Absolute separated from Concrete?

MTgrower · Apr 27, 2011

It says that you simply dissolve the Concrete in the solvent (alcohol), and then evaporate off the alcohol and you are left with the Absolute.

I don't understand. How does simply dissolving it and then evaporating the solvent remove the waxes?

Is there something that can be added to the solution to precipitate out the waxes?

I have done the procedure without any heat using Everclear. Blob of Concrete went in and dissolved... then the everclear was evaporated off, leaving behind a layer of transparent, amber colored, hard product. Many call this "Shatter". Is this the Absolute? Where did the waxes go?

Can someone explain the chemistry involved.

The Concrete is highly fragrant, and smells exactly like the strain from which it was extracted. The Absolute (if that is what I have) is pretty much odorless.

Read the section on Solvent Extraction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_oil#Solvent_extraction

dextr0 · Apr 27, 2011

The second wash simply breaks the bond that was there. Once that bond is broken the matter sticks to whatever it can (In my case would be a coffee filter, while still allowing the other wanted material be flexible enough to flow through the filter.

Thats as best as I can explain the situation, but If u want Ill try agian.

MTgrower · Apr 27, 2011

dextr0 said:
The second wash simply breaks the bond that was there. Once that bond is broken the matter sticks to whatever it can (In my case would be a coffee filter, while still allowing the other wanted material be flexible enough to flow through the filter.

Thats as best as I can explain the situation, but If u want Ill try agian.

I was assuming that some form of mechanical filtration or separation would have to be part of the process, but they make no mention of anything like that in the wiki entry.

But, I've actually done this, with no filtration, and ended up with something very different from the original blob of Concrete. I did nothing other than dissolve the concrete into Everclear and then poured the entire mixture into a pyrex dish, not running it through any kind of filter. I then just let the alcohol evaporate slowly with the aid of a small fan, but no heat. The result a few days later was a thin layer of clear shatter. I didn't filter anything, but the waxes appear to be gone. The hard product also lacks most of the odor of the original concrete.

It has remained in this rock hard state for weeks. It smokes very smooth, and gets me ripped. I just don't understand what is going on chemically.

Edit: Photos Added

So how does simply dissolving concrete like this into Everclear:

http://i1238.invalid.com/albums/ff485/StinkBomb420/IMG_3891.jpg

Then evaporating off the alcohol without any kind of filtration process leave me with this:

http://i1238.invalid.com/albums/ff485/StinkBomb420/IMG_3770.jpg

http://i1238.invalid.com/albums/ff485/StinkBomb420/IMG_3790.jpg

http://i1238.invalid.com/albums/ff485/StinkBomb420/IMG_3788.jpg

http://i1238.invalid.com/albums/ff485/StinkBomb420/IMG_3892.jpg

dextr0 · Apr 27, 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber
Composition and formation

Amber is heterogeneous in composition, but consists of several resinous bodies more or less soluble in alcohol, ether and chloroform, associated with an insoluble bituminous substance. Amber is a macromolecule by free radical polymerization of several precursors in the labdane family, e.g. communic acid, cummunol, and biformene. These labdanes are diterpenes (C20H32) and trienes, equipping the organic skeleton with three alkene groups for polymerization. As amber matures over the years, more polymerization takes place as well as isomerization reactions, crosslinking and cyclization.

The average composition of amber leads to the general formula C10H16O.
Formation

Molecular polymerization, resulting from high pressures and temperatures produced by overlying sediment, transforms the resin first into copal. Sustained heat and pressure drives off terpenes and results in the formation of amber.

Ok this is what I think. Maybe u can get a better understanding, but this right here should explain it. The thing is u have a concentrate, which is really just a fancy word for resin that contains terpenes that give off smell. When creating an absolute, u are making a more pure substance. Not to say its all the way pure, just u are making it more pure. Remember all solvents have the possibility of effecting your end product as well as change some of the properties. Different solvents will cause different reactions. To get rid of access terpenes and etc we usually use heat, or time to cause the Molecular polymerization. But u can also speed the process along with different substances or chemicals since when u combine some chemicals they create their own heat. And they are also able to cause isomerization reactions, crosslinking and cyclization. Somehow the second wash caused this to happen fast. The truth is hardly anyone knows about this process, but I hope that helped. And maybe someone more knowledgeable will step in.

sdog · Apr 27, 2011

Let me just put it to you this buddy, NEVER run it twice!(example) its not like distilling vodka in which you keep distilling for a purer product. You do not want to degrade your extraction by washin and fondeling it again especially if you run it with a different solvant. I dont think the concrete you hit twice can get any better which looks really dank by the way. point is you can't make perfect conctrete better than it already is. the less you fondle the product the better it will taste and hit much better.
hope this helps bro
keep it growing!

mrdizzle · Apr 27, 2011

sdogs incorrect. here is a pretty good thread on cleaning up your bho

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168388

sdog · Apr 27, 2011

Thanks for the correction mdizzle . I Understand the whole second round of ethynol but ive tried both and think they are very similar except for the fact that the concrete taste and sells better.
sorry for the false info mtgrower. I was just giving my opinion. I'll just keep my mouth shut next time lol
Keep it growing!

sdog · Apr 27, 2011

Smells not sells lol

MTgrower · Apr 29, 2011

mrdizzle said:
sdogs incorrect. here is a pretty good thread on cleaning up your bho

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168388

Thanks, that is the kind of thing I was looking for to start my research and experimentation.

MTgrower · Apr 30, 2011

Holy shit. I am in love with absolutes. The concretes are generally more fragrant, but the absolutes I'm dabbing are still quite fragrant, and the smoke is much smoother once the waxes are removed. Plus, the shit is just beautiful to look at. It is like super viscous glass. It moves like putty if you are slow, but shatters like putty if you pull it fast. I love it.

Thanks for the input dudes.

dextr0 · Apr 30, 2011

Are you a member on icmag?? Im just asking because that same link dizzle posted that was my teacher. I just wanted someone to tell him hi and send my best wishes to him.

jump · May 1, 2011

Hey MTgrower!
When butane concrete dissolved in ethanol at room temperature, the wax flakes are not always separated and their total volume is very small.
If they are not filtered out, then they will not disappear, but their presence may be unnoticed.
I always dissolved concrete in ethanol for cleaning the remnants of butane, to remove the mini-and micro-bubbles of butane filtering is not needed.

mrdizzle said:
here is a pretty good thread on cleaning up your bho
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168388

Hey mrdizzle! Thank you, this is one of my favorite threads.

EuDiesel · May 1, 2011

In Organic chemistry it is common to "recrystallize" your product by dissolving it in the minimal amount of solvent in which the product you want is slightly soluble and the contaminants are either completely soluble or precipitate out.

Usually you use a small amount of heated solvent (in this case, ethanol or everclear). This is then added to the product, stirred, and then either filtered (if extras are insoluble) or allow to slowly come back to room temperature and "re-crystallize."

The same is true with oils, although technically not crystallizing. You exploit the differences in rates of crystallization, solubility, etc. This is more of an art than a science so there's no "magical technique" to do it. You just gotta play with it using different temperatures, solvent gradients, etc.

Theoretically, the more you re-crystallize the more pure material you get (less weight overall but higher purity). Now, this is easier with a single crystal rather than an oil (a collection of molecules that don't quite crystallize). When the product gets sufficient purity, it is no longer an oil but more solid (amber glass, shad, etc).

I hope that helps. Obviously, if the contaminants crystallize at near the same rate or are quite similar in properties, then the effectiveness of the wash is minimized.

mrdizzle · May 1, 2011

jump said:
Hey MTgrower!
When butane concrete dissolved in ethanol at room temperature, the wax flakes are not always separated and their total volume is very small.
If they are not filtered out, then they will not disappear, but their presence may be unnoticed.
I always dissolved concrete in ethanol for cleaning the remnants of butane, to remove the mini-and micro-bubbles of butane filtering is not needed.
Hey mrdizzle! Thank you, this is one of my favorite threads.

mine too, thanks dude the AA is the real deal

MTgrower · May 2, 2011

Thank you guys for the insight. I worked with some Dr. Grinspoon yesterday. I've never had such potent product. I smoke heavily, and I was almost uncomfortable. It may be too much for most of my clients.

jump · May 2, 2011

MTgrower said:
It is like super viscous glass. It moves like putty if you are slow, but shatters like putty if you pull it fast.

Such is the nature of non-Newtonian fluid.

MTgrower · May 3, 2011

jump said:
Such is the nature of non-Newtonian fluid.

Fuck yeah! Best shit ever and it has a killer name.

hmusic · May 3, 2011

MTgrower said:
It moves like putty if you are slow, but shatters like putty if you pull it fast.

What do you mean by this statement?

Did you extract the concrete with the Tamisium? If so, how long did you let it soak? Or, did you do a "Rapid Burst Extraction"? Did you use fresh or dry material?

MTgrower · May 5, 2011

hmusic said:
What do you mean by this statement?

Did you extract the concrete with the Tamisium? If so, how long did you let it soak? Or, did you do a "Rapid Burst Extraction"? Did you use fresh or dry material?

I always use dry material. I did an inversion for about 5 minutes. Yes, I extracted the concrete with the Tamisium TE 175 Super Delux. If you do a run without any carrier solvent in the bottom bell, the product you have is the concrete.

I'm just trying to introduce some standard language to describe the things we are doing. There are too many names for the same thing, and this leads to confusion during discussions.

Last night I dissolved a big blob of very dark concrete into Everclear. I then added Activated Carbon (the SD package #4 came with a pound) and filtered the mixture with an unbleached #4 coffee filter. First time playing with the carbon. I'm excited to see how it turns out.

hmusic · May 5, 2011

MTgrower said:
I always use dry material. I did an inversion for about 5 minutes. Yes, I extracted the concrete with the Tamisium TE 175 Super Delux. If you do a run without any carrier solvent in the bottom bell, the product you have is the concrete.

I'm just trying to introduce some standard language to describe the things we are doing. There are too many names for the same thing, and this leads to confusion during discussions.

Last night I dissolved a big blob of very dark concrete into Everclear. I then added Activated Carbon (the SD package #4 came with a pound) and filtered the mixture with an unbleached #4 coffee filter. First time playing with the carbon. I'm excited to see how it turns out.

I already knew that everything extracted without using a transport solvent is a concrete. Also, I wanted to point out that you are a bit mistaken when describing the use of a "carrier" solvent in the bottom bell. I too had the same misconception until I read the literature provided with my TamiE. Carrier solvent is what you'd add to the RC tank before adding butane (or any other primary solvent), if you wanted it to participate in the actual extraction process. Transport solvent, is what you'd add to the bell like you said.

My question is, if you do add a transport solvent to the extraction tank/bell, and you recover 100% of your tane, is what you're eventually left with considered absolute (AA)?

I agree with you about there being too many terms to describe the same thing. Concrete is the technical name, and the name I'm sticking with, but the fact is that most people will continue using BHO...etc..

I have a couple questions regarding your extraction methods. Why do you soak for 5 minutes? Isn't it true that longer soak times leave you with a darker, less desirable end result? Have you tried adding air pressure (via the included Schrader valve) for a 1-3 minute "Rapid Burst Extraction"? If so, what were your results.

I will be using my extractor for the first time today because I was waiting on my n-butane from Airgas, who was supposed to have it to me by 4 days ago. I'm going to be experimenting with 99% isopropyl alcohol as a transport solvent. Any thoughts?

Absolute separated from Concrete?

Absolute separated from Concrete?

MTgrower

dextr0

MTgrower

dextr0

sdog

mrdizzle

sdog

sdog

MTgrower

MTgrower

dextr0

jump

EuDiesel

mrdizzle

MTgrower

jump

MTgrower

hmusic

MTgrower

hmusic

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