Agave/Yucca- Cold Extraction- Surfactants, Saponins, Cytokinins, Auxins

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GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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The subfamily agavoidae is comprised of approx 640 species of agave and it's close relative, yucca. While the bio-active properties and concentrations can vary from species to species (and from pheno to pheno), they all produce saponins (Latin "sapo," meaning soap) which are important to growers for their detergent or surfactant properties. Agave is also a source of cytokinin, a growth regulating hormone that is biosynthesized by auxins and helps promote cell division in the root zone and apical growth to the shoot tips.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxin
Cytokinins are involved in many plant processes, including cell division and shoot and root morphogenesis. In particular, they are known to regulate axillary bud growth as well as affect apical dominance. These effects are a result of the cytokinin to auxin ratio, and termed the direct inhibition hypothesis. This theory states that the auxin, originating in the apical bud, travels down shoots to inhibit axillary bud growth. This promotes shoot growth, and restricts lateral branching. During this process, cytokinin moves from the roots and into the shoots, eventually signaling lateral bud growth. Simple experiments agree with this theory. When the apical bud—the major source of auxin—is removed, the axillary buds are liberated from inhibition. This allows the plant increased lateral growth, making the plant bushier. Applying auxin to the cleaved stem again inhibits lateral dominance

Soil Surfactant

Agaveyucca  cold extraction  surfactants saponins cytokinins auxins

Schematic showing anionic surfactant sorption mechanisms in unsaturated soil. Surfactant molecules are represented by an open circle and tail. Spherical arrangements of surfactant molecules are used to depict mobile micelles. Filled black circles are resident divalent cations that coadsorb anionic surfactant molecules to soil particle surfaces. Hydrophobic adsorption causes surfactant molecules to concentrate at the air/water interface and to interact with those already adsorbed at soil particle surfaces, potentially resulting in bilayer formation. The checkered zone symbolizes a surfactant precipitate.

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Foliar Surfactant

Agaveyucca  cold extraction  surfactants saponins cytokinins auxins 4


Agaveyucca  cold extraction  surfactants saponins cytokinins auxins 2


Agaveyucca  cold extraction  surfactants saponins cytokinins auxins 3


Agaveyucca  cold extraction  surfactants saponins cytokinins auxins 5


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The root and core are where most of the sugars and active agents are stored. Blue Agave or agave tequilana being harvested for tequila production.
Agave 1a


Agave Lechuguilla in wild.

Agave 1


Agave 3



Agave Lechuguilla in my backyard.

Agave 4


Agave 5


Agave 13


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Agave Lechuguilla Cold Process Extraction

Agave 14


Agave 17


Agave 19


Agave 20


Agave 21


Agave 23


Agave 24


Agave 26


Agave 32


Agave 35


Agave 40


Agave 44


Agave 46


Agave 48


Agave 48a


Agave 49


Agave 51


Agave 52


Agave 53


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Using Wetting Agents (Nonionic Surfactants) on Soil


Source:


Some soils, known as hydrophobic soils, are difficult to wet because they repel water. The infiltration of water into these soils can often be improved by applying a nonionic surfactant, more commonly called a wetting agent. Wetting agents are detergent-like substances that reduce the surface tension of water, allowing it to penetrate and wet the soil more easily.
To understand how wetting agents work, it is necessary to know something about the three forces that affect the movement of water into the soil. The first is gravity; it is a constant force that pulls the water downward. The second is cohesion, the attraction of water molecules for each other. It is the force that holds a droplet of water together. It creates the droplet's surface tension, which causes the droplet to behave as if a thin, flexible film covered its surface, tending to keep the water molecules apart from other substances. The third force is adhesion, the attraction of water molecules to other substances. This force causes water molecules to adhere to other objects, such as soil particles.
Tests have also been conducted to determine whether wetting agents have any toxic effects on plants. In tests on barley shoots grown hydroponically (that is, in a nutrient solution rather than in soil), a wetting agent concentration of 300 parts per million (ppm) in the solution caused a reduction of about 70 percent in the dry weight of the shoots. However, the same concentration in water applied to shoots growing in soil or in a sand-peat mixture increased shoot growth slightly. When wetting agents are applied to soil, the concentration would have to be much higher than 300 ppm before plant growth would be impaired.

Despite frequent irrigation, the soil in these spots resists wetting, resulting in patches of dead or severely wilted turf. The water applied wets the turf but does not adequately penetrate the soil surface to reach the root zone.

but the most effective solution was to use wetting agents in combination with coring—making small holes in the soil surface to allow water to pass through the hydrophobic surface layer. Also, keeping the soil moist seemed to be the best defense against the development of dry spots. Allowing the soil to dry out intensified the problem.
Several studies have shown that the infiltration rate of a hydrophobic soil, once it has been wetted, remains higher than it was before it was wetted, even if it is allowed to dry out again.
 
H

H3AD_CAS3

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excellent read...i have been using n-90 from grow more. inexpensive and super-concentrated :thumbsup
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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How does coco fit into this situation?
The same principles apply to all soil/soiless substrates. I grow w/ a coco/rice hull medium and have found that a soil surfactant is particularly effective in penetrating the dense root zones of older plants. Water w/ a surfactant will typically be absorbed into the rhizoshere in seconds, leaving behind only a light foam trail on the surface whereas a container next door w/ straight water will often pool and stand on top for 30sec to a minute+.
 
Capulator

Capulator

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If anyone is close to an armstrong nursery, they sell this shit called "spray mate" in a little bottle. its only 5 bucks, and will last a good while, with just a few drops per gallon. Its a non ionic surfactant.
 
S

swisscheese

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The same principles apply to all soil/soiless substrates. I grow w/ a coco/rice hull medium and have found that a soil surfactant is particularly effective in penetrating the dense root zones of older plants. Water w/ a surfactant will typically be absorbed into the rhizoshere in seconds, leaving behind only a light foam trail on the surface whereas a container next door w/ straight water will often pool and stand on top for 30sec to a minute+.

I have a bottle of coco wet which I use for foliar sprays on the bottle it doesn't list a dose to water plants with only foliar any recommendations? I know exactly what you're talking about the first water that hits the coco likes to sit on top for a few seconds.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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I have a bottle of coco wet which I use for foliar sprays on the bottle it doesn't list a dose to water plants with only foliar any recommendations? I know exactly what you're talking about the first water that hits the coco likes to sit on top for a few seconds.


coco wet:
"A proprietary blend: 90% nonionic modified cocodiethanolamide." Source:
http://www.aghydroponics.com/CocoWet-SprayNGrow-p/pestleaf-732000.htm )


"Cde (
cocodiethanolamide) is one the traditional ingredients used in the formulation of dishwashing liquids, shampoo, foam bath, soap, laundry liquid and liquid detergents. Cde is a palm kernel diethanoiamide (pkde) manufactured from highly refined palm kernel rbd oil." Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080114021005AA88g9U

I haven't used the product but judging by the nature of it's active ingredient I'd be comfortable using it in a soil application. With agave, yucca, aloe soil drenches, I go 2x the foliar strength but to be on the safe side, I'd start out @ the foliar 1x strength and do a couple of trials w/ plants in veg before going full throttle in the flowering room.
 
Blaze

Blaze

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Do you have a particular Yucca product you would recommend for those of us that live in areas where it does not grow? Or have you only been using the home made stuff?
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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Do you have a particular Yucca product you would recommend for those of us that live in areas where it does not grow? Or have you only been using the home made stuff?
You bet->

Yucca Ag Aid 50



View attachment MSDS_Ag_Aide_OMRI.pdf

Agriculture Manuals_Yucca_Quillaja
http://www.desertking.com/index.cfm/category/38/agriculture-manual.cfm

I'm going to get a small bottle of Quillaja to compare effects. I have some comments to add about quantities, the perils of overuse, (I use it every 3rd watering) and the importance of a high brie:saponin ratio, (Ag Aid 50 is 5:1) but have to jet ATM.
 
Ganjafarmer562

Ganjafarmer562

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Mendo Honey From Grow More also has Yucca Extract in it. A decent amount also( Second listed ingredient). Also props to H3ad Cas3 for using Grow More's N 90. The company is super legit, I have met the guys who run it and they are genius. They are also the number one commercial agriculture supplier of nutes in California. Great products at a really reasonable price! I use the mendo honey as my sugars to feed my myco colonies and the yucca extract is an added bonus.
 
SmokinDogCujo

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GanjaGardener,

At what rate would you use the Yucca Ag Aide 50? How many tsp per gallon?


SDC
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

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GanjaGardener,

At what rate would you use the Yucca Ag Aide 50? How many tsp per gallon?


SDC
Hi DC
I haven't used it since I started making my own and don't remember the exact dosing.

I know that Blaze used it last year but wanted to scope his ACT and see how it effected his microbe count before resuming use. I haven't heard how that went, but maybe he or someone else who is currently using it will weigh in.

I do remember that I didn't dabble around w/ the recommended dose other than going lighter (1/2 dose?) when applied as a surfactant during veg and am doing pretty much the same thing w/ relative concentration levels in my current agave extracts -- 75-100ppm lower surface tension/ 150ppm norm. 200ppm older plants/ less permeable surfaces and 150ppm for foliar. Of course that's for the agave extract that I've demoed here and doesn't represent universal values.

Good luck- Good gardening
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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You bet->

Yucca Ag Aid 50


View attachment 182539

Agriculture Manuals_Yucca_Quillaja
http://www.desertking.com/index.cfm/category/38/agriculture-manual.cfm

I'm going to get a small bottle of Quillaja to compare effects. I have some comments to add about quantities, the perils of overuse, (I use it every 3rd watering) and the importance of a high brie:saponin ratio, (Ag Aid 50 is 5:1) but have to jet ATM.
Did you ever compare and/or Notice any difference between yucca schidigera vs. Yucca Quillaja?


EDIT: I noticed you said you make you own, care to share homemade recipe?

Thanks for sharing GG. Hope all is growing good.
 
Blaze

Blaze

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I did a few batches of ACT with the Ag Aid50 it but got too busy to do any sort of real comparison. I just used it on a few plants a couple of times, but I didn't have a control group, or a scope at that point, so it didn't really tell me much. It didn't negatively affect the plants but I didn't see any big difference in how they grew, but again this was far from any sort of true experiment.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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I did a few batches of ACT with the Ag Aid50 it but got too busy to do any sort of real comparison. I just used it on a few plants a couple of times, but I didn't have a control group, or a scope at that point, so it didn't really tell me much. It didn't negatively affect the plants but I didn't see any big difference in how they grew, but again this was far from any sort of true experiment.
Thanks!
 
Capulator

Capulator

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Looks like at least it will clean your dirty ass fingernails!!!
LOL.

Whats up GG? How you been?
 
jimbooo

jimbooo

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Thanks, I love techniques like these. Hydrophobic soils are enough to send me insane sometimes.
 
tinytim

tinytim

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Thanks, I love techniques like these. Hydrophobic soils are enough to send me insane sometimes.
if your soils are hydrophobic, i think they're gonna need something more than a surfactant to keep the ball rolling. more perlite in the mix and breaking up the crusty surface w/ a fork or small trowel will help.
 
manitoid.

manitoid.

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These things are called yucca around here, can I make a extraction from these, or are they useless?
Yucca1
Yucca2
Yucca3
 
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