Amending Canna Coco: Ph Locked Out

[SAMCRO]

I had to buy all new coco. It was a bitch. Wore myself out doing it. Got sick with the flu at the same time. It cost me more in RO membranes, CAL MAG and base nutes trying to correct the problem. Should of just bought new. Would have saved me money and time that I lost trying to correct it.

 

[JACKMAYOFFER]

Sorry Guys. Just sent another 700 plus gallons through the tables with base plus cal mag at 10ML per gallon over the last week. Base Veg Nutes at 600 PPM. Going in at 5.0 to 5.5 coming out at 6.1 and 6.2 consistently. Still not good enough to transplant. I'm simply amazed at how this CANNA COCO after 3 runs refuses to give up and bring down the PH.

To give you an idea a normal feeding is about 20 gallons a table. So flushing with hundreds to make PH come down and not working is making me scratch my head at where I went wrong along the way.

I thought it was maybe the table liners throwing me off. So I took a bunch of COCO from the tables and put them in clean 2 gallon buckets and tested run off to see if the black cloth liners were throwing the PH off. Still the same 6.0 without the cloth. Not enough for me to think its the cloth anyways. Checked with 2 different blue lab meters. Getting the same going in and coming out with either meter. Not the meters. PPMs with run off is now climbing as well regardless. Well above 900 to 1000 PPM now with run off.

According to the what Ive read a healthy medium for coco is going in at 5.7 and coming out at 5.7. Should be the same going in and coming out. I figured it the base veg nute deal would make it happen. Lost at what should be done at this point. Other than buying an entire truck load of new coco and staring over.

6.0 IS Really good we have our best results rite at 6.0 in coco.. I think your way over thinking it we have found thats where coco is at its sweet spot at 5.9 tp 6.2 on run off.. If your ppm or ec is to high flush them with 250 ppm and it will slowly lower but 800 to 1000 ppm of run off and 6.0 ph is where we plant our cuttings..JACK

 

[squiggly]

In the future--peat moss is a great amendment to bring pH down.

 

[Taylor Smith]

I'm searching for an amendment to bring PH down in Coco. I'm trying to avoid replacing the COCO but will If I have to. Had a really bad lock out and suffered a major set back in my Canna Coco beds. Using straight Canna Coco we had 3 really good runs and then got hit in the face with Major PH Lock out at week 6. Beds are now empty and completely dry. After the harvest I flushed the crap out of the tables (Like I always Do) to the tune of 1200 plus gallons of RO water in 3 beds. Tried to bring down the Coco PH to 5.5 to reset for the next round. PPMs are down to flushing at the same PPM as going in. However the PH refuses to give up. The PH going in has been set at 5.5, 5.0, 4.0. at different days and still continues to give up and is still locked in at 6.7 with the run off. I'm ready to throw the coco away at this point and start over. The cost of RO membrains are not cheap and if I keep flushing which I don't think is going to do a damn bit of good after 1200 to 1500 gallons already in 3 beds. The main reason to run Coco for me is to not haul bags and bags into the grow facility each run. Cuts back on cost, clean and easy to use. Going to amend the beds with Perlite and some Sunshine Mix #3 and a few other Alien recommendations to help my girls but did not want to waste the money in amending yet if I'm only going to throw this locked out COCO anyways.

So what additive is out there to put directly in the beds to bring down PH to reset COCO for the next run to 5.5? Similar to Dolomite Lime brings the PH back up? What else do you guys who run Coco amend your beds or buckets with prior to each run? Straight Coco is not working for me anymore.

Please don't tell me to keep flushing. If I flush any more I could have already replaced the COCO with the cost of replacing the membrains.

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

SAMCRO

measuring ph with coco is different than with soil or peat, you can not just measure the run off u actually have to take a sample of medium a few inches down place in distilled water then measure ph this is the same with amended coco i.e potting mix some people measure the run off , but doing it the way i described you cant go wrong you will always get an accurate reading.

 

[SAMCRO]

Here's the big issue I had with my Coco beds. Your experience with your coco beds and doing this could result in different results. This is only what happened to me. Thought I would share my information and my trials and headaches I've had that never went away over the last 3 runs. I had to go back to soil beds because I cant afford to have down days or diminished crops or nitpicking dispensary buyers or disappointing my regulars.

After several times to correct yet another lock out in brand new Canna coco and talking with the owner of Heavy 16 several times and going back to my notebooks of grow logs. Here is my big mistake. I was using Protect Silica as my PH up instead of my regular AN Ph Up. I read about using this somewhere on this board probably in the organic section. After I would mix my Heavy 16 nutes in my Rez my PH would be around 4.5 using exclusively Heavy 16 base, prime and fire along with my CAL Mag for my R/O water. The PH run off would be at 6.8 or higher depending on the beds and noticed my beds were not developing any more. Usually started around week 3 to 5. Would try to flush using JACK's method and that brought it down about to 6.5 but still too high and the plants would not respond and they looked like shit. The feeding schedule was getting way too much Potassium Silica which locked out and ruined the coco coir. The Coco would not respond to any amount of water and or any amount of PPM of CAL MAG and BASE as per suggested. It made me scratch my head and frustrated the fuck out of me. So I reached out to some friends and the owner of Heavy 16 trying to figure out my problems on what I was doing different and clearly wrong. Threw the protect silica out and went back to soil beds and went back to my old feeding schedule prior to using exclusive HEAVY 16 and the plants look great. Stopped using PRIME and FIRE. Still using Heavy 16 base plus my old staples and the plants are fine now. Have to watch the soil close because the soil seems to want to drift down on the run off after a few weeks. Summary: Silica as PH up did not work for me in COCO beds and ruined 3 harvests and over $3000 in coco replacement along with diminished yields and zero aroma.

 

[Seamaiden]

Interesting, I never had problems using the Protekt Si. But then, I tend to use the least amount I can get away with, perhaps that plays a role. Also, I don't typically use it every feeding.

In the future--peat moss is a great amendment to bring pH down.

And carbonates, such as oyster shell, dolomite lime, crab and shrimp meal, are fantastic ways to bring pH up. Which is what I'm understanding SAMCRO to be having trouble with.

 

[jaredman]

If you were used to growing synthetics and then you switched to organics the microbial life can change the ph of the medium to what it likes it to be. 6.7 is a great ph for an active organic medium and when the microbial life is thriving depending on weather or not you have more bacteria or more fungi the ph can raise or lower. but sounds like you switched back to synthetics anyways

 

[Cort]

I had a similar problem once. Turned out after I replaced coco I found my ph meter was on its last legs.

 

[socalpunx]

Wait are you re-using the coco over and over again??? or fresh from the bag?????

 

[Cort]

Its common to reuse coco. Nothing wrong with it

 

[socalpunx]

I always start fresh after 2 uses.Ive noticed the third and fourth time using it I always see wierd problems in the plants,the fourth time is always the worse but thats just my experiences

 

[Seamaiden]

Socal, do you use salt-based fertilizers, or organics? If you're using salt-based ferts then the coir would require a lot of flushing to have a good start for the next batch, but if you use organics then you can just inoculate with more beneficials and they'll keep the media in good condition, though the texture does eventually become very fine, maybe too fine.

 

[SAMCRO]

Wait are you re-using the coco over and over again??? or fresh from the bag?????

I was re using the coco 2 to 3 runs. Then I had the lock out. Changed all the beds to fresh Canna coco and then had lock out with fresh beds of coco.
They would not flush properly, they would not correct. At all, at all. Tried to do with cal mag, cal mag and base, etc.
Put 2000 gallons through 3 tables of coco and it would not correct. So I stopped Coco beds all together
because it cost me thousands in final crops with diminished yields and a failed product. I had previous done really well with Coco beds.
But just lost my way with using Silica as my PH up. Couldn't afford to run the risk of another failed crop. Back to Soil beds.

 

[Bangarang]

Here's the big issue I had with my Coco beds. Your experience with your coco beds and doing this could result in different results. This is only what happened to me. Thought I would share my information and my trials and headaches I've had that never went away over the last 3 runs. I had to go back to soil beds because I cant afford to have down days or diminished crops or nitpicking dispensary buyers or disappointing my regulars.

After several times to correct yet another lock out in brand new Canna coco and talking with the owner of Heavy 16 several times and going back to my notebooks of grow logs. Here is my big mistake. I was using Protect Silica as my PH up instead of my regular AN Ph Up. I read about using this somewhere on this board probably in the organic section. After I would mix my Heavy 16 nutes in my Rez my PH would be around 4.5 using exclusively Heavy 16 base, prime and fire along with my CAL Mag for my R/O water. The PH run off would be at 6.8 or higher depending on the beds and noticed my beds were not developing any more. Usually started around week 3 to 5. Would try to flush using JACK's method and that brought it down about to 6.5 but still too high and the plants would not respond and they looked like shit. The feeding schedule was getting way too much Potassium Silica which locked out and ruined the coco coir. The Coco would not respond to any amount of water and or any amount of PPM of CAL MAG and BASE as per suggested. It made me scratch my head and frustrated the fuck out of me. So I reached out to some friends and the owner of Heavy 16 trying to figure out my problems on what I was doing different and clearly wrong. Threw the protect silica out and went back to soil beds and went back to my old feeding schedule prior to using exclusive HEAVY 16 and the plants look great. Stopped using PRIME and FIRE. Still using Heavy 16 base plus my old staples and the plants are fine now. Have to watch the soil close because the soil seems to want to drift down on the run off after a few weeks. Summary: Silica as PH up did not work for me in COCO beds and ruined 3 harvests and over $3000 in coco replacement along with diminished yields and zero aroma.

This could be part of or the exact same problem i had recently. Here is an example of what happened in my world.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...flower-development-day-41-small-knobby.57705/

 

[LordOfThNugz]

I have noticed that sometimes that with repeated use of the same coco, the actual fibers begin to soak in the nutes. In turn they leach out slowly at later use after buildup. Even when flushing and prepping to reuse coco, it is not sitting in it for 3-4 months just soaking like it does when in use for a grow. Takes longer to get it all the way out. I have just started using mine for only two rodeos then buy more fresh. Much cheaper than having to correct the problem and screwing up a system that has been dialed. Otherwise, you can end up with bad medium ph and runoff. I have noticed in this forum that most of you like to keep your PH higher. I usually run mine at 5.5 and only two runs. Since I started doing that I have had no PH probs or nute lock.

May not apply here, but that is my .02

 

[Seamaiden]

Not quite how I do things, but it's an option to consider. Banging your head against the wall is only so effective.

 

[bibbles]

I have a similar issue, though in reverse; whatever I'm feeding, it's running off at 5.2, and nothing seems to change this.

I flushed with straight R/O after an eary harvest and delay in processing it for this run due to extremely high ppm runoff... also it was pretty dark. I expected the color to fade with the ppms, but it didn't, and by the time i checked it was too low, and the pH had dropped to 5.2. I flushed with base and calimagic and some epsom in an effort to rebuffer it, and the runoff ppm didn't change for some time... then it did all at once, and it's a bit too high, but the pH hasn't budged.

Phosphorus is locked out hard, and I'm like a day away from saying fuck it and starting to flush at like 10.0.

Edit: Might have ODed with Calimagic? I'm seeing other posts which suggest like 1ml/gal, but then later on those same people will quote wholly different numbers, without much reason for the change, while generic terms like "calmag" are all but meaningless; Jack seemed to suggest 10ml/gal earlier, but does that translate to Calimagic? Flushing with 2 EC seems ridiculous.