really understand people bothering to measure.

Dry weight is 10-20% of wet, so you are looking at 2-3zs per plant across a 12x20 space I think.


Calbunn can perhaps reveal dry weights and comparisons once he completes his cure.

Click to expand...

I had wet weight because that's an early indication as to what my dry will be. I see this strain dry in the 20-25% range of wet. I thought you might be interested is all since dry weight will be proportional whether we're talking HPS or my Inda-Gro's.

But if your only seeing 10% of your total dried weight that sounds a little low, should be an average in the high teens to the mid 2o's after the fat lady sings.

Now the old lady wants me take her XMAS shopping. I hate fucking malls! It seems like every year I have to do this shit.

ShutUpDonny said:

Interesting and informative thread, guys. Thanks for the level-headed discussion - it's a relief to see these conversations not result in posturing and head butts.

Anyway, I'm particularly interested in the UV component to these lights. It makes sense that it's useful for plants to some degree, seeing as how they y'know evolved by growing under the sun. Funny how people conveniently forget that mimicking nature as closely as possible is probably what we should all be shooting for, at least at first.

I have a few not-very-scientific questions for you, Calbunn. How has your electrical bill responded to these lights as compared to others you've used? And how much heat do they throw, also in comparison? How close can you hold your hand to it? Not asking for specific measurements (unless of course you have them already written down ;D ), just wondering if throwing a 200w lamp into my 6x3x3 tent would cook plants or create a big glowing Bust Me sign for the Po. Stealth is one of my top considerations; visually, heat signature-wise, and spiking electric bill-wise as well.

Click to expand...

That is conveniently forgotten. Especially when we're talking about lighting. We can't surpass the sun in terms of overall spectrums or intensity however we can control lighting integrals to meet the plants daily mole count as well as optimize all the other conditions necessary for a successful and repeatable yield. Or at least that's the goal.

The closest you can come to replicating the ideal outdoor environment indoors the better off your plants will be for it. But you should be able to get a better quality product indoors and if real estate is plentiful you can get a better yield. But don't get me wrong. I'm a 25 season veteran outdoors and I love some ocean grown outdoors buds. However when conditions are optimal in a grow room they should be better then a mother nature grow or at least that's what I'm shooting for.

As to the electric bill and stealth there is a drop from my connected lighting loads from 1000 watt to 420 watts as well as no lamp change outs and lower AC/Ventilation for my summer grows. Basically it's cut my power bill in 1/2.

I started a thread on these new smart meters which I think you should check out. click my name and you can find it. It's pretty interesting on alot of levels. Not only in terms of lowering your utility bills but just how much the information the utility can acquire using this technology.

Don't worry about the heat these put off. They don't add more then 10 degrees above ambient and within 6" of the lamp or driver it's not even detectable.

El Cerebro said:

I don't want to mimic nature. I want to push the plants to reasonable and healthy limits, while giving them a high performance diet of everything they need to perform to a high athletic standard. Health, overall quality, yield, medicinal effects. And I want to do this via the most effective means (light, nutes, environment, etc). Does this lamp belong in my armamentarium is the question.

And by effective I mean evidence-based, peer reviewed. Other than mfg marketing literature, anecdotal accounts are all we have to work with so far and the basic currency of these forums). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (quoting Carl Sagan, but really a truism). I'm looking for enough evidence to justify the expense of doing a proper trial myself, haven't found it yet.

Click to expand...

Is there a question in all this? If you can't justify the expense then keep doing what your doing.

For me I run a perpetual with 6-8 plants per week

calbunn said:

Is there a question in all this? If you can't justify the expense then keep doing what your doing.

For me I run a perpetual with 6-8 plants per week

Click to expand...

From what you quoted, first paragraph, last sentence. And post #58, second paragraph. I'm not doing anything particularly innovative or progressive with my grows, interested in these lights for the same reasons anybody else would be.

I truly appreciate all your documentation, but looking for more validation beyond theory and marketing materials. Questioning your claims seems par for the course, but if I'm junking up your thread please just say. A few months ago I spoke with the (super nice) guy in those indagro vids and he went on and on about lots of interesting 'science'. Intrigued as I am, having investigated this for over a year and hoping it might be a game changer, everything you've claimed and reported over that time reads like chapters from him almost verbatim (all excellent info if it actually proves to apply practically). Please refer us otherwise, but it seems you and Sol are the only ones on the whole internet providing any evidence worth examining, and it's pretty limited really. I imagine a ton of us went through a similar theoryfest with LED (many still are, for my goals glad I dropped it and moved on). I for one thank you for your time invested, but I'm simply not convinced yet.

FYI, by interval I meant adding vegged plants periodically to a constantly flowering room (rather than putting in one run of plants to completion, we share this method). I think the term perpetual is broader and refers to continual cycling of clones from moms or prior donors in veg.

El Cerebro said:

From what you quoted, first paragraph, last sentence. And post #58, second paragraph. I'm not doing anything particularly innovative or progressive with my grows, interested in these lights for the same reasons anybody else would be.

I truly appreciate all your documentation, but looking for more validation beyond theory and marketing materials. Questioning your claims seems par for the course, but if I'm junking up your thread please just say. A few months ago I spoke with the (super nice) guy in those indagro vids and he went on and on about lots of interesting 'science'. Intrigued as I am, having investigated this for over a year and hoping it might be a game changer, everything you've claimed and reported over that time reads like chapters from him almost verbatim (all excellent info if it actually proves to apply practically). Please refer us otherwise, but it seems you and Sol are the only ones on the whole internet providing any evidence worth examining, and it's pretty limited really. I imagine a ton of us went through a similar theoryfest with LED (many still are, for my goals glad I dropped it and moved on). I for one thank you for your time invested, but I'm simply not convinced yet.

FYI, by interval I meant adding vegged plants periodically to a constantly flowering room (rather than putting in one run of plants to completion, we share this method). I think the term perpetual is broader and refers to continual cycling of clones from moms or prior donors in veg.

Click to expand...

El Cerebro: The Brain

perpetual or interval, hmmm?

Semantics senor. But since your smarter then me post a thread of your own por favor and I'll 'try to' pick apart every word you put on it.

hasta luego compadre

purps are coming in

nice leaf and bud structure

one of my favorite med strains

El Cerebro said:

From what you quoted, first paragraph, last sentence. And post #58, second paragraph. I'm not doing anything particularly innovative or progressive with my grows, interested in these lights for the same reasons anybody else would be.

I truly appreciate all your documentation, but looking for more validation beyond theory and marketing materials. Questioning your claims seems par for the course, but if I'm junking up your thread please just say. A few months ago I spoke with the (super nice) guy in those indagro vids and he went on and on about lots of interesting 'science'. Intrigued as I am, having investigated this for over a year and hoping it might be a game changer, everything you've claimed and reported over that time reads like chapters from him almost verbatim (all excellent info if it actually proves to apply practically). Please refer us otherwise, but it seems you and Sol are the only ones on the whole internet providing any evidence worth examining, and it's pretty limited really. I imagine a ton of us went through a similar theoryfest with LED (many still are, for my goals glad I dropped it and moved on). I for one thank you for your time invested, but I'm simply not convinced yet.

FYI, by interval I meant adding vegged plants periodically to a constantly flowering room (rather than putting in one run of plants to completion, we share this method). I think the term perpetual is broader and refers to continual cycling of clones from moms or prior donors in veg.

Click to expand...

calbunn said:

El Cerebro: The Brain

perpetual or interval, hmmm?

Semantics senor. But since your smarter then me post a thread of your own por favor and I'll 'try to' pick apart every word you put on it.

hasta luego compadre

Click to expand...

It seemed to me like he was thoughtful and respectful in his comments- and the best you could manage in response was some rather tepid wit. I'm not convinced about these glorified flourescents, either- and I'll be a lot less circumspect about my opinions. If you wanna get snotty with someone because he's voicing legitimate concerns, try me- and see where it gets ya. Bro.

By the way, his use of 'semantics', also known as language, is spot on the money, and doesn't need muddying up by those who use the language sloppily. Bro.

'Sloppy' possibly. 'Snotty' sure. I'll try to improve. But 'tepid'? Now that one really hurt.

I'll take some minor exception to the 'glorified fluorescent' comment at least in the context of how an indoor grower would consider it. Termed electrodeless fluorescent discharged lamp, or EFDL for short, these lamps are a type of fluorescent lamp. The major difference being unlike conventional fluorescent lamps, is that EFDL lamps rely on magnets that surround the fused glass sections to excite the gasses inside the lamp. Escaping gas and carbon build up on the electrodes inside the lamp (blackened ends) reduce lumen output. EFDL lamps don't have these issues since there are no electrodes to attract carbon and they don't have a screw or pin base connection where gasses can escape.

If you're not a fan of fluorescent for indoor grow then EFDL may never interest you and you'd never give it a second thought. But when compared to HID/T8/T5/CFL lamps the long 100,000 hr lamp life, low lumen depreciation, low heat signature and steady wavelengths provide a grower with generation after generation of wide spectrum wavelengths that unlike these other lamps types, remain an EFDL constant.

Let's consider that, due to lumen depreciation, you've been trained to change out your HID/T5/T8/CFL lamps every year on a 12/12 that's 4,380 hours or 25% of the rated life you've put on a 20,000 +/- hours lamp. An EFDL lamp doesn't depreciate to even 10% of it's initial lumen output until 70,000 hours or 16 years on a 12/12 cycle. In other words on a 12/12 annual cycle you'll be changing 16 lamps out for every EFDL lamp change that you might not even wish to change then since the lumen output only dropped by a mere 10%. If you are currently relamping more then once a year then lamp replacement costs are even higher. This is not to mention all the time and expense spent, as well as the environmental impact of disposing of all of these old lamps that is required of us in the first place.

All things considered though before elevating this technology to 'glorified status' we'd have to consider the lamps value in PAR spectrums and intensities all from a single wide spectrum source, the individual growers methods while using these lamps and how they ultimately enhance the bottom line experience then it is to that end, I post.

:party0044:

week 9 pics

Just entering week 9.

General Conditions: We started with two 1000w HPS with new high performance lamps each on a 4 ft rail with plants spaced at past best experienced density.
vs
Two of the Inda-Gro Pro-420PAR series on a 6 ft rail with highly dense planting.

All plant species are using matching pot shapes and sizes, identical planting mixtures, aquaponic watering, nutrients and lighting periods. The nutrients are prepared in Aquaculture, with the aid of fish waste the nutrient rich water is used to feed and hydrate. The only variation between the two systems was that we increased plant density with Inda-Gro and gave them 6 ft rails instead of the shorter 4 ft rails on the HPS systems.

Species: BC PURPLE
HPS Wet Wt = 300 grams
Inda-Gro Wet Wt = 338 grams

A chemist was employed to produce oils, or 'ear wax'.
1000 watt HPS averages 28 grams per 1/4lb of lower buds.
Inda-Gro 420 watt averages 38 grams per 1/4lb of lower buds.

Conclusion: Th BC PURP/420 Inda-Gro yielded a higher total average of 38 grams of additional wet weight per plant and an average of 10 more grams of oil weight per 1/4lb then the BC PUPR/1000 w HPS under identical conditions.

Summary: The oil production results confirm the observations that the plants seem to have increased Trichrome production. Plants under the Inda-Gro show greater vitality, fewer yellowing leaves (which I leave on to absorb energy), less internodal spacing and finish in less time with denser buds. These early results, even when packed insanely tighter per sq ft in larger spaces suggests a conservative final yields increase of 10% per plant on largely Indica hybrids with 20-30% increases in largely Sativa hybrids. :harvest:

Any more update? I just purchased the same induction light last week and keeping my fingers crossed.

Got an email this morning Inda-Gro is one of the sponsors and has a booth at this weekends High Times Cannabis Cup in LA.

http://medcancup.com/

See you there!

an LA cannabis cup in my backyard! I see a lost weekend in my very near future.

I've been following this thread and have been impressed with the results with such low wattages. But seeing them in action and getting a better understanding of what makes them work is what I've been wanting to see.

appreciate the heads up

So would you guys finally like some real photos and proof that the inda-gro lights can destroy the competition?
I was pointed here by Cal because he heard about my growing with them. I was also at the LA Cannabis Cup and was there briefly enough to be interviewed by TheWeedlyNews with Darryl from I-G.
I am about in day 4 of week 5 with Mandala #1 from Mandala seeds(an 8 week strain that I am trying to keep on line.) and also currently have Grape God and Nebula coming up shortly after.
First off I had, in the past, done my fair share of multi-variable growing and have since streamlined into a single light(some cases extras thrown in for shits) system, of which I do not need to vent, and uses half the energy. Those facts alone made me jump on them a year ago, when I first found them here in Oregon.
Now I will be able to properly display the flower cycle and soon many more cycles worth of photos. These first few are from the first 4wks and 6ds I will have more recent, as in current, tonight:)

DonoHayes said:

So would you guys finally like some real photos and proof that the inda-gro lights can destroy the competition?
I was pointed here by Cal because he heard about my growing with them. I was also at the LA Cannabis Cup and was there briefly enough to be interviewed by TheWeedlyNews with Darryl from I-G.
I am about in day 4 of week 5 with Mandala #1 from Mandala seeds(an 8 week strain that I am trying to keep on line.) and also currently have Grape God and Nebula coming up shortly after.
First off I had, in the past, done my fair share of multi-variable growing and have since streamlined into a single light(some cases extras thrown in for shits) system, of which I do not need to vent, and uses half the energy. Those facts alone made me jump on them a year ago, when I first found them here in Oregon.
Now I will be able to properly display the flower cycle and soon many more cycles worth of photos. These first few are from the first 4wks and 6ds I will have more recent, as in current, tonight:)

Click to expand...

Hi DonoHayes. I was there Saturday and it was a party the entire time. Tons of free smoke everywhere you turned, running into alot of old friends and made a few new ones too. We had a fantastic time.

I got to see the new Inda-Gro 420 that has a manual and auto sensing dim that they've been beta testing and which was frankly amazing. Based on the steady traffic I saw at their booth there there were alot of other people that thought the same thing. Do you have a link to the video you're referring to which you could post up?
Welcome aboard and I'll look forward to following your progress here:passingjoint:

I made it on Saturday too and can second that there was some sweet ganja making the rounds and the Inda-Gro booth was well worth seeing since they brought out what looked to be some purple kush and blue dream plants that are growing under these lights.

What I found interesting was the way these were rescued plants that once they got under the Inda-Gro lights and with the ESC Treatment (they were giving away 2oz bottles at the show) the new growth was impressive considering what shape they were in. The plants on display owner was there so I got to talk to him and he showed me the before and after conditions within 12 days of that treatment. These plants had very little chance of making it so I would have to agree they showed remarkable recovery and I'll be trying the sample out for myself.

At a minute into this video they show photon counts under their lights compared to the sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAZHZKuC6pI&list=UUc7IPosooLoG_lxXYvporkw&index=1&feature=plcp

Of course i've got a link, Here's a link to The Weedly News where Bill (the owner of those little clones Darryl and him tested) talks briefly about us
http://theweedlynews.com/?p=11030

And here's his interview. keep in mind I drove 16 hours and had NO clue they were going to do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6lWuyjlHhE&feature=player_embedded

now you can all see and start thinking of questions. I will be back on here shortly to post those pictures for you guys that would like to see what im doing with my EFDL's

I saw the youtube interview. There was a question why you had hps buds and no induction buds.

I need to experiment more with my inda 420 but I'm pretty sure it doesn't blow away a 1k hps. That is from my personal observation after owning the light for less than two months. It does work and I'm pleased with what I'm seeing though.

At this time my current cycle is still flowering, ending week six tomorrow. The reason I brought HPS buds was to show Darryl the medicine I messed with in Oregon.
To his surprise it was more intact and had been through less hands and looked better(even smoked better) than the top notch dispensary buds being passed at CC. Darryl took one hit and quit. This was so he can later compare when I meet with him again the quality of my Induction garden. The flowers from induction lights are so chalk full of a steady pace of cannibinoids being as they're using 95% PAR useable light rather than 25-40% that when I have a supply of it I don't smoke oil... and that's not a joke nor an upsell. I'm trying to take as many pictures as possible to show you life the whole way under Inda-Gro