20+ year old seeds, let's grow 'em

NorthernOrganics · Jan 11, 2023

To recap:
Two out of 24 seeds planted are growing so far. The first six were in a paper towel and scarified, they turned to mush. Then I soaked six in a strong peroxide solution (24hr) and planted them all in one planter, one grew, looks great now. I looked for the other 5 seeds in the soil, didn't find them and they got mixed into the soil, lone ranger took over the planter. Then I planted six seeds directly into moist fluffy soil with mycorrhizae, nothing has popped yet. Then soaked six more in a weak peroxide solution (24hr) and planted in the same planters off to the side, one popped. Still have 11 in the dirt that could still germinate. It seems that both times I soaked a batch of six seeds in a peroxide solution, I got one to go. That will be the first step going forward. Let's hope for some more to pop.

elusiveshame · Jan 12, 2023

I’m excited for you!

smokedareefer · Jan 12, 2023

NorthernOrganics said:
To recap:
Two out of 24 seeds planted are growing so far. The first six were in a paper towel and scarified, they turned to mush. Then I soaked six in a strong peroxide solution (24hr) and planted them all in one planter, one grew, looks great now. I looked for the other 5 seeds in the soil, didn't find them and they got mixed into the soil, lone ranger took over the planter. Then I planted six seeds directly into moist fluffy soil with mycorrhizae, nothing has popped yet. Then soaked six more in a weak peroxide solution (24hr) and planted in the same planters off to the side, one popped. Still have 11 in the dirt that could still germinate. It seems that both times I soaked a batch of six seeds in a peroxide solution, I got one to go. That will be the first step going forward. Let's hope for some more to pop. View attachment 1319168 View attachment 1319169

Then I soaked six in a strong peroxide solution
Whats the ratio of water and peroxide? I have some 15 yr old seeds to pop. The first first 6 in paper towel and water did nothing. Tia

PurpleGreen · Jan 12, 2023

20 year old seed, that's crazy!

SweetLeafGrow · Jan 12, 2023

smokedareefer said:
Whats the ratio of water and peroxide?

I have done the H2O2 soak before and had 100% success, although I am not trying to sprout old seeds. I use it with RO water at a ratio of 1:1.

NorthernOrganics · Jan 12, 2023

First soak was a 2:1 solution with 3% h2o2. That was a strong solution. The second soak was around 20:1, both soaks yielded one growing seed out of six. All the seeds looked healthier after soaking in the strong solution. The weak solution got cloudy and one seed floated/turned dark. I am going to stick with 2:1 water:peroxide.

Harpua88 · Jan 13, 2023

PurpleGreen said:
20 year old seed, that's crazy!

It's amazing how long seeds could last, of course under the right conditions, which usually means kept cold/dormant. I wonder how long they can be kept, probably in a freezer, but well wrapped and preserved. I think I read something once about dusting with a fungicide. They can't completely dry out, but they can't get frozen/damaged either......I guess what would amount to freezer burn. But if they can be stored in ideal conditions, they could probably last 50 years or more.

I also wonder about the health/vigor of old seeds, maybe anyone with experience with old seeds can comment? Do old seeds grow more slowly with less vigor? Do old seeds produce an "old plant"? Or is it that once they pop and take root they're just like a "new" seed, ready to grow at the same rate as if they weren't stored for a long time....?

Harpua88 · Jan 13, 2023

NorthernOrganics said:
First soak was a 2:1 solution with 3% h2o2. That was a strong solution. The second soak was around 20:1, both soaks yielded one growing seed out of six. All the seeds looked healthier after soaking in the strong solution. The weak solution got cloudy and one seed floated/turned dark. I am going to stick with 2:1 water:peroxide.

Can I ask what it is that Hydrogen Peroxide does? I've actually never heard of soaking seeds in it, or maybe I glossed over reading it, but I know Peroxide as this cleaning agent that can foam up.......we use it on cuts, mix it with baking soda to clean things.....teeth....

I would think it's slightly corrosive or even a little poisonous........obviously I'm wrong, but what does it do that's better than water?

Edinburg · Jan 13, 2023

Some will pop, I regularly pop seeds 8 or 9 years old, however I put the vials in a coffee jar filled with rice and keep in fridge, but again some will pop.

bongsmoker421 · Jan 13, 2023

Harpua88 said:
Can I ask what it is that Hydrogen Peroxide does? I've actually never heard of soaking seeds in it, or maybe I glossed over reading it, but I know Peroxide as this cleaning agent that can foam up.......we use it on cuts, mix it with baking soda to clean things.....teeth....

I would think it's slightly corrosive or even a little poisonous........obviously I'm wrong, but what does it do that's better than water?

water is h20. hyrdrogen peroxide is h202 just water with an extra Oxygen atom. The solution gives your seeds extra oxygen also cleans and sterilizes the seed surface of bacteria or mold spore that might grow after it hits water. it's also helps soften the old hard shell

Harpua88 · Jan 13, 2023

bongsmoker421 said:
water is h20. hyrdrogen peroxide is h202 just water with an extra Oxygen atom. The solution gives your seeds extra oxygen also cleans and sterilizes the seed surface of bacteria or mold spore that might grow after it hits water. it's also helps soften the old hard shell

I know that part, silly.... ;). I took grammar school science. He he he.....I get that it can help sterilize it, of course if it's soaked too long or too strong it could be a problem, but softening the shell......that makes sense, that's what could help it pop easier......I didn't think of that. Thank you......

So Peroxide could help with certain varieties that are more notorious for having difficult seeds? I've read about a few where the germination rate is just naturally low, and sometimes people "crack" them........that's gotta be nerve-wracking.......

elusiveshame · Jan 13, 2023

Harpua88 said:
It's amazing how long seeds could last, of course under the right conditions, which usually means kept cold/dormant. I wonder how long they can be kept, probably in a freezer, but well wrapped and preserved. I think I read something once about dusting with a fungicide. They can't completely dry out, but they can't get frozen/damaged either......I guess what would amount to freezer burn. But if they can be stored in ideal conditions, they could probably last 50 years or more.

I also wonder about the health/vigor of old seeds, maybe anyone with experience with old seeds can comment? Do old seeds grow more slowly with less vigor? Do old seeds produce an "old plant"? Or is it that once they pop and take root they're just like a "new" seed, ready to grow at the same rate as if they weren't stored for a long time....?

I would imagine they would lose their vigor over time. Idk how long it takes, but seeds 2000+ years old have been germinated.

But that’s why the world seed bank is in a very controlled environment - to slow down deterioration as much as possible.

It’s awesome to see such old seeds sprout, though.

Harpua88 · Jan 13, 2023

elusiveshame said:
I would imagine they would lose their vigor over time. Idk how long it takes, but seeds 2000+ years old have been germinated.

But that’s why the world seed bank is in a very controlled environment - to slow down deterioration as much as possible.

It’s awesome to see such old seeds sprout, though.

Yeah that stuff is cool and I'm glad they're preserving things. I think I read there's something like 35 different varieties of bananas? Including purple.......we eat the same 1 variety, mass produced. I want a purple banana!! :)

I wonder if the plant really does lose vigor. Not a perfect comparison, but with people......frozen embryos......the people that are born are perfectly normal. We haven't tried 100+ year old embryos yet, but it seems like once an older one starts growing it's just as good as a new one. Once a plant seed pops, that stage is over, it just had a really long dormant stage. Once it pops........after 1 year or after 50 years, and starts it's life outside of the shell, isn't that sort of itself "day 1"?

elusiveshame · Jan 13, 2023

Harpua88 said:
Yeah that stuff is cool and I'm glad they're preserving things. I think I read there's something like 35 different varieties of bananas? Including purple.......we eat the same 1 variety, mass produced. I want a purple banana!! :)

I wonder if the plant really does lose vigor. Not a perfect comparison, but with people......frozen embryos......the people that are born are perfectly normal. We haven't tried 100+ year old embryos yet, but it seems like once an older one starts growing it's just as good as a new one. Once a plant seed pops, that stage is over, it just had a really long dormant stage. Once it pops........after 1 year or after 50 years, and starts it's life outside of the shell, isn't that sort of itself "day 1"?

Bananas is one of the most dangerous commodity, as ironic as that sounds.

We only eat 1 banana because of the virus/fungus that kills banana trees (and spreads very quickly, which is why we’re down to 1 now since the 70’s or some such).

As for the rest - you may be right. I do wonder if the earths environment has changed enough to affect 1000 year old seeds vigor once sprouted.

Edit: I do believe frozen embryos lose viability over time. If the human body can’t survived 20+ years in a cryo state, I doubt a human embryo would last long.

NorthernOrganics · Jan 13, 2023

Harpua88 said:
Can I ask what it is that Hydrogen Peroxide does? I've actually never heard of soaking seeds in it, what does it do that's better than water?

I used it based on some research and forethought about what nasties could be laying dormant on the seed surface waiting to infect the taproot. I also read that the h202 will help soften or scarify the seed surface to allow water penetration. The seeds that went into a stronger solution of h202 physically looked healthier afterwards. The weak solution got cloudy so I assume it wasn't strong enough to kill off everything and some micro life were able to bloom in the water.

NorthernOrganics · Jan 13, 2023

Update on the two that grew. Had to peel the shell off the baby one, it was very hard and brittle.

Leeboy · Jan 13, 2023

The 1st one is rockin

NorthernOrganics · Jan 13, 2023

Leeboy said:
The 1st one is rockin

It is surprising me. Not what I expected when I started messing with these old seeds. It's growing great.

Harpua88 · Jan 15, 2023

NorthernOrganics said:
I used it based on some research and forethought about what nasties could be laying dormant on the seed surface waiting to infect the taproot. I also read that the h202 will help soften or scarify the seed surface to allow water penetration. The seeds that went into a stronger solution of h202 physically looked healthier afterwards. The weak solution got cloudy so I assume it wasn't strong enough to kill off everything and some micro life were able to bloom in the water.

Doesn't H2O2 kindbof foam up a bit when in cintact with/killing bacteria and such?

I eish I had seeds so old they needed to siak in Peroxide......man am I dumb, argh!!!! :(

NorthernOrganics · Jan 16, 2023

It bubbles in my experience. And I observed small bubbles on the seed surface in both solutions. The strong solution stayed clear and the bubbles were still there 24 hours later. The weak solution turned murky/cloudy and no more bubbles.

20+ year old seeds, let's grow 'em

20+ year old seeds, let's grow 'em

NorthernOrganics

elusiveshame

smokedareefer

PurpleGreen

SweetLeafGrow

NorthernOrganics

Harpua88

Harpua88

Edinburg

bongsmoker421

Harpua88

elusiveshame

Harpua88

elusiveshame

NorthernOrganics

NorthernOrganics

Leeboy

NorthernOrganics

Harpua88

NorthernOrganics

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