Advanced?

[ichaelma]

Ok,, so ive decided to post sumthin here,, in the advanced techniques&problems. (hope that i dont have problems) but here goes.. (pleaze overlook any misspelling or bad english, or punctuation cause im just an under educated american:/thx)
im a new farmer and have been researching different methods for quite some time.. i have a legal medical permit to grow for myself,, therfore i have my setup,, setup for exactly that. lol. just for me. :) so after much,, well, as much as i care to do,, research, planning, building, ect. i have come to conclude that this is an ideal and "advanced" system for the cultivation of my beloved medication. i only concider this advanced, because of my hypothetical process. which may indeed be revolutionary.. or not..
soo.. any interest yet?..
this may help. im interested in micro grows, cause im only growin for myself for one, and also it is easier to control the conditions in a small enviornment. and... if sucessfull can be replicated in a larger enviornment. nothin yet.. ok.. im a hydro grower. interested in maxamizing my growth, and yeild, wile minimizing time,, and energy. i believe that hydro is the only way to go when tryin to manipulate growth in any meta enviornment. we know that creating ideal conditions is a good start... it guarentees a sucessfull harvest. we also know there are many ways to manipulate conditions to accellerate or decellerate a given process which may be benifical to our main goal. this may include damaging the plant or starving it of nutrient, or light deprivation. based on very little research, ive found that some of the techniques produce results. so this is where i want to begin. on a limb. what can be changed in the enviornment that hasnt already been messed with? or has not been concidered or maybee overlooked. i have a few ideas and some of them in practice now. im interested to see if anyone else has interest or ideas. i have a few things i would like to elaberate on for others to concider, but first i would like to measure the interest and evin intelect of my fellow farmers.
soo... comments would be great. lol. cant wait to c what happens here..lol.. i hope to spark some interest in you mad scientests out there. more to come for sure.. so long as theres interest.

 

[another_sellout]

The issue is that anyone who has an idea on how to advance anything is trying to get it patented and get themselves paid. We're in the middle of a gold rush and the only people making money are selling shovels. That said, I think you should look into Mazzei venturi injectors. All the shit peolpe talk about the importance of creating the tiniest bubbles to create the largest surface area for O2 transfer, but no one is dropping these into their systems yet.

Dig this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4czczYnuM_w

This combined into a DWC would not only simplify the system, but! Keeping in mind that 1) you would need to run an individual pump for each plant to achieve the desired effect and 2) container width is what controls yield, not capacity, it would allow for the shallowest container possible because the micro-bubbled O2 would circulate with the nutrient solution instead of simply float up through it. More time in circulation is more air exchange with less air being forced into the system. It also requires no extra electricity usage to achieve this. Now what's your idea?

Also, I'm fairly sure there's a separate micro-grow forum on here somewhere. Best of luck!

 

[ichaelma]

great info thanks for sharing.
heres one experiment im trying. my room is a sealed unit. i have an intake fan "pulling" air into the unit, the inlet hole is smaller than the exit and is actually creating a small vacuum. i have been operating this way for veg and the start of flower, when im near the end of flowering, i plan on changing the fan from "pulling, to pusshing", which will in turn cause the unit to be slightly pressurized. i will also be dropping the temperature a few deg. anyone have thoughts on this (growing under pressure, or vacuum)

 

[Dunge]

"If you don't think too good, don't think too much."
Yogi Berra
Do you have any idea how small the pressure modifications are with your fan setup.
The only thing you are likely to accomplish is to stink up the house when pressurized.
I get it, you're stoned. All is forgiven.

And, the bated breath tone of your post is annoying. Many words, saying NOTHING.

 

[ichaelma]

"If you don't think too good, don't think too much."
Yogi Berra
Do you have any idea how small the pressure modifications are with your fan setup.
The only thing you are likely to accomplish is to stink up the house when pressurized.
I get it, you're stoned. All is forgiven.

And, the bated breath tone of your post is annoying. Many words, saying NOTHING.

thanks for your lame input. do you always go around bein a dick.
im aware that this is a small change in pressures. have you concidered how much pressure changes with altitude, not alot. im still tryen to create earth like conditions. and im not growin in my house. i have a large cargo trailer. i have not disclosed how large my exhaust or intake fan is which plays a major part in how much vacuum i can create, in my sealed cargo trailer. i can crank up the fan enough to make my ears pop. this must have some effect on the plants. Dunge if you dont have any creative input you should keep your negativity to yourself.

 

[Dunge]

I was calling you out for not offering anything in your first post?
And the Berra quote was a response to your, "first i would like to measure the interest and evin intelect of my fellow farmers".

Now you have raised the question of pressure and I am curious.

Wouldn't transpiration go up with lowered pressure?
Isn't transpiration capacity a limit to growth?

Yeah, ok, I was being a dick. But you started it.

 

[ichaelma]

ok i agree.
transpiration " Transpiration also cools plants and enables mass flow of mineral nutrients and water from roots to shoots." from wikipidia. i was not aware of this term or have never concidered this process. after investigating,, i now understand more. thank you. it seems to me in my mind that this process would be encouraged by the vacuum. and if given an abundant supply of water and nutrient. plant growth may increase? but, if that is true, pressurization may not help. or maybee a fluctuation of pressure then vacuum throughout the growth process would have some effect.
ive also wondered..
what effect an electrical charge in the nutrient solution would do. i know that ph has somthin to do with electrical conductivity, so what if the ph was adjusted, an electrical current was applied to the solution/roots and maybee discharged/grounded via the stalks/leaves. super chargin the plants. lol. prob kill everything. just another stupid thought. but,, im gunna try it.

 

[Sea Of Green]

Don't forget to wear the bra on your head too while you're doing it.:giggle

Anyway, so yeah, what were you thinking atmospheric pressure was going to affect? It's not only going to dry your plants out quicker, the growing medium, and everything else for that matter, would too. So then you'd have to water them more often, which might also mean you'd need to feed them more often, or more heavily, too.

Nevermind, just forget I asked. You don't know what the hell you're doing, and you obviously don't care, so...

Have fun!

:character0113:

 

[ichaelma]

I found this information on the NASA website.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/25feb_greenhouses/

theres lots more info there on the subject.
""""Much work remains to be done. Ferl's team looked at the way plants react to a short period of low pressure. Still to be determined is how plants react to spending longer amounts of time -- like their entire life -- in hypobaric conditions. Ferl also hopes to examine plants at a wider variety of pressures. There are whole suites of genes that are activated at different pressures, he says, and this suggests a surprisingly complex response to low pressure environments.""""

 

[ichaelma]

Don't forget to wear the bra on your head too while you're doing it.:giggle

Anyway, so yeah, what were you thinking atmospheric pressure was going to affect? It's not only going to dry your plants out quicker, the growing medium, and everything else for that matter, would too. So then you'd have to water them more often, which might also mean you'd need to feed them more often, or more heavily, too.

Nevermind, just forget I asked. You don't know what the hell you're doing, and you obviously don't care, so...

Have fun!

:character0113:

not tryen to make you look stupid or closed minded. you did that yourself.

 

[phenotyper]

Oh, the irony.

 

[iscrog4food]

In all fairness wouldn't the media drying more quickly be a good thing? Watering more often meaning the plant can absorb more ect?

 

[ttystikk]

I've grown near sea level, and I now consult with people who grow very successfully above 7500 feet (Colorado IS paradise!), and if there's a difference in growth rates due to ambient pressures, I haven't seen any evidence of it. Again, being a native of *high* places, I have a more than passing familiarity with the limits of the natural realm, and I've often heard the argument that people will point to treeline as some kind of absolute limit above which plants can't grow.

False- the reason there's a treeline has little to do with the pressure at that altitude, rather it's the result of local conditions of cold, wind and moisture that combine to create the maximum altitude for *certain* living things. Hike on up to treeline, and you'll see that while the pine trees may stop growing, there are plenty of other things that keep right on plugging away, including... dandelions. Seriously, they do just fine in the summertime growing along the trails in Rocky Mountain National Park, the seeds of which have clearly been transported up there by visitors and their animals.

In my experience, the usual cast of variables- temperatures, humidity, CO2 levels, lighting, nutrients and the like- all play their usual starring roles in determining suitability of growing results.

Here's where it gets at least a little interesting; higher altitudes DO have some effects, like allowing grow rooms to heat and cool more rapidly and making it even more difficult to maintain consistent humidity levels. This can be directly traced to lower thermal mass as a result of lower air density at higher altitude. So far, that tends to make things harder to grow, not easier. The flip side is that up high, growers generally don't have too much trouble keeping their growrooms cool!

 

[ttystikk]

Onto the question about electrobiochemistry...

I've seen that passing an electrical current through a ferrous metal can induce magnetism- electromagnets. Don't see how that's useful in making plants gorw faster.

I've also seen that in civil engineering of submerged metal structures the use of 'sacrificial plugs' is often employed to reduce corrosion, specifically, the use of zinc plugs bolted to steel flood doors. This is an example of an electrochemical process where the zinc corrodes instead of the steel. Periodically replace the zinc plugs and voila!- no rust on the steel bits. Again, I don't see how that would affect plant life.

Surely, you've heard of the (totally insane!) helicopter based electricity transmission crews, who fly up to the wires and work on them WITHOUT shutting off the million volt current? They don't imitate bugs in a zapper only because they aren't grounded. Therefore, if all you do is charge the whole field, no current is created. So, how do you propose to create an electrical current in your plants? And, to what end, exactly? Plants don't use electricity to transport nutrients, that's done via the vacuum created by transpiration, pulling water and nutes up the stem from the roots.

Best to start with the basics, then, and see where you are once you've got those well dialed in.

At whatever altitude, ya stoner! ;-)

 

[ichaelma]

well put ttystikk. great insite and information.
to apply the current i would simply attach one terminal to a copper plate and place it in my root channel, which has water constantly flowing through it, the opposite terminal would be attached to a metal fence that the plants would grow through. im not sure of the intensity or amount of electricity i would use. i tryed to do a search on the subject theres not much info out there but it has been tryed and some report up to 70% growth increase http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...&n=Top/News/Science/Topics/Flowers and Plants
well i dont know, im gunna get stoned, and think about it.