4x8 or 5x5? Need advice on expanding flower room.

[MidniteGardener]

Hi, I'm a long time lurker but this is my first post. Sorry for the long text but I feel the details are important in helping me choose my next move.

First, a little about myself and my setup:

I started off a few years ago with a 400w magnetic HPS, Super Sun 2 air cooled reflector, Vortec fan, Can filter, and a Secret Jardin DR120. I spent the first year just experimenting with different strains growing in soil and learning to clone. After that I upgraded to a 600w Lumatek. Huge difference in quality and yield in my setup.

Fast forward a couple years and I got a second DR120, bought a 1000w Lumatek adjustable ballast, and a Sun Systems Blockbuster with an 8" Vortec. I currently have the two tents set up in the same room with an 8000btu window a/c cooling it all. I use the 400w magnetic for my preveg/mother tent, and the 1K for my flower. Oh and I'm growing in coco, hand watered with Canna nutrients. I love coco and I feel like I have it fairly dialed.

......


SO, one would think I'd be happy with all of that, but I want to move to a setup that will yield more at once instead of doing small runs in a 4x4. I'm trying to decide on going with either a 4x8 or a 5x5 for my flowering tent. I'm trying to keep things kind of stealthy as far as power usage goes, so definitely under 2000 watts. The only thing is with a 4x8 you need multiple lights to cover it. Now, I could go with 2x or 3x 600w, but that would mean a lot of extra equipment, or I could just run 2x 1kw, but I think I would be running too much amperage on my 120v 20 amp dedicated circuit since each 1k uses about 9 amps.

I know this has been debated a lot, but in my experience the 1k produces better quality buds than the 600. And this is with the same cut, monocropped, same nutrients and same environment every time. The 1K produced the best product bar none. It's just that they use so much damn juice! I tried doing a perpetual garden with a 600 in each tent with offset flower cycles so I could harvest each month, but that seemed like constant work.

I 'd like to hear any advice you guys have. Tell me your experience with either of these spaces or light combinations, or even suggest something else you know could work out. I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Natural]

ya it's much easier to step up to 6's than to step down to 6's..lol. Texas Kid has a thread on here where he compares yields in different set ups..he was killing it in a 5x5 with a dual arc 1K. You should try and find that thread, lots of good info.
From my perspective..I would be moving up to 2 1ks in the 4x8. Ya just have to invest the $ to get there...and find an additional circuit to use. I don't worry about the electric bill...it's part of the investment. Unless your landlord is paying your bill...a 2K room will never be enough to raise suspicion.

 

[ttystikk]

I heard the limit on wattage was your 20 amp circuit. IME, one supplemented thouie in a 4x8 tent can work very well, as follows;

1. place the big hood as high as possible in the tent offset from the center somewhat, so that it's placed about 1/3 of the way across the space.

2. Use a 600, or even better an LED, near the far end and hang it lower to boost intensity. Be sure all HID bulbs/hoods are oriented so they are perpendicular to the long axis of the tent.

3. Use a swamp cooler to blow cool, moist air into the tent near the bottom and actively pull air from near the top, just not too fast, so as to give the swamper a chance to keep up.

4. With this kind of active cross ventilation, unvented hoods will not overheat the tent, so use an adjust-a-wing to boost lumens on leaves per watt efficiency.

Creative choices of bulbs in this setup whip allow you to do different things at either end of the tent; early/peak bloom under the big bulb, late bloom under the smaller one. That's why I think a 600w MH or equivalent plasma or LED could be an excellent complement to a 1kW HPS main bulb.

It is more important than you might guess to keep your humidity up, even in bloom, so the swamper is important, and you're getting up to the size where a serious environmental controller will make a real difference. Get one that can handle CO2 enrichment, even if you don't plan to use it yet.

 

[MidniteGardener]

ya it's much easier to step up to 6's than to step down to 6's..lol. Texas Kid has a thread on here where he compares yields in different set ups..he was killing it in a 5x5 with a dual arc 1K. You should try and find that thread, lots of good info.
From my perspective..I would be moving up to 2 1ks in the 4x8. Ya just have to invest the $ to get there...and find an additional circuit to use. I don't worry about the electric bill...it's part of the investment. Unless your landlord is paying your bill...a 2K room will never be enough to raise suspicion.

I've seen some of Texas Kid's posts around here. That guy pro, so I'll try to search for that thread. I know I saw one where he got 2lbs off a single 600. Don't know what I'm doing wrong there but it's probably strain related. I've also seen some grows in a 5x5 that yielded around 2lbs. When you compare sizes a 4x8 is 32 sq. ft. and a 5x5 is 25ft, so there's only a 7 sq ft difference. But going from a 4x4 to a 5x5 is a 60% jump in space.

I heard the limit on wattage was your 20 amp circuit. IME, one supplemented thouie in a 4x8 tent can work very well, as follows;

1. place the big hood as high as possible in the tent offset from the center somewhat, so that it's placed about 1/3 of the way across the space.

2. Use a 600, or even better an LED, near the far end and hang it lower to boost intensity. Be sure all HID bulbs/hoods are oriented so they are perpendicular to the long axis of the tent.

3. Use a swamp cooler to blow cool, moist air into the tent near the bottom and actively pull air from near the top, just not too fast, so as to give the swamper a chance to keep up.

4. With this kind of active cross ventilation, unvented hoods will not overheat the tent, so use an adjust-a-wing to boost lumens on leaves per watt efficiency.

Creative choices of bulbs in this setup whip allow you to do different things at either end of the tent; early/peak bloom under the big bulb, late bloom under the smaller one. That's why I think a 600w MH or equivalent plasma or LED could be an excellent complement to a 1kW HPS main bulb.

It is more important than you might guess to keep your humidity up, even in bloom, so the swamper is important, and you're getting up to the size where a serious environmental controller will make a real difference. Get one that can handle CO2 enrichment, even if you don't plan to use it yet.

That's a pretty good idea. I don't see any problem going with offset lighting like a 1000/600, or even a 1000 and a couple LEDs like you said. As a matter of fact I know a friend who has a 330w Lumigrow. I've also considered doing dual 600w HPS with my 400w MH in the middle.

The only problem I have is with the swamp cooler and adjust a wing. I live in a hot southern state, so heat and humidity is kind of an issue for me. My humidity is almost always around 50-60%, and I've had trouble running anything over 600 watts in an adjust-a-wing without my temps getting over 80F. I could always drop my window A/C another 5 degrees to make up for it.

I hear you on the greenhouse controller, which is another reason I want to get a single larger flower room instead of trying to run dual chamber/flip. It's just too much hassle and $$$ running double fans, double filters, timers etc. If I had it all in a nice 4x8 or something I could just focus on dialing that one environment.

Thanks for the tips guys.

 

[MidniteGardener]

Ok, I guess I've decided to go with the 4x8 since it has slightly more room over a 5x5, and it's more flexible/expandable. I've noticed some 5x9 tents too coming from Gorilla and Growlab. I suppose that could be really good for slightly more space on the end for fans/dehumidifier and whatnot.

For now I'm going to work on making my 4x4 setup as productive as possible over the next couple runs. Meanwhile I'm going to plan out my 4x8 expansion and figure out if I need to upgrade my electrical to 240v. I might even grab a 3x3 econojet ebb and flow and try to replicate Texas Kid's 2lb but with a 1k light.

Right now I'm doing just under a elbow with a short veg time and a fairly low yielding strain in SOG. Going to do a run of Jack Herer and see if I can do better. Ideally I want to do about 8-10 plants and get no less than 2lb every 3 months.

 

[LexLuthor]

I think you made a good decision going with the 4x8 tent. Good luck.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

4x8 for sure. Imo i would pick 3 600's over 2 1000's any day. I just pulled 3+ off 2 600s in a 8x10.

I understand its more equipment more money, but thats what i would rock.

Since u already have a 1000 why not get another and use the dual arc bulbs. That should get u a great yield. Much luck.Z

 

[LexLuthor]

How big will your canopy be in the 4x8?? I use 2 600's in 1 reflector and it covers 6x4, so that would be an option for you if 2 1k's or 3 600's use too many amps.

I use an adjust a wing because it was $130 and it fits 2 600's, all the other hoods I looked at that fits 2 bulbs cost close to $400, so I went with the A-wing because of cost. But with the A-wing you have to buy a 2nd $50 socket to fit on the hood, so $180 total, but still alot less expensive then $380.

I think 2 1k's or 3 600's would be better, but if its too many amps 2 600's work great in 1 hood, or 2 hoods if you already have them.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Dual raptor?^^^^^

 

[ttystikk]

I'm a big fan of adjust-a-wings- light, tunable, BIG. The obvious choice unless you have no choice but to seal and vent your hoods.

 

[shawnskush]

:rolleyes:

 

[Ohiofarmer]

.................use a 4x8 sunhut tent with a 1banger on a mover.......the whole setup will cost ya under a grand and you'll get double the yeild, just about.....take it easy

 

[LexLuthor]

Dual raptor?^^^^^

I forgot what company, but I didn't want to pay that much when I'm not venting my hood anyways.

 

[MidniteGardener]

4x8 for sure. Imo i would pick 3 600's over 2 1000's any day. I just pulled 3+ off 2 600s in a 8x10.

I understand its more equipment more money, but thats what i would rock.

Since u already have a 1000 why not get another and use the dual arc bulbs. That should get u a great yield. Much luck.Z

Thanks. I have thought long and hard about going with 3x 600w, which would be about the same as 2x 1000w with less amps and less electricity over all. I'm just not convinced 600w can produce the same quality and density of buds since I've run them both with the same strain and same environment. I could be wrong though. I still might do it since I wouldn't have to make any electrical upgrades to run 600s.

The Raptor is a pretty awesome hood. I've seen it in a local grow shop setup with 1k in a 6x6 with a wilma drip system. Those plants go insane. I run a Sun Systems Blockbuster because it gives a perfect and intense 4x4 square footprint, which is kinda key in a square tent. In a small space you want your light directed down instead of bouncing off the walls.

How big will your canopy be in the 4x8?? I use 2 600's in 1 reflector and it covers 6x4, so that would be an option for you if 2 1k's or 3 600's use too many amps.

My canopy is probably going to fill up the whole 4x8 space. I run 9 plants in a 4x4 SOG right now, using LST and topping to get a nice flat canopy of buds. I'm experimenting with lower numbers to try to get the same yield. My current run is only 5 plants. In the 4x8 I was thinking 8 or 10 easy in two rows.

I'm a big fan of adjust-a-wings- light, tunable, BIG. The obvious choice unless you have no choice but to seal and vent your hoods.

As far as Adjust a wings go, I have a medium one that I used for my 400. I like it but it's just a little too hot with the 1k without an air cooled reflector.


Here's a pic of one half of my 4x4. I don't know why I cut out half the canopy in this pic, but anyways this is a really nice cut of Querkle at about week 5. I didn't pay much attention to these so I didn't really train them as well as my past runs. Still turned out and they're turning a nice shade of purple in week 7 as we speak. I'll get more pics soon.