All About Top Drip,hydroton, Synthetic Nutes, And Cap's Bennies

[rick ratlin]

I looked all through the threads in Cap's section, and didn't find much info pertaining to my specific op, mostly on UC hydro set-ups with chow mixes.

So.....here we go. I know there's gotta be a few farmers here running top drip with only hydroton.

My set-up: top drip, tap water (.2EC) hydroton(the porous kind, medium water holding capacity, i.e. some floats, some doesn't), 3 liter square 5.5" black pots, Eco-plus mag-drive 396gph pump, black hole top drippers, 27 gallon tuff box, filled to 20 gallons for reservoir, dynagro nutes.


I'm finally making the transition from a completely sterile nute mix using tap water and dynagro products, to a hybrid mix adding cap's root pack and foliar pack. No nute pack, as I run very low vegetative times. No mite, thrip problems, but I have a mild fungus gnat problem from time to time, so that's why I got the foliar pack.

Saw a few things to consider:
1. has anyone figured out if mag-driven pumps are bad for the bennies?
2. Can bennies multiply in an inert media like hydroton?
3. For an inert media like hydroton, which would be a better approach?
a. brew tea, then drench each pot full strength, right before nutrient change.
b. brew tea, then add to the reservoir for a whole day of feeding before the nutrient change.
c. brew tea, then add to reservoir for the ten day nutrient regimen, and add fresh each nutrient change.

I'll be starting with the bennies in the next week, so I'll give my 2 cents. In the meantime, I hope this will bring out some more info for such a great product. Anyone running hydroton and caps bennies show some love!

 

[babyhughie586]

im running the bennies in my UC right now.. I am using grow stones in my net pots no chow or anything else just grow stones... I am a little confused about your system.. Is it a DWC with a top drip line?? Or just a top drip?? If its a DWC I would consider changing to Cultured Solutions nutes... They are straight loving the bennies for me

Answer ur questions...

1. I have a Pondmaster Mag drive pump and i dont see any negatives with it an the bennies.
2. I am not sure if they can multiply in the hydroton, however thats why you change out your water and run a fresh batch of bennies every week... I have heard people say they will multiply in Lava rock.. I plan on using Lava rock in the future...
3.Personally i have just been brewing the bennies and adding them directly to the epicenter about an hour after i change Nutes and water and it has been working fantastic.. Every 7 days i do a complete system drain and then add the nutes let them circulate for about an hour and then add the bennies...

I hope this helps you out... Check out my grow if u get a chance, its mislabeled in caps forum its the thread right below yours here

 

[rick ratlin]

Thanks Hughie, it definitely helps:)

The system is not DWC. My system is just a simple recirculating top drip with 5.5" square pots filled with hydroton. They are in a standard 3x3 foot ebb and flow table. Used to flood and drain, still do, but adding top drip into my perpetual grow. It takes a big rez to fill up the pots, and so far, top drip doesn't take much at all. Here's a pic of the tray and rez set up.
.
As for the hydroton, specifically, its dutch brand gold label hydrocorn, the 16-18mm size (.5") It's got an uneven shape, its porous, and holds a lot more water than the original german round hydroton. Apparently this shape and porosity is good for bennies, as per their website.

By the epicenter, do you mean you pour straight tea into the crown? That's my dilemma, put the tea in the 20gallon rez, or just pour straight tea into each pot before or after nute change. Probably overthinking it.

And oh yeah, I'm following your sick grow! Serious monsters you got growing. Can't wait to see the Fugu finish! Did you take that water chiller that could out of the room yet? And if you do end up needing support for those monsters, you can get those square tomato cages that come apart and you can wrap the cage around it, if that makes sense at all. Thanks for the help!

 

[babyhughie586]

Thanks bud I'm surely stoked of the fugu Kush I got goin.. n no my chiller is in the grow room.. I would take it out but I don't want to drill any holes in the walls and I can't leave the door to the room open because I'd be afraid of light leaks...

To answer your question the epicenter is the bucket without a plant in it.. I haven't poured any of the bennie tea straight into the net pots, however cap recommended that I do add the tea at full concentrate directly into each net pot...

I have the burgee tomatoe cages they are square but they slip over the buckets, they don't come apart.. Do u know the brand of the cages typu are talking about??? Or where to get them?? I have used hydroton before but not with the bennies...

 

[rick ratlin]

Here's a link to the cages i'm talking about. You should be able to get them about anywhere though, especially now during the veggie growing season.

They are almost like fencing that interlocks together, and can be folded flat when not in use.

I feel ya on drilling holes in the wall, maybe cut down to 1/2" tubing to make the hole a bit smaller? Either way, things look great.

 

[Capulator]

I do a and c on your list.

I run 2 gal smart pots with chow mix for veg, then in to an MPB which is basically the same as a UC as far as principles are concerned.

I found that mag drive does not affect the bennies so much. I believe they are too small. I run a recirc pump in my reservoirs, and I always get fungus on the media.

Once bacteria germinate they have a glue like substance that helps them stick to things, so if you can get them germinated, you will be good to go. I say a cup of full concentrate tea at each crown, and then a cup per 5 gallons in to the res right after you do a nute change every 7-10 days. top off in between as usual. adjust pH as usual.

 

[glasgrower]

high guys.i run a top drip system called a wilma system from atami uk,grt system with 8 sqaure pots of 11 ltrs each using just hydroton with a 70 ltr res underneath,i use trichoderma benny an add it to res each wk,never got time to brew a tea but this works for me with lovely white dense root system and a water heater an airstone in res..airstone could do without but keeps res movin and drip 24 7,this is my low maintenace system an does me fine an is v.popular in uk.i may try a tea but jus throw a dose tricho powder into fresh ph/ec/temp adjusted res.ill post some pics of this shortly,i like the idea of brewin tea and any recipes would b grt,im grown black diesel which is prone to mold so i spray a baking soda miw or neem depending on stage of growth,good to see others usin similar system.have u guys used cellmax and hydroton mix,no sure if thats wot u call chow.new on here but grown 4 yrs,all the best frm the uk.LCC peace

 

[Capulator]

high guys.i run a top drip system called a wilma system from atami uk,grt system with 8 sqaure pots of 11 ltrs each using just hydroton with a 70 ltr res underneath,i use trichoderma benny an add it to res each wk,never got time to brew a tea but this works for me with lovely white dense root system and a water heater an airstone in res..airstone could do without but keeps res movin and drip 24 7,this is my low maintenace system an does me fine an is v.popular in uk.i may try a tea but jus throw a dose tricho powder into fresh ph/ec/temp adjusted res.ill post some pics of this shortly,i like the idea of brewin tea and any recipes would b grt,im grown black diesel which is prone to mold so i spray a baking soda miw or neem depending on stage of growth,good to see others usin similar system.have u guys used cellmax and hydroton mix,no sure if thats wot u call chow.new on here but grown 4 yrs,all the best frm the uk.LCC peace

If you like trichoderma powder you will LOVE the ROOT PACK !!!

 

[rick ratlin]

Yo Cap, in the "cap's bennies for hydro users" thread, you recommend 1/2 teaspoon of root pack per gallon for top feed, but only 1 teaspoon root pack per gallon for general purpose. Why so much more for top feed? Just wondering in case I don't have time to make some tea.

I read about hanging lava rocks in the rez to help colonize the bennies, but I'm thinking the porosity of the hydroton I use should do about the same. Op is top drip running full time during lights on recirculating system.

I know you run mpb, but if you were running top drip like I do, in order to keep up dissolved oxygen for the bennies, would you rather
a. run a air stone in the rez
b. use a fluval aquarium circulator
c. let the splashing from the return tube in the rez allow enough dissolve oxygen for the bennies?

I have both the fluval and air stone, and prefer the fluval since it doesn't splash water on the rez lid leading to fungal problems.

For the first tea I'll make, I'll use the root pack, foliar pack, and unsulphured black strap molasses, and the silica rich pyro clay along with they're liquid gold. 24 hour bubbling, let it settle, then 4 cups into each 20 gallon rez. I'm feeding synthetic nutes, so I figured this simple tea should be ok for the full duration of flowering. I also want to run a clean tea, and keep the drippers from clogging.

Here's the small batch recipe-
1.5 Liter/0.375Gallon tea recipe
5mL Blackstrap unsulphured molasses
1/2 tablespoon each foliar and root pack
1/4 cup silica rich clay
8ml Liquid gold

final pH 5.0 EC 1.4 (no pH'ing the tea since this was the first batch.)

Any critiques or advice are absolutely welcome from anyone as well!
Thanks again Cap!

 

[glasgrower]

If you like trichoderma powder you will LOVE the ROOT PACK !!!

 

[Capulator]

Yo Cap, in the "cap's bennies for hydro users" thread, you recommend 1/2 teaspoon of root pack per gallon for top feed, but only 1 teaspoon root pack per gallon for general purpose. Why so much more for top feed? Just wondering in case I don't have time to make some tea.

I read about hanging lava rocks in the rez to help colonize the bennies, but I'm thinking the porosity of the hydroton I use should do about the same. Op is top drip running full time during lights on recirculating system.

I know you run mpb, but if you were running top drip like I do, in order to keep up dissolved oxygen for the bennies, would you rather
a. run a air stone in the rez
b. use a fluval aquarium circulator
c. let the splashing from the return tube in the rez allow enough dissolve oxygen for the bennies?

I have both the fluval and air stone, and prefer the fluval since it doesn't splash water on the rez lid leading to fungal problems.

For the first tea I'll make, I'll use the root pack, foliar pack, and unsulphured black strap molasses, and the silica rich pyro clay along with they're liquid gold. 24 hour bubbling, let it settle, then 4 cups into each 20 gallon rez. I'm feeding synthetic nutes, so I figured this simple tea should be ok for the full duration of flowering. I also want to run a clean tea, and keep the drippers from clogging.

Here's the small batch recipe-
1.5 Liter/0.375Gallon tea recipe
5mL Blackstrap unsulphured molasses
1/2 tablespoon each foliar and root pack
1/4 cup silica rich clay
8ml Liquid gold

final pH 5.0 EC 1.4 (no pH'ing the tea since this was the first batch.)

Any critiques or advice are absolutely welcome from anyone as well!
Thanks again Cap!

Those directions are 1/2 tblsspoon for aggressive feed (watered in), and 1 tablespoon per gallon of coco (meaning if you are going to pre mix it dry).

Those instructions are a little dated. Here are the proper ones: http://ogbiowar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/hydro-instructionsFINAL.pdf

You can simply mix the root pack and foliar packs with water, and water in. No need to make tea if you don't want to, but I suggest tea because it will allow many of the microbes to come out of stasis and multiply prior to you putting them to work.

I also run top drip recirc and I put the tea in my res at 1-2 cups of tea per 5 gallons, and then I have a danner 1800 running 24/7 with a 1/4" drip tube in the intake to make a venturi to add O2.


That tea recipe looks tits. you can add EWC, just strain it. The pyrophyllic clay will keep the algae away, so will the bennies.

 

[glasgrower]

guys im in the uk an cant get certain things and am havin lingo probs.i must jus b dumb or smoke tomn much,latter bein prob,anyway i have tricho powder.am usin a top dripper onto only hydroton.is there any point adding anything with hydroton for bennies better colonise,ie sponge bits'so i read'unsure tho.any ideas on teas.im readn all threads here as i dont think hydroton is condusive for benny growth and needs something.coir could b used sparingly.what u guys think.is there any threads on makin a diy sulphur burner,i loathe to use chems bein a neem convert but growin a mold prone strain black diesel.any words of advice on all topics ive covered would b well appreciated and if u think i can help with grow advice fire away as im quite a good grower now startin to breed.peace out j. LCC UK

 

[glasgrower]

 

[Capulator]

guys im in the uk an cant get certain things and am havin lingo probs.i must jus b dumb or smoke tomn much,latter bein prob,anyway i have tricho powder.am usin a top dripper onto only hydroton.is there any point adding anything with hydroton for bennies better colonise,ie sponge bits'so i read'unsure tho.any ideas on teas.im readn all threads here as i dont think hydroton is condusive for benny growth and needs something.coir could b used sparingly.what u guys think.is there any threads on makin a diy sulphur burner,i loathe to use chems bein a neem convert but growin a mold prone strain black diesel.any words of advice on all topics ive covered would b well appreciated and if u think i can help with grow advice fire away as im quite a good grower now startin to breed.peace out j. LCC UK

The trichoderma will colonize the roots mate, it doesnt matter if they colonize the hydroton you want them on the roots.

 

[rick ratlin]

OK, so I'm a few batches in with the tea, pics are from 10 days since transplant. These plants were started in too hot of a mix by mistake, and became light green, and, well just not pretty. 8 days of veg and just nothing.

This stunting continued, so I changed the tank lowered the EC, and added tea.

This is 3.5 days later. These photos are shot through my method seven glasses to keep color balance in check. Very satisfied with the results so far in hydro. Hopefully I'll have access to a scope soon and get see what's really going on.

The only problem is there is a serious matter building in the rez. I rarely, rarely have this problem since I'm a sanitation freak, so it is scaring me a bit. It's a grey, clotty matter that gets pretty heavy build up after a few days. Maybe I should use one of those aquarium filters that hydrorocks uses brewing his tea, as my tea was way dirtier than his. It might be the clay, it just falls out of solution so easily, or rather won't go into solution easy. I strained my tea with a women's stocking only. Speaking of, how clear should my tea look cap?

I will say this: Going with teas, whether you like em or not, has added new passion, borderline thrilling, to my gardening. Perpetual gardening can get real boring, as nothing changes. It's a journey, and I've got my bags packed.

 

[Capulator]

The grey clumpy stuff may just be the talc carrier. Make sure you let your tea settle out for a few minutes after unplugging the air. Then scoop or pour the liquid off the top.

Tea should be a coffee color. Not clear.


I find my water is crystal clear the day after I drop tea in it.

 

[AlwaysSunny]

So whats the deal with using the Root Pack and chem nutes??

 

[Capulator]

So whats the deal with using the Root Pack and chem nutes??

Totally compatible. That's what I do.