Alaskan Needs Your Help With Week Hydro Grow

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Dunge

Dunge

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I was flattered to be asked to consult on a new friends grow.
I took a close look, two pictures, and asked a bunch of questions.

Problem: failure to thrive.

First thoughts: is this a dramatic variation in two strains ability to thrive in cold, or is it something else?

The story: The home location is off the grid about 15 miles outside Fairbanks.
Up until three years ago he had successfully grown a plant called Fog that he got as a cut from an aquaintance in Tok, a small town a few hundred miles toward the Canadian border.
He had grown this Fog for years with good yields (4 oz per plant all day) until an infrastructure failure froze the garden.
He had lost Fog and had no contacts, so he flew to Amsterdam and bought a pack of Tangerine Dream.
(I'm just telling the story. Maybe he had other reasons to travel other than buying a few seeds.)

He has been trying to grow a 4 by 4 of Tangerine Dreams under 1K HPS for over two years and can't get them to produce.
They strike me as a very stemmy plant, almost a thicket, with no strength.
They are growing in rock wool/ clay balls net pots suspended over a wading pool.
The roots fail to grow into the pool.
He is feeding the AN line, but this seems unrelated to any problems as he has had the same bad results with other nutes.
The pool water is changed weekly and is sitting at 60 deg F at 50% RH and 70 deg room air.

Isn't 60 deg F too low a res temp?
Might it have been ok for the Fog but just hammers the Tangerine Dream?
I think he waters daily, but complains the media always seems too wet.

pH is said to be sort of green on the test kit.
My memory is that this is high, but I was told the AN claimed it was buffered against pH problems.

So what is going on here?
These are three weeks into flower many stems seem to be covering the floor.
Alaskan needs your help with week hydro grow

Alaskan needs your help with week hydro grow 2

This new friend and his wife are an example of the community that awaits a legal Alaska.
Ideas generated here will be passed along until we get this grow fixed.
I have some other genetics for him to try. Maybe one of them can take a cold res, or am I off base here?
 
MrBelvedere

MrBelvedere

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its best to keep the water temperature about 70 degrees Fahrenheit. Below about 65 the roots have more trouble taking up water and nutrients, while above about 78 can be equally detrimental to the roots

Also, he should get a clone of a "known good" yielder, it could be the strain he is running is crappy...
 
Capulator

Capulator

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tangerine dream takes 10+ weeks to finish. I had a bunch of really crappy phenos that were spindly and fluffy and one awesome one. I bet he just got unlucky.
 
Dunge

Dunge

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Thanks gents.
I'll pass this along and provide him some fresh genetics.
We are presently having a bit of cool weather, but being Alaska, this is not out of the ordinary.
Having the res too cold is not a common problem from what I understand as most often it gets too hot.
I suspect that the water at times is colder than 60 in that they get truck delivery of municipal water.
60 may just be where the temps were when I saw it.

Will update thread with recovery info when available.
 
organicpanic

organicpanic

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They dont look unreasonably unhealthy. My guess is genetics like cap said.
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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That leaf discoloration looks similar to what some of mine looked like when I was dealing with root rot. Not to mention no plant vigor and crappy yields. Do you have any aeration in the wading pool? The AN ph perfect line works best in ro water and I found that it didn't keep the ph balanced in my hard well water. Works great in ro water however.
 
Dunge

Dunge

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How do the roots look?
He told me the roots haven't reached outside the nets.
I should have had a look, but I know nothing of hydro and didn't think to lift pots.
I did look in the pool and don't remember seeing any roots, but it's dark down there.

That's good info on the water and AN pH perfect.
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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The leaf discoloration I'm seeing could be from the hps lights. Hard to tell. How big are the pots/cubes there should be a decent size root mass with the size of those plants. I'm not real familiar with that strain either, but if it is a sativa dominant pheno it would probably like warmer room temps. Also if the water temps get down to 58 deg the roots will come to a crawl. Ideal res temps from my experience and research would be around 68 deg. Not saying its not the genetics, but rather trying to eliminate all other possibilities. Like you said the FOG might have loved that environment but the tangerine dream may need some modifications in environment.
 
akjoe

akjoe

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I'm the one with problem I had a couple of plants die in another pool from the one in picture and took them apart and the roots were all brown root rot i think. I got a couple of problems going on, water is too cold,bad genetics , root rot,so i got a plan I'm gonna change back to gordon balls and perlite, bring water temp up with heaters and water less
 
akjoe

akjoe

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I do have aeration in the pools it runs 2 hours a day 15 Minn. at a time. My pots are 6 quart,I use a 50/50 mix gordon balls and 1/4" rock wool cubs I keep room temp around 70 deg 50% humidity but pool temp are around 55 deg to 65 deg
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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Sounds like you have a plan! Hopefully with some modifications you can pull those plants through! Personally I would keep the aeration going all the time. Sitting water isn't good, but I see your off grid so you may be trying to conserve energy. When this crops done clean everything really good with some physan20 to kill all the root rot/pythium you may have. When I was running ebb n gro I had roots blowin out the bottom a few weeks in veg in 2 gallon pots, so you should be seeing some roots IMO. Those temps in the water are probably causing the slow root growth along with the possibility of root rot. 65 deg isn't bad but those 50deg temps aren't good and if you can get room temps up it will help dry the media out faster. If you know someone that grows in the same type environment that you have I would maybe get some genetics from them, because they will be acclimated and used to growing in such environment. You could spend a long time finding some genetics that will work in your environment. Tangerine dream is sativa dominant, so maybe an indica dominant hybrid would work better for you.
 
akjoe

akjoe

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i will keep aeration going all the time thanks for info. I used to have roots fill the pools when i had the fog I will keep trying to get better genetics . t saw on seed web sites they had seeds for cold climates. i jut checked the pools they are 50 degrees, the room is 70, the temp outside is -23 the pools sit on the floor i got to change that.
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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Damn -23 ouch! Maybe you could put some heat mats under those pools if energy consumption isn't an issue or just get them off the ground like you said will help! Cold climate seeds sounds good too LOL. Good luck with your grow!
 
Dunge

Dunge

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What did I tell ya?
These folks step right up and would carry water for you if they could.
I have genetics in 3" soil pots ready for a break in the weather for safe transport.
Will there be a problem transferring from small soil to hydro nets?
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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I have heard of people washing the soil off real good then transplanting into hydro, but I have never done it myself. I have went from hydro to coco with no problem, but that's bass ackwards. Maybe someone else can chime in on that. I would just try one or two first and see how it goes.
 
smokin jay

smokin jay

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If that has worked for you in the past go with it, but also don't be scared to try other methods with one or two plants. You never know if something might work out better for you, and keep us updated on progress!
 
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