1st time Grow: 250w Red CFL micro...

[usualsuspect]

I've been smoking for ten years now and I've finally decided it's time to start growing my own! The usual motivations are there: needing to boost my income, fed up of the expense and a total lack of reliable dealers.

We bought a lovely looking chest that measures roughly 3 ft wide, 1.5 ft deep and 2.5 ft tall. After much research, I've decided to go with a 250w Red CFL with reflector for the whole grow in order to keep costs down.

First question, is it cost efficient in terms of money saved on electricity to get a 125w Blue CFL for Vegging? Im thinking that it would cut energy costs by around 25% as well as extending the lifespan of the Red bulb considerably. Is 125w Blue sufficient to veg three plants?

For this grow, I've gone with feminised seeds (mainly because at the moment I've only the Red, which I've read has a worse male-female ratio atributed to it and I don't want to waste time. I've ordered a Northern Lights, an AK48 and a Papaya.

I've also ordered a 120mm PC fan which I shall install at the back, bottom, middle of the box. I'll then add an exhaust grill at the top, above the intake fan. Is such an intake fan sufficient to build up the stalks, or do I need an additional fan during vegging? I'm also going to put a carbon filter over the exhaust grill to keep down the smell. Is one 120mm PC fan enough for a box of this size and three plants?

I'm planning on scrogging the plants, using a screen in a Trapazoid shape so that the two closest corners are clear in order to get under the screen to train and water the plants. I'll use a homemade screen with a wooden framing resting on blocks nailed into the sides of the box with string tied to screwed in eyelets.

With light schedules, is 24/0 the best idea if I want to minimise time between germinating and harvest? What are the downsides of this besides electricity costs and how much better is it than 18/6?

The SCROG wont be going the full 3ft width, only 2ft wide and 1.5ft deep since it will just have the one 250w Red over the top (on a homemade pully system). I figured that I could use the sides for vegging the next harvest early whilst the first is coming to the end of flowering by fitting a couple of Blue CFLs on each side.

The one thing I'm still not entirely sure about is the soil/nutes. Any recommendations on that?

Also, if I do it all correct, what sort of yield could I expect from a 2ft by 1.5ft scrog with the three plants mentioned? I should be able to get them to about 1-1.5ft high.

Looking forward to keeping you all up to date and hopefully creating a detailed template for others to give it a go!

I'll post pics when I get back home so that yaw'll can see what I'm on about. Keep you posted!

 

[jimbobthe3rd]

is it cost efficient in terms of money saved on electricity to get a 125w Blue CFL for Vegging?

125w Blue CFL = approx 8-9k lumens if memory serves me. This should be enough for three 1.5' plants(approx 40cm) if your light+reflector take up the other 1' available in your chest.

Is such an intake fan sufficient to build up the stalks, or do I need an additional fan during vegging?

In your particular grow area, don't worry about the additional fan, intake should do fine. The plants aren't going to be massive, so the stems should be fine.

Is one 120mm PC fan enough for a box of this size and three plants?

It'll be fine as long as the ambient room temperature of your box is fine. Which it should be, since the CFL's put off nearly no heat. It'll actually depend on the room temperature of where the chest is actually situated.

is 24/0 the best idea if I want to minimise time between germinating and harvest? What are the downsides of this besides electricity costs and how much better is it than 18/6?

Personally, i use 18/6, because of the HPS bulbs i use, they give off alot of radiant heat, which in turn makes the humidity very low, i used to do 24/7 and my humidity went to like 10-15%, which made the leaves on my plants curl upwards transpiring water. SO now i only use 18/6 to give the girls that 6 hours of darkness where they can absorb the moisture in the air when the humidity rises back up during dark hours.

This will be a personal choice for you, as CFL's i can't imagine wouldn't impact the RH% too much.

The one thing I'm still not entirely sure about is the soil/nutes. Any recommendations on that

I grow in hydroton 15%(for drainage at bottom), coco 85%. This works wonders for me always, it's not as sensitive as a hydro system, you can forget 1-2 feeds and the girls won't mind too much as long as it's not for more than 2 days they'll still chillax waiting for their next feed.

For feeding during veg i use Dutchmaster A & B grow usually with some Rock Root Tonic in the first 1-2 weeks of grow to help root growth, flower is Dutchmaster A & B flower, with additives changing every crop haha xD, best to find additives that are going to do what you want (stop stretch, harden buds, etc etc). But yea, i find the dutchmaster stuff works great in coco.

Also, if I do it all correct, what sort of yield could I expect from a 2ft by 1.5ft scrog with the three plants mentioned?

If you pulled the grow off perfectly with no problems? You could yield up to 6~8 ounces i'd think from one 250w red CFL flowering. Scrogging is my favourite way to grow to get that grams per watt ratio up there :).

-Jim

 

[grimeandreason]

cheers

Thanks a lot jimbob... Damn I'm getting impatient! Got everything heading my way in the post now!

Something else I thought about, is there much advantage to generating additional CO2 if you have an intake/exhaust?

Also, how do you measure humidity?

 

[jimbobthe3rd]

Don't use supplemental co2 if you have intake/exhaust. Co2 is only for sealed rooms, otherwise you're simply exhausting the valuable co2. For your particular situation i don't think co2 would be neccessary.

Humidity i measure from a little digital weather station i bought for 20$ usd. Tells me the time, the current temp, the current humidity, and at the end of the day tells me the highest and lowest points the temp/hum got to during that day :).

 

[usualsuspect]

My Beautiful Box!

Thanks Jimbo, that's kinda what I figured regarding the CO2. That little weather station sounds awesome, though it might have to wait until I got myself a job before I invest in that over a cheapo thermometer I could get for a quid!

Here's some pics of the box I'm gonna use, with the light for scale. Saying that, the light isn't that great to use for scale if, like me, you hadn't seen one before... They're bloody massive!! When I got the bulb out of the box today I could not believe my eyes! :surprised

I'm planning on using it lid side up (above), as it's designed for, since I'm SCROG'ing anyway. Does it look feasible? The height that way up is only 2'2" but with plenty of floor space for 3 plants. Alternatively, I could turn the box the other way, with the door opening sideways (which would make the height 2'6") with an area for the plants being 1'4" by 2'2"... it would be easier that way to get underneath the SCROG, but would that be a large enough area for three plants?

 

[usualsuspect]

OK, so seeds are here!

Got the seeds and the 120mm PC fan. Gonna get germination under way right now, though the box still needs completing. Still to get: thermometer, white mat paint, a 12v mains plug to splice to fan to and an exhaust grill.

Is it important to have the box ready the moment the seeds break out from the soil? I wasn't sure if a windowsill would be adequate for the first few days or whether I had to hurry the box along. Also, is there a cheap way to check the PH level of the soil? I'm imagining those cheap blotting strips that turn blue/red but can that work for soil, or just liquid?

 

[420king-MASSES]

go check out the hash tips article in skunk mag using the 660 red diode you can create a 1-3 inch thick coating of pure tricks rite on the tips of the colas

 

[usualsuspect]

eh?

I'm pretty new too this 420, could you tell me what tricks is jargon for and what 660 red diode is? Sorry for the ignorance and multiple questions, but I'm aiming to make this diary as instructive to 1st time growers as possible so, even though I can go off and research, if I'm not sure on something I'm gonna ask it here!

I'm still not sure about shelling out for another bulb either (the 125w blue for veg). I've heard that it's only slightly better than red (like 20% or so) for vegging but I'm wondering about the shelf-life of these bulbs. How many grows can you get out of CFL bulbs before the quality starts degrading? I figure that if I'm using a 125w blue for vegging, I must be doubling the lifespan of the Red 250w I have whilst also saving on the electric.

If it is only slightly better to have a blue, would that mean that a 250w Red would still be better for vegging than a 125w Blue?

Also, is it important to have them under 24/0 or 16/8 lights from the very moment they begin to sprout out of the soil?

 

[usualsuspect]

Seeds are all cracking (whoop!) but which compost to use?

Looks like stuff is happening with all the seeds. I used a well-cleaned cafetiere with tap water left to warm to room temperature, so that by pushing down the grill I could totally submerge the seeds.

After several hours all the seeds had sunk, indicating that water had breached the shell. I then removed the seeds, placed them in damp kitchen towel, folded them up and placed them in a tupperware container. After 48 hours in a dark cupboard wrapped in a towel, they are all swelling and cracking.

So! Soon it will be time to plant these mothers! I have two types of compost I could use:

1) North Norfolk 'Committed to compost' Peat-free compost with nutrients (though it doesn't say what) that claims to be for everything from trees to flowers to veggies...

or

2) Arthur Bowers reduced peat compost with something called sincro-boost (anyone know what that means?!) with NPK

Anyone have any experience with these composts? Any ideas which might be best? Any tips for initial planting?

 

[usualsuspect]

Planting the germinated seeds..

Where I don't get replies in time, I shall endeavour to research and answer them myself and post my findings on here... hopefully no one will arrive too late to tell me I've done it all wrong!

Here's a pic of the germinated seeds when ready to plant:

I went with the Arthur Bowers compost, partly because sincro-boost sounds helpful (well done their marketing..) and partly because I went out and bought Arthur Bowers Perlite and figured I'd keep it consistent! For those who don't know, Perlite is a volcanic rock (I think it's classed as a glass) which retains lots of oxygen and water whilst making it difficult to over-water. I mixed 3 parts compost to 1 part perlite (the perlite was about £7 for a bag plenty big enough for a couple of grows).

Here's a pic of the compost/Perlite mix:

I mixed up the compost and Perlite, filled the 6 inch pots and made a hole around 1.5cm - 2cm deep with a pencil. I dropped the seeds in with the root facing down, though once it's in the hole it seems to fall any which way... figuring it's best to not be too forceful with them, I settled for a couple being on their sides! There seems to be a little confusion as to whether it matters, indeed some people seem to insist on doing it root up! Either way, the majority say root down so that's what I aimed for.

Something else I found was warnings against using any fertiliser until the shoots have appeared and the plant is transplanted (once the first leaves are visible and healthy) into a bigger pot. As someone said, you don't need to feed steak to a baby.. the nutrients in the soil, if decent, will be plenty enough.

So, next questions if anyone cares to contribute are these... I already have plant food in the form of Osmocote Plant Food Tablets (10 11 18) that claim to release nutrients slowly over the course of the whole grow. Has anyone got any experience with this sort of plant food and is it an OK mix of nutrients? I've read that when it comes to flowering, it's simply a case of taking the tablet out a couple of weeks before harvest and I must admit the ease of it is tempting (though if it aint the right mix, I will happily get something else)

Also, I have a 250w Red CFL at present, is this overkill for seedlings or is it simply a case of more light is better whatever stage of development?

 

[usualsuspect]

I don't like this bit! After a few days of checking on my seeds and being able to see their progress, it's not nice putting them under soil and having to wait, fingers crossed, to see when they might sprout up out of the soil!

 

[usualsuspect]

Anyone know how long it should take roughly from planting the germinated seeds to the sprouts showing through the soil?

 

[shottie]

You should see them within a week or so. As for your cfl bulb situation, if energy costs and longlife of the bulbs is such an issue i would go ahead and get both bulbs.

 

[usualsuspect]

That's what I'm thinking shottie... you agree that a 125W Blue would be enough to veg three plants in a scrog?

If it wasn't for the fact that one has already sprouted (whoop!) just under 24 hours after I planted, I don't think I could last a week worrying about my unseen babies! I've become rather attached to them already!

Here's a pic:

Hopefully the other two will sprout soon. My box still has to be painted and the lights and fan installed. Looks like the box will get done on Tuesday, i'm guessing the plants will be OK on the windowsill till then won't they? I'm taking them off the sill at night because I don't want them to get too cold.

 

[usualsuspect]

OK, I've gone ahead and got the 125w Blue now so that it will hopefully be here when the box is finished. General consensus on the net seems to be that 125w Blue CFL would be adequate to veg three scrogged plants, so long as everything is optimum. Also the thought of doubling the number of grows my 250w Red is good for makes too much sense not to go ahead and invest.

 

[usualsuspect]

Right, so regarding my questions on seedlings need for light, seems the consensus is that it's important to provide plenty of light from the moment they sprout. I was a little concerned my 250w Red would be too much, but it's heat that hurts little seedlings, not too much light (maybe no such thing?)

So, with this in mind (and the fact that my box aint gonna be fully ready till Tuesday) I have set up a temporary rig in my box. I didn't have the white paint yet so I taped up printer paper all around under the light (tip... masking tape peels off when subjected to the light/heat... use normal clear sticky tape), screwed a couple of hooks into what will eventually be the side of the box and hung the light using clothes line like that you'd use in the garden.

Here's a pic:

Since I took that pic, I've actually put a plastic ice cream tub under the plants to lift them to around 6" from the light. The reason for tunring the box that way round was so that I could leave the door open a bit if it got too hot (sicne I haven't rigged up the PC fan yet.. no 12v plug lead nor tools till tomorrow). Good job I did. With the door open a crack, temps reached 90F (much too warm). Open a bit further, and the heat dropped to 78F. Lovely.

Here's a pic of the early bloomer:

As you can see, I have placed the thermometer alongside the plants, at the same height. Remember you need to know how hot the plants are, not just the box! I'm dead chuffed... I've actually got something that looks like a grow-box, complete with plants! Whoop! Whoop!

Watch this space!

 

[usualsuspect]

oh, and number two is showing now! Double Whoop! Fool me, I didn't label the seeds pre-germination so no idea which is which! Will people be able to tell different strains later on?

 

[Megas]

You going to add a fan in there? Might be of interest

 

[usualsuspect]

Probably not..

I did consider a fan, but the advice I got was that since the plants weren't gonna grow very high (I'm gonna scrog fairly low down) I probably wouldn't need one.

I've got a 120mm PC fan that I'm gonna install at stalk height near the bottom of the box, and rooms a bit tight anyhow.

All three are out and growing now, less than 72 hours after I started the germination process! Considering it says germination can take between 2-5 days, they are shooting along nicely!

Checked the temperature overnight, it's staying a steady 80F with the door open. I'm hoping it doesn't get any hotter once I have the fan installed and close the door a couple of inches. I'll have a 125w Blue in their instead of the 250w Red in a couple of days so that should bring it down to the mid 70's I would have thought.

How quick do the roots grow? They are in pots about 4" high at the moment, I figure I would change pots in a couple of days, when they should all be 3-4" high and the box is complete.

Also, will they stress if I bring them from the 250w Red to the outdoors during this nice sunny day? It's nice and sunny out and I'll be working in my garden finishing the greenhouse today. Figure I might just give'em natural sunlight and save on leccy while I can

 

[casmel]

Good stuff , i wanna see the outcome of this 250W CFL light , i watched them on the net . Roots grow pretty fast , its important that you switch to powerful lihtning when they get bigger then the growth intensifies and dont overwater them , put some rocks on the soil .
And think something out for the night ventilation maybe and keep the room lightsealed , keep the temps normal and it will be fine . GL