Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

from what i hear gypsum can be absorbed if in direct contact with the roots, so like anything BUT RDWC/aero it should be ok.

squarepusher said:

from what i hear gypsum can be absorbed if in direct contact with the roots, so like anything BUT RDWC/aero it should be ok.

Click to expand...

So it's the direct contact thing. Welllll... maybe- after all, the nutes have to be in soluble form for the plants to be able to uptake through their roots. The reason gypsum works so well in organics is because the microherd does the breaking down and making soluble.

Proximity only goes so far... a Yogi Berra-ism if ever I heard one!

Gypsum is used as a leaching agent, not as a nutritional agent. It is not in an uptakable form.

real simple...snot is bad and expensive.

desertsquirrel said:

Gypsum is used as a leaching agent, not as a nutritional agent. It is not in an uptakable form.

Click to expand...

Really? What does it leach out? Makes sense why I wouldn't want it in my RDWC then!

Just read this thread start to finish and it has been hard to even take breaks! WOW, as a current user of the full House & Garden line I feel like I am the guy everyone is referring to when they say the liquid nutrient companies are raping the bank! I have enough H&G for a few runs, and they cost me enough that I'm not going to toss them out for the Jack's, but I am going to be less cautious with spilling and hope that I can get rid of this over priced crap and start using cheaper dry ferts ASAP! Big thanks to SB, DS, Cap, WG, ttystikk, Crysmatic, SP, and CM for keeping this thread on track and filling it with a wealth of knowledge!! I have a 2" binder full of notes from a class I took called "Soil Science 221: Fertilizers & Plant Nutrition", I am going to look through it since it has been a year since I took that class, and then maybe find some treasures that I will scan in and post in this thread to add to the huge amount info already here.

-Meeks :cool0010:

nMEEKS, that would be a fabulous contribution to the forums here. If I may make a suggestion, if you're going to post about soil nutrition, do it in a thread in the soil grow forums, and if your info is pertinent to hydro grows, please post it here.

I am still in the process of learning what it is I have to learn to be able to correctly diagnose growing issues, good and bad. I am also thankful for all the contributions people have made here, without which I probably would have given up long ago!

ttystikk said:

Really? What does it leach out? Makes sense why I wouldn't want it in my RDWC then!

Click to expand...

CUTTED AND PASTED:

"Gypsum has been around for over 250 years as a soil additive and plant food. Here are benefits from it's utilization on the land.

Lowers bulk compactness of soil

Gypsum-treated soil combined with organics can soften the soil and make it easier to till and crops react better.

Prevents water run-off and eroding

It is a defense against unnecessary water runoff from particularly big storms which create erosion.

Betters Soil Composition

Gypsum affords root growth and air and water movement.

Converts Salty Soils

An economical method to resolve salty soils.

Ties Organic Matter To Clay

The importance of organic matter is magnified when it is dispensed with this mineral.

Soil crusting is impossible and then helps seed emersion.

No crust formation allows more and faster seed emergence and a couple days earlier to harvest and market.

Betters low dissolved matter Irrigation Water

Develops water use efficiency

Gypsum helps the efficiency use of water for the crops. In periods of drought, this is exceedingly important.

Helps moist soils to be tilled easier

Less energy is required for the tillage.

Alters packed soil

Combining with organic amendments also helps, particularly in stopping the comeback of the compaction.

Lowers pH of salts in soil

Gypsum instantly lowers the pH of soils to the extent of conforming to approved standards for the growth of almost all crop plants.

Helps control dust erosion

Severe dust problems can be decreased, particularly if mixed with the use of water-soluble naturally occurring or synthetic compound consisting of large molecules made up of a linked series of repeated simple monomers (polymers).

Decrease bulging clays

As sodium is changed by calcium on these clays, they swell less and consequently do not easily block the pore spaces which air, water and roots travel.

Stops water logging of the soil

Gypsum improves the capability of soil to drain.

Makes magnesium harmless

Increases quality Of Organics

The mix of this mineral and organics increase the quality of each other as a soil amendment by decreasing the break down of soil organic matter when soils are worked.

Helps soil conditioners perform more efficiently

Increases the beneficial results of water-soluble conditioners used as amendments to change soil composition.

Step-ups crop productions

This mineral can be a farmer's champion by increasing crop yields from 10 to 50 % is very common.

Corrects undersoil acidity

Surface crusting can be prevented. It is feasible to have deeper rooting with producing benefits to the crops. Today it is widely used on acid soils. This mineral can improve many acid soils better than lime.

Heavy metal toxicity is regulated

The calcium in this mineral works as a controller of the balance of especially the micro nutrients like iron, zinc, manganese and copper in plants.

Helps the use of low quality irrigation water

If the effective SAR (sodium absorption ratio) of irrigation water is more than 6 for some crops, it should be applied.

Assists plants take in nutrients

Calcium, which is part of this mineral, is essential as most plant nutrients are absorbed by roots.

Supplies sulfur

It has sulfate which is a natural form of sulfur that is promptly accessible for soil requirements and plant consumption.

Improves fruit grade and many diseases are prevented

Good fruit quality needs an satisfactory amount of calcium found in this mineral.

Assists in the preparation of soil for a no-till establishment

An application of this mineral is a good to improve soil collecting and porosity that will last for years and help items more easily penetrate into the soil.

Can keep clay away from the roots

It may help prevent clay particles from clinging to the roots of crops like potatoes, carrots and garlic."



Gypsum has calcium and sulfur, which plants do utilize. Best used in SOIL. Not good in hydro as there are many other substitutes for this that are better for hydro. I personally till in a shitload of gypsum in areas that have heavy clay soils whenever I installed landscapes.

i appreciate a good cut/paste but i do wonder what a cp regarding gypsum is doing in this thread
on second thought? it does belong here so please disregard my original comment



nmeeks, good to see you getting it figured out, just remember though, if it is in a container? it's a version of soil less, aka a version of hydro, not soil like typical agro that is rampantly taught

fwiw

Thanks, Cap! Very good info, and helps fill in the chemistry and soils science picture of how this is helpful in soil crops. Clearly not a good amendment for hydro, but sometimes knowing why something DOESN'T work is as valuable as knowing that it does.

My front yard is a crusty, sunbaked, clay disaster. You've given me the idea to go looking for a gypsum amendment to add to it this spring. Would you recommend I try to topdress, or till it in (along with the few weeds that manage to poke up through the hardpan)?

wow 30 thousand views on this thread, wonder how many people have made the switch. :wondering
I hope everyone's 2012 is full of savings :)

Chronic Monster said:

wow 30 thousand views on this thread, wonder how many people have made the switch. :wondering
I hope everyone's 2012 is full of savings :)

Click to expand...

I dunno, but I'm thinkin' JRPeters should be cutting us a commission check!

that would be ill

I'm still waiting on someone too post there veg and flowering plants in this thread. That would be a nice addition!

eureka

so I plugged the numbers into the cannastats calculator for the six pack formula and whadya know 3-1-4-3-1.

what i did was take each value say magnesium sulfate which is 9.8% magnesium and 12.9%sulfur. i took those values, made them a numerical value, entered them into the calc with my multiplier being 3.79*1(litres into US gallon) and voila. However all my numbers were really low, like single digit and the sulfur didn't even register. but it all added up to the magical numbers. Also I didn't to calcs on the trace element, which is number 6 in the "six pack".

I am super stoked. My six pack recipe cost me $240 for 5-25kg bags and the 5 lb trace element tub. i could do the math but i know damn well im saving a shitload n would easily be on par with the jacks formula.

I worked off the gram formula fyi.

I have my base formula to work off of now. soooo jak'd

happy new year everyone!

EDIT: This was based off the veg formula. i got soo excited i had to post. I'll do the numbers for the bloom later on

You got a website for this sixpack formula? Interested in reading up on it.

I use the shit out of CNS-17 for coco. But buying 5 gal jugs for a little under $100 is killing me. I can make it with Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulphate, MKP, Potassium Nitrate, and some micronutrient mix, probably Jack's, hopefully in the form of sulphates.

When I do not have as much on my plate I will implement this and provide figures so others can duplicate.
And Hammerhead (budboy299 showed this formula I think a while ago)
And maybe MOAB(if they are not hiding a non-NPK ingredient)
Thanks everyone for helping show the way.

ttystikk said:

You got a website for this sixpack formula? Interested in reading up on it.

Click to expand...

you can buy all the individual salts/chemicals at a farm supply or a growers co-op. the only drawback so far is storing the 5 38L totes.

edit: I couldn't find any literature on it myself while doing research. n the website i posted only published the veg formula. if i didn't have that sheet from god knows when I woulda been SOL. Although the hydro shop would prolly have a copy on hand. after seeing that I'm 99% certain that the common A&B formulas available are pre-mixed batches of this, with the calcium? and phosphorous? being mixed later on when it can be diluted in a res.

either way this is the ultimate fine tuning tool to dial in strains and optimize your plants overall health and nutrition. imo. this nutrient regiment along with some myco's, grozyme, molasses n maaaaybe a blossom booster(although i think i'd just adjust my ratios) n i think that would be hard to be beat.

I was right confused there wasn't any info, or it was really hard to find on this stuff.

http://customhydronutrients.com/index.html/

you can get smaller quantities from here, and the price is good enough.

dankworth said:

I use the shit out of CNS-17 for coco. But buying 5 gal jugs for a little under $100 is killing me. I can make it with Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulphate, MKP, Potassium Nitrate, and some micronutrient mix, probably Jack's, hopefully in the form of sulphates.

When I do not have as much on my plate I will implement this and provide figures so others can duplicate.
And Hammerhead (budboy299 showed this formula I think a while ago)
And maybe MOAB(if they are not hiding a non-NPK ingredient)
Thanks everyone for helping show the way.

Click to expand...

MOAB has thiamine hydrochloride