250W MH/HPS Switchable and 400W HPS - Recommendations?

[Kampbe1l]

starting to look at HID for small grow chamber.

please note that I'm in Australia, so we probably have different stock and different pricing, etc. to what you lucky ones have access to.

I was looking at 2 separate scenarios - a small 250W MH for a vegetative grow & 400W HPS to flower. my first immediate focus is on that 250W setup, later I want to get into indoor flowering (maybe, if i'm allowed).

I saw switchable ballasts for 250W - I just wondered what features/specifications should I look at when buying such HID? And what should I look for, in general terms, when deciding which 250W or 400W to purchase, besides price?

The reflector is an area of concern for me - i don't like those wing-shaped ones, but I can be convinced.

My supplementary question is what sort of exhaust/carbon-filter setup should I look at, running 250W/400W (just one, not both) HID?

 

[hillbil]

You might want to consider going with LED COBs or Quantum Boards as they are far more efficient and HPS is becoming obsolete and especially among personal growers. Much less heat relative to light produced. Another alternative would be 315w CMH.

 

[Kampbe1l]

You might want to consider going with LED COBs or Quantum Boards as they are far more efficient and HPS is becoming obsolete and especially among personal growers. Much less heat relative to light produced. Another alternative would be 315w CMH.

no, not familiar with those formats. yes, i am old school.

as i'm not familiar, just googling details....come back here to edit later....

 

[oldskol4evr]

starting to look at HID for small grow chamber.

please note that I'm in Australia, so we probably have different stock and different pricing, etc. to what you lucky ones have access to.

I was looking at 2 separate scenarios - a small 250W MH for a vegetative grow & 400W HPS to flower. my first immediate focus is on that 250W setup, later I want to get into indoor flowering (maybe, if i'm allowed).

I saw switchable ballasts for 250W - I just wondered what features/specifications should I look at when buying such HID? And what should I look for, in general terms, when deciding which 250W or 400W to purchase, besides price?

The reflector is an area of concern for me - i don't like those wing-shaped ones, but I can be convinced.

My supplementary question is what sort of exhaust/carbon-filter setup should I look at, running 250W/400W (just one, not both) HID?

save a little money and just buy the dimmable 400 watt,250 would be 25% on the dimmer,run that in veg and as they start building up work your way to 50%,i do the steps to 50 thru veg last 2 weeks im vegging i bring it up to 75% and run my MH bulb first 2 weeks of flower,imo i get less stretch,im in the south and heat is a big issue,i dont crank my 100% to im about 5 weeks in,do a 6inch exhaust and filter combo if you can get fresh intake in use a scrubber,if not ,i use a 6in intake combo,i have too i run mine with no ac or heat,just the lights and during the night there on instead of day,work both exhaust and intake to ave a tad bit of negative pressure in a tent,in a room id go for just cool during summer months hahah

 

[oldskol4evr]

You might want to consider going with LED COBs or Quantum Boards as they are far more efficient and HPS is becoming obsolete and especially among personal growers. Much less heat relative to light produced. Another alternative would be 315w CMH.

have no clue were you come up with obsolete,thing is there are some still out just to grow medicine and the bells and whistle are out of budget and most i know have gone back to old reliable and got out of the gimmick gig as far as cost versus product,i fell for this statement last summer and got 2 400 watt led lights,them damn things run hotter than my hid lighting,there is no closed hood to suck that heat out on them at all,my tent ran 15 degree hotter in already triple digits outside,i run with forced wind and them damn things didnt get the job done,just another light to add to the same gimmicks before it,obsolete haaaah

 

[Kampbe1l]

......i fell for this statement last summer and got 2 400 watt led lights,them damn things run hotter than my hid lighting....

what are you running (dimensions. yield, lights, etc, anything)?

and what would you recommend, MH/HPS/CMH?

save a little money and just buy the dimmable 400 watt,250 would be 25% on the dimmer,run that in veg and as they start building up work your way to 50%,i do the steps to 50 thru veg last 2 weeks im vegging i bring it up to 75% and run my MH bulb first 2 weeks of flower,imo i get less stretch,im in the south and heat is a big issue,i dont crank my 100% to im about 5 weeks in,do a 6inch exhaust and filter combo if you can get fresh intake in use a scrubber,if not ,i use a 6in intake combo,i have too i run mine with no ac or heat,just the lights and during the night there on instead of day,work both exhaust and intake to ave a tad bit of negative pressure in a tent,in a room id go for just cool during summer months hahah

give me an idea - what hardware do you run exactly? i ask, because i need an anchor, for everyone to be as descriptive as they can helpfully be....

the dimmables 600w CMH is around $600AUD, while 250W switchable MH/HPS are around $160AUD.

-------------------

i like the idea of either

(a) switchable small (250W) HID, particularly MH because I intend to grow vegetative (not flowering) - however, switchable to HPS to flower.

or

(b) dimmable CMH 600W (?)

CMH is totally new to me, along with those COB LEDs - so again, doing some googling. I saw dimmable 600w CMH, didn't see any 400w CMH, though let me check....

 

[oldskol4evr]

what are you running (dimensions. yield, lights, etc, anything)?

and what would you recommend, MH/HPS/CMH?



give me an idea - what hardware do you run exactly? i ask, because i need an anchor, for everyone to be as descriptive as they can helpfully be....

the dimmables 600w CMH is around $600AUD, while 250W switchable MH/HPS are around $160AUD.

-------------------

i like the idea of either

(a) switchable small (250W) HID, particularly MH because I intend to grow vegetative (not flowering) - however, switchable to HPS to flower.

or

(b) dimmable CMH 600W (?)

CMH is totally new to me, along with those COB LEDs - so again, doing some googling. I saw dimmable 600w CMH, didn't see any 400w CMH, though let me check....

i use just a cheap apollo 400 watt dimmible switch,got the light a MH & HPS bulb 2 ratchet straps 6in fan and filter combo for 125 us dollars 4 yrs ago and still running,i run a 2x4x5 tent and it just right,ive talked to several buddies that run same gear except with 600 watt,they cliam they have used the 1k and it was to much and 600 is just right for a 4x4 tent,my tent is half that so 400 works perfect and i got that bat wing hood with the bundle,that is pure shit,get a cool tube and exhaust it out pulling from the bulb end

 

[Galvatron]

Search Vivosun grow light on Amazon. There is a 600 Watt setup with nice reflector, rope hangars, timer, 600W MH and 600W HPS lamps. All this for $159.99. As a side, the digital ballast can be set to 400W and 250W and will work with both MH and HPS.
NOTE: There are many different affordable setups to explore there.

 

[Kampbe1l]

i use just a cheap apollo 400 watt dimmible switch,got the light a MH & HPS bulb 2 ratchet straps 6in fan and filter combo for 125 us dollars 4 yrs ago and still running,i run a 2x4x5 tent

that's the sort of hardware that i thought would suffice for my current purposes.

do you grow particular strains which are bushier or LTS/SoG in such a grow area?

what tent do you have, DIY?

so, you grow vegetative under MH, then switch to HPS for flowering in the same grow chamber?

Search Vivosun grow light on Amazon. There is a 600 Watt setup with nice reflector, rope hangars, timer, 600W MH and 600W HPS lamps. All this for $159.99. As a side, the digital ballast can be set to 400W and 250W and will work with both MH and HPS.
NOTE: There are many different affordable setups to explore there.

okay. might have to wonder into a brick & mortar store, intending to purchase, but just to pick more brains, see what's in stock.

-----------------

many years ago, i grew using 600W HPS - and I found that size then comfortable to handle, both in heat and size. i tried 1000W setups with light movers running flood & drain, but struggled mainly with its heat. so, i figured that 600W or less - but presently somewhere between 250 and 400W setup would fit.

will have a look over this weekend, at what's what.

 

[oldskol4evr]

that's the sort of hardware that i thought would suffice for my current purposes.

do you grow particular strains which are bushier or LTS/SoG in such a grow area?

what tent do you have, DIY?

so, you grow vegetative under MH, then switch to HPS for flowering in the same grow chamber?



okay. might have to wonder into a brick & mortar store, intending to purchase, but just to pick more brains, see what's in stock.

-----------------

many years ago, i grew using 600W HPS - and I found that size then comfortable to handle, both in heat and size. i tried 1000W setups with light movers running flood & drain, but struggled mainly with its heat. so, i figured that 600W or less - but presently somewhere between 250 and 400W setup would fit.

will have a look over this weekend, at what's what.

i grow start to finis in my 2x4x5 tent,mh up to the third week of flower with the MH it keeps the stretch down ,i also manupilate the light height to slow them down,it a little tent and training starts in veg,i run 6 plants in 1 gal pot to acheieve this in the tent,when they get 18 in tall i flip to flower,by harvest time the plants are around 2 1/2 ft tall to 3 ft,my tent doesnt even have a brand name ,so dont know who made it,got it off ebay many years ago ,just a cheap bitch with tape all over it hahahah,i got it to breed in and when i moved that the only thing i got to grow in,if i remember right probally wrong ,got the tent with a 4in fan and filter combo for under 100 bucks,reason i mentioned the forced air yesterday,no ac or heat,it sits in a utility room going outside more a less a feed room ahahahah,exhaust fan wide open and intake fan with filter pulling in filtered outside air,get the cool tube if your ever stuck doing the same you wont regret it

 

[oldskol4evr]

this is what im talking abo

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[oldskol4evr]

this is what im talking aboView attachment 876704View attachment 876705View attachment 876703ut.

i built the lid on top were the sides just suck against the edge to hold my sheets on ,then as you see in other pic the box,the box is cut were it looks just like i been moving and storing stuff in the utility room,the box goes around the intake on floor closing it in ,the back 3 in against the wall pulls the outside air in from the back and keep all dirt and dust from clogging the filter,same thing on top a box with insulation and cut out for no trapping of exhausting air,once it on top looks like a damn storage locker in there,i mentioned tape,well that is why i have the sheets across the front,to keep from any light leaks in flower,a table on edge holds it all together looking like a storage room hahahah a pain in the ass daily to move the bitch indeed,i have controler to adjust neg pressure 1 for intake one for exhaust,i keep one them big box fans by the door to outside ,and it runs 24/7 if any kids or grand kids walk by they just think i aint going in there were shit can fall on me,they dont go there a good thing and in reality it is a getto climate controled storage locker hahahh.
you got to realize and all you younger folks ,when it comes to tricks and gimmicks that when i was coming up you never threw anything away that was still together,every thing was at least tried to be repaired and parts of shit lay every were,hard times is something you never ever forget,use all you can then thrash it if you dig,so call me a dinosar ,i am i was forced to be and school ha it lasted 8yrs,which explains why i cant spell for shit hahahahha

 

[Ace9137]

Try out HTG, I got a 400 watt mag. ballast, bulb, ect. for 120 US, I think you can get their stuff on Amazon, I am using it myself, not a bad deal and the bulbs are not bad.

 

[Kampbe1l]

this is what im talking aboView attachment 876704View attachment 876705View attachment 876703ut.

that light fixture is something I am not familiar with.

the other setups has those traditional wing-shaped reflectors.

had a look at the local stores here and their stock of HID lighting & 12" exhaust & carbon filter - so, now have a better idea, at least of the prices I'm looking at. we're backwards so our range of products is more limited, and importing (especially wary of electronics) can be, if not expensive - just plain pain in the arse.

gunning for a switchable & dimmable 400W HPS/MH.

 

[oldskol4evr]

that light fixture is something I am not familiar with.

the other setups has those traditional wing-shaped reflectors.

had a look at the local stores here and their stock of HID lighting & 12" exhaust & carbon filter - so, now have a better idea, at least of the prices I'm looking at. we're backwards so our range of products is more limited, and importing (especially wary of electronics) can be, if not expensive - just plain pain in the arse.

gunning for a switchable & dimmable 400W HPS/MH.

just a tube with glass the bulb in one end other open,i have my exhaust sucking heat right from the bulb,pulls other heat from inside the tent across the bulb and exhaust,hell of a lot better than the bat wings unless you have serious cfm fan,if your doing a tent get a controler were you can jack with the fans 12in be sucking the tent in and then exhaust hahahah

 

[Kampbe1l]

had a further look - different thoughts now - thinking of either 315W CMH or 600W Digital Ballast (switchable HPS/MH & dimmable 600/400/250W) HID.

thinking 315W CMH as it would cover both vegetable and then flowering with same light fixture - or this digital 600W HID setup where I can presently use the lower 250W MH/HPS setup. one stage swung to getting CMH, now leaning back towards dig HID ballast instead. Gavita branding seems the go.

my focus presently is on its hood - as i have just a limited amount of space - 60 cm W x 60 cm L x 160 cm H (sorry, 2" W x 2" L x 5+" H). I'm not intending to run at 400/600W, but my thoughts have started to flow towards another grow chamber. one task at a time, and first immediate task is to set up the present grow area before expanding.

i just am not familiar with COB/LED - interested, but a little lost as to where to start, there.

also, started to look at inline fans & carbon filters setups - again, another unfamiliar territory. i'm sussing first what is available locally, then researching to see which one might fit my bill.

 

[BigCube]

It seems to be an ongoing battle between led and hid. I have used both. And while it is true that some LEDs overwhelmingly underperform. There are many that crush hid in every aspect.

Buying the wrong led, or not doing your research before you buy one does not mean all LEDs suck. It means you didn't do your research, or you bought the wrong led.

That being said, if you buy an hid.. you know exactly what you're getting. For those who would rather be certain and not have to research their purchases or risk buying the wrong led, hid is absolutely the best bet.

But if you get the right led, it can be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, much less heat than hid and much more light (par) than hid hands down.

Pretending that LEDs arent as good and in some cases better than hid is just silly. Its ignoring facts and evidence to the contrary. And makes the person doing so untrustworthy. Since we care more about facts than we do opinion.

Right now I am running a 250w led in a 3x3 tent. I used to use 400w hps. The led I use now out performs my 400w hps almost 3 times. Indeed it outperforms a 1000w hps as dictated by par values.
It only changes the temp in my tent by 2 or 3 degrees Celsius, and it was cheaper than any hid both to buy and run.

So dont listen to the hype on both sides.
Some LEDs are better than hid, some LEDs are not. Do your research, buy the light for your needs. Dont listen to people who obviously have a bias against o e or the other.

 

[hillbil]

Been using white LEDs and COBs and nothing else for 5 years and they clearly outdo HPS at my house. Manageable heat and incredible penetration and final product is excellent. Only HID that would interest me is the Philips 315w CMH.

 

[Kampbe1l]

i'm not disputing that COB/LEDs work - it's just that i am unfamiliar, and also I suspect our (australian) market doesn't have the wide range that is available o/s. And there is a lot of claims (marketing hype) which I need to cut thru.

i've nailed down to a couple of choices as far as CMH and HPS/MH - and the price does range from $700 AUD to $350 ($250 USD to $500 USD). But I want to stack that up against some COB/LEDs.

I am researching on what COB/LEDs are available locally first, before doing any research on the products itself.

I probably will end up with all these lights - CMH, HID and COB.....anyway, one step at a time....

so, what sort of COB/LEDs am I looking at?

 

[hillbil]

Check Timber for COBs and HLG for Quantum Boards, Hortibloom has huge sale on COBS fixtures up to 70% sale. Citizen , Cree and Vero COBs similar in performance. Even Mars TS an Sp series. Any research I’ve done shows that Philips brand cmh bulbs are noticeably better than others.