1000 Watt Hps Bulb Is 6 Years Old

[jpzz]

Not my bulb but my friends. He just harvested a crop and its kick ass. When it hits 7 years old ill let you know. Btw its used about 11 months per year.

 

[Full.Melt]

you should buy another their not that expensive.if you can't afford one its no biggie keep rocking it.

 

[motherlode]

just bc a bulb will still light doesnt mean you should still use it

 

[Shamus]

I looked into it.. It may still light but the par spectrum severely diminishes after about a year..
Why be so dead set on getting the most out of something when it's hurting your bottom line?

ITS $70 FOR A REPLACEMENT

Your probably at 20% of what it used to be.. If not less.. Which means 80% less in the yield..
Has it ever occurred to you that your friend sucked at growing when he first started? And then got better in the 7 years..

Think about it..

He got better as the bulb got shittier.. Thus giving him the same results again and again..

Maybe he should stop being so cheap and buy a new one

This is not a business to be frugal


FWIW

 

[Full.Melt]

that 1000 is now 150 watts

 

[Skuna Tuna]

I looked into it.. It may still light but the par spectrum severely diminishes after about a year..
Why be so dead set on getting the most out of something when it's hurting your bottom line?

ITS $70 FOR A REPLACEMENT

Your probably at 20% of what it used to be.. If not less.. Which means 80% less in the yield..
Has it ever occurred to you that your friend sucked at growing when he first started? And then got better in the 7 years..

Think about it..

He got better as the bulb got shittier.. Thus giving him the same results again and again..

Maybe he should stop being so cheap and buy a new one

Cheas and assuming folk tend to plateau. This is not a business to be frugal


FWIW

u just made me laugh beer out my nose...

 

[Azhden]

Amazon has some 1000w HPS bulbs made in Japan for under $40 shipped, 140,000 lumens 24,000 hour bulb life 2,000k light spectrum.

Plantmax has bulbs under $30 with similar numbers/ratings as the one from Japan, it's not like you have to drop tons of $ on a light bulb, replacements are cheap.

I do like hearing someone trying to push the bulb to the limit though don't get me wrong... I know a few people who toss $150+ "dual arc" (HPS / MH in one bulb combo) every time they are done with a flower cycle... I really wish some days I was growing with 1000w HPS system instead of LEDs... I would basically get 4 "brand new" $150 bulbs every 2.5 months :cool: (10,000 hour burn time... 2.5 months at 10 hours on and 14 hours off in an A/C temp controlled hood... not even 800 hours of being on "at temp"... plenty of life left in my friends bulbs IMO)

Get a meter and check the PAR and Lumens to see if the bulb is actually up to growing any more :)

 

[Seamaiden]

Not my bulb but my friends. He just harvested a crop and its kick ass. When it hits 7 years old ill let you know. Btw its used about 11 months per year.

My husband had a razor like that once. It lasted for YEARS, HUNDREDS of shaves! So, he wrote to the manufacturer. They didn't give a fuck.

 

[jpzz]

I'm still trying to figure out why people say he should replace the bulb when it just got done growing a crop of top notch weed with a good yield. The bulb is doing exactly what he needs it to do. Last bulb he replaced was over 5 years old when he stopped using it.

 

[Skuna Tuna]

I'm still trying to figure out why people say he should replace the bulb when it just got done growing a crop of top notch weed with a good yield. The bulb is doing exactly what he needs it to do. Last bulb he replaced was over 5 years old when he stopped using it.

what was his grams/watt?

 

[jpzz]

My husband had a razor like that once. It lasted for YEARS, HUNDREDS of shaves! So, he wrote to the manufacturer. They didn't give a fuck.

View attachment 478678

A blade that lasts that long is bad for the manufacturers business.

 

[jpzz]

what was his grams/watt?

I really have no idea. I don't even know what the total weight of the harvest was. He grows about 12 to 14 plants per harvest. Sometimes a little more.

 

[Shamus]

unless he got at LEAST a pound then that bulb Is not doing what it's supposed too

 

[jpzz]

Amazon has some 1000w HPS bulbs made in Japan for under $40 shipped, 140,000 lumens 24,000 hour bulb life 2,000k light spectrum.

Plantmax has bulbs under $30 with similar numbers/ratings as the one from Japan, it's not like you have to drop tons of $ on a light bulb, replacements are cheap.

I do like hearing someone trying to push the bulb to the limit though don't get me wrong... I know a few people who toss $150+ "dual arc" (HPS / MH in one bulb combo) every time they are done with a flower cycle... I really wish some days I was growing with 1000w HPS system instead of LEDs... I would basically get 4 "brand new" $150 bulbs every 2.5 months :cool: (10,000 hour burn time... 2.5 months at 10 hours on and 14 hours off in an A/C temp controlled hood... not even 800 hours of being on "at temp"... plenty of life left in my friends bulbs IMO)


Get a meter and check the PAR and Lumens to see if the bulb is actually up to growing any more :)

That's a good price. I'll tell him about it. Thanks bro.

 

[Skuna Tuna]

I really have no idea. I don't even know what the total weight of the harvest was. He grows about 12 to 14 plants per harvest. Sometimes a little more.

with this being said, ur first statement is now a "Reel Big Fish"

lol i couldnt help myself. not trying to hate! Much luck to ur buddy.

 

[MGRox]

I'm still trying to figure out why people say he should replace the bulb when it just got done growing a crop of top notch weed with a good yield. The bulb is doing exactly what he needs it to do. Last bulb he replaced was over 5 years old when he stopped using it.

As has been pointed out above; bulbs will drop in intensity over time. Any tiny amount of longer wavelengths that would have been coming from that light would be gone. Most of the spectrum would be shifted to the strongest section (yellow / orange) and there should be a significant change in par; on top of lumen drop.

There are things that haven't been covered, such as what size space is he lighting and such. If for some reason he is able to get an equal amount of quality and dry mass from bulb this old (which is most likely less than a 600w atm); I would wonder more about him possibly having too much light when the bulbs are new. Instead of thinking how much he saved via not replacing the light; I would think how much extra he has spent in electricity over the last 6 years.

Something to consider.

 

[Dunge]

What if the common knowledge was to replace the bulbs every week?
There must be a better way to make this decision than trying to remember the history of each bulb.

I have done some close inspection of both MH and HPS lamps, lit and dark.
When dark and back lit, a slight darkening of the inner glass surface can at times be seen. This is presumably deposition of material that will clearly diminish output due to internal reflection and simple occultation.
When viewed hot with a welding hood, there are at times clearly defective portions of the plasma container.
So I replace when defects can be seen.
What else might I look for?
What would make the spectrum drift with age, and is there a way to observe this?

I'm not in this to save money, I just have an aversion to wasting it, and hate abandoning purpose built objects prematurely.

 

[MGRox]

@Dunge That's an excellent way to determine when a bulb is bad and is a great idea!!

I did a little looking around quick as it sparked my attention. I'll post some various aspects related to this in case it can help. I'll clip out some items related to the spectral shift and performance drop over time.

I'm sure most know how these operate, but to cover for clarity:
LINK (wiki)
"High-pressure sodium (HPS) lamps are smaller and contain elements such as mercury...." "The sodium D-line is the main source of light from the HPS lamp, and it is [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_line#Pressure_broadening']pressure broadened by the high pressure in the lamp". "Xenon at a low pressure is used as a "starter gas" in the HPS lamp."[/URL]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)
"An amalgam of metallic sodium and mercury lies at the coolest part of the lamp and provides the sodium and mercury vapor that is needed to draw an arc." .... "The higher the temperature of the amalgam, the higher will be the mercury and sodium vapor pressures in the lamp and the higher will be the terminal voltage. As the temperature rises, the constant current and increasing voltage result in increased power until the nominal power is reached."

Further insight into design and operation characteristics from another source
LINK
For mercury and MH bulbs
"When a mercury vapor or metal halide lamp is energized, an electrical field is generated between one of the main electrodes and the starting electrode next to it. This causes an emission of electrons that ionize the argon starting gas. The ionized argon particles create a diffused argon arc between the two main electrodes of the lamp (Figure 4). The heat from this argon arc gradually vaporizes the arc metals in the arc tube. These ionized arc metal particles join the arc stream between the two main electrodes. When a sufficient number of ionized particles join the arc stream, the resistance between the main electrodes drops to a point where the start-up voltage supplied by the ballast can strike a current arc across the main electrodes. The arc current continues to increase until the current rating of the lamp is reached"

For HPS
"When an HPS lamp is energized, the high-voltage pulse ionizes the xenon gas in the arc tube, and an arc is established between the main electrodes. As soon as this arc is established, the voltage pulse is switched off. Sodium and mercury arc metals quickly vaporize and join this arc stream, and the arc current increases and stabilizes."

That same link has some good information in regards to spectrum and how its' achieved. This may be an aspect that is often not considered.
"The HID arc consists of a very rapid flow of both electrons and charged arc metal ions. During this rapid movement, countless collisions occur between ions and electrons. As these particles collide, they release energy at a specific wavelength (Figure 5). This energy appears to us as light. Because the number of particles in the arc tube is so great and the occurrence of collisions so frequent, it appears that the entire arc path constantly generates light."

Spectral production for MH and Mercury
"The color of the light is a characteristic of the light spectrum wavelength of the arc metals contained in the arc tube. For example, in a mercury vapor lamp, the mercury produces a distinct greenish white-blue light. Red, orange and yellow hues appear grayish. In a metal halide lamp, the arc discharges through the combined vapors of mercury and certain compounds of iodine. The halide compounds help strengthen yellows, greens and blues, so the overall color rendering of metal halide lamps is green-white. Reds and oranges appear dulled. Phosphor coatings on the bulbs of mercury vapor and metal halide lamps can improve color rendering and provide light diffusion."

Spectral production for HPS
HPS lamps generate a sodium-based light that is strongest in the yellow and orange range of the spectrum and weakest in the blue-green wavelengths. A small amount of mercury is added to the arc tube to help strengthen blues and greens, but the overall color rendering is still golden white, with both reds and blues appearing grayed.

So, now we know that high voltage, noble gasses and vaporized metals are producing the light. We also know that the spectrum of the light is based off both the metals contained and their proportion. Specifically for HPS we need to account for some other factors before looking at wear over the life.

Taken from the first link above (wiki)
"Because of the extremely high chemical activity of the high-pressure sodium arc, the arc tube is typically made of translucent aluminum oxide."

Further info taken from the second link above
"Sodium cannot be contained in a glass tube. The sodium would etch the glass and further degrade light output. Sodium must be contained in a metal container. Most lamp manufacturers use a special ceramic material known as polycrystalline alumina (PCA) to construct the HPS arc tube. PCA is basically an aluminum oxide material virtually insensitive to sodium attack. PCA tube materials do not lend themselves to the molten sealing method used in the construction of mercury vapor and metal halide arc tubes. Instead, PCA end caps, using either a wire-out end seal or a compound (shrink-fit and cemented) end seal, are epoxied or glued to the tube body using silicone glass. Each tube end cap contains an electrode. The sodium- mercury amalgam and starting gases are placed inside the arc tube before it is sealed closed."

One final component to consider then:
"Unlike mercury vapor and metal halide lamps, HPS lamps are excess amalgam lamps. This means there is more sodium and mercury arc metal placed inside the tube than can be vaporized during start-up and operation. The amount of amalgam that vaporizes depends on the total energy in the arc and the temperature of the amalgam."

"When HPS lamps were first introduced, the amalgam not held in a vaporized state remained condensed in an external reservoir located in the coolest part of the lamp. If the lamp was vibrated by winds or passing traffic, amalgam from the reservoir would splash down onto the arc tube, causing a thermal shock that would extinguish the lamp." ..... "Because of this thermal blink-out problem all but one of the major HPS lamp manufacturers have abandoned the external amalgam reservoir design in favor of internal reservoirs that do not create a thermal blink-out condition."

Now that all the factors involved are covered you could look into spectrum shift or light degredation;

First for spectrum shift as related to a diminishing blue, would relate to how the mercury behaved over time as that's the primary blue source for all HID's.
LINK (wiki)
"Mercury vapor lamps do burn out eventually as the burner electrodes wear, increasing the arc gap. As the lamp nears the end of life, lumen depreciation becomes noticeable and the light given off has a greenish tinge to it. This comes about because the emitter is deposited as a film darkening the arctube wall and reducing light output"

For HPS bulbs (taken from second link in post)
"Material discharged from the electrodes during start-up and operation redeposits on the arc tube ends in much the same way the tungsten filament of an incandescent lamp evaporates and blackens the bulb. This blackening of the arc tube also will increase operating temperaturesand voltage across the arc tube"

"The operating voltage of HPS lamps increases about 1-2 volts per 1000 hours operated. The life of an HPS lamp is dependent on the rate of lamp voltage rise. Lamp voltage will rise until it reaches the limit of the ballast voltage available. At this point, the HPS lamp will cycle ON and OFF, and its effective life will be over."

"Light output from all types of HID lamps gradually declines over time. Lumen maintenance depends on a number of light loss factors. These include any physical changes in the lamp, such as electrode deterioration, blackening of the arc tube or bulb, shifts in the chemical balance of the arc metals, or changes in ballast performance"


The last thing that I would highly recommend everyone to look at is how a manufacturer determines bulb life and "end of life". Since, from an electrical perspective, in all cases voltage rises with age as a result of items pointed out above. A great way, if not the best way, to determine bulb replacement; would be via testing the line voltage for a "fully lit" operational bulb. I'll provide the link again, but is also the second link in the post.
LINK
Refer to page 9 for the voltage range of various lamps and page 10 for lumen drop over time with various lamps.

From the chart; a 1,000 w HPS bulb would need replaced when the socket voltage met or exceeds 350 V.

Hope this helps and sorry to have a long post, but this does condense things down to important aspects I suppose.

 

[Dunge]

MGRox! You da man.
This post has some very useful bricks for my wall against perfect ignorance.
The first thing that comes to mind is devising a method to tap an HPS socket for voltage testing.

I love that story about the HPS containment tube and plumbing problems.
Will inspect ends closely.
Reminds me that the windows in the Star Trek Enterprise were aluminum oxide (of some yet to be known formulation).

 

[Skuna Tuna]

thanks @MGRox & @Dunge for turning this thread around and filling it with useful information. especially cuz i didnt know this yet;)