Any advice is appreciated!

randyhighwood · Dec 15, 2012

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Clones
2. How old are your plants? all stages
3. How tall are your plants? 4 ft (all stages Clones showing probs too)
4. What size containers are they planted in? 4in, 1 gal, 3 gals, 10 gals
5. What is your soil mix?Sunshine 4 -
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use? when the plants are light/dry, finger method. 2-3 days depending on stage. RO
7. What is the pH of your water? RO WATER - 7.5/40ppm/.1ec before any feed. 6.2-6.8 depending on nutes low ppm/ec never higher then 800ppm
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? Just converted to Jacks (20-20-20 veg)(10-30-20 flower)
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? I have with ACT & Serenade
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") flower 5600w hps, veg 1600 mh/t5, clone room fluo
11. How close are your lights to the plants? inches to feet - high enough for my hand not to feel much heat.
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 600+
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? 75-79 day, get down to 68 at nite
14. What is the pH of the soil?5.8 - 6.5 ( some containers are amended with lime some are not)
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? some fungus nats after not letting them dry enough
16. How much experience do you have growing? 3yrs.

So, ive had my last few cloning attempts not go so well - bad rooting ratio in both aeroponics and dome. some of the clones that made it then started showing signs of fungus or diseases. I had been doing a supersoil organic grow but just switched back to chems, so i could be doing something stupid and creating these probs. This is really hurting my perpetual garden... i have sprayed plants with serenade and Daconil. I have picked up some Immunox but havent applied. Please help with any advice. I think it might be septoria, black spot, Downy Mildew. Ive heard Kop-r-spray works. Will sulfur burn help? Ive never had any bug/mold issues before and my temps/hum have been the same for a few years. I need to implement preventative maintenance but have to figure out what this is and the best way to remove/eradicate/prevent it. If youve had any experience similar to this please help me out.

randyhighwood · Dec 15, 2012

few more shots...

Seamaiden · Dec 16, 2012

Hi randy, I can't say how to work with the Jacks 20-20-20, I'll leave that to others. What I see indicates generally a P- to my eyes, and possibly a slight Mg-.

Cort · Dec 16, 2012

Are you absolutely sure they are fungus gnats? RA flyers and gnats look pretty similar to the naked eye.

randyhighwood · Dec 16, 2012

Hey Guys, thanks for the responses. Right on, my buddy said that he thought it was a nute issue. And the plants that are in flower were getting act teas then i switched to jacks. So that could be causing an issue.
Cort, Ive had nats before and i just expected them to be the same. So these might be RA flyers?! When lights come on I will take a look and further investigation.
Thanks again!

randyhighwood · Dec 16, 2012

After reading on RA, i think that could be an issue. Still need to examine whatever is flying around in my room. Though, the clones that i have in my heat dome look like they have an issue on their leaves! Which makes me think fungus again...this is really killing me. I'll post a pic of the clones later today.
Thanks again for your thoughts

cctt · Dec 16, 2012

Clones will carry over whatever health issues came from their parent - even if they don't have root aphids (or roots) they still have to recover from whatever deficiencies they may have inherited.
That said, those pictures don't look like RA damage to me. They make me think of phosphorus and maybe calcium issues.

randyhighwood · Dec 17, 2012

AAHH! This shit is getting worse.. So the plants that i recently put in flower, which i had treated with Serenade are showing signs of yellowing, some on the bottom and some in the upper canopy. They also show wilt, though it doesn't seem to be over water or under water. Ph might be a little low. Some of my fan leaves looks like something ate them, parts just gone! I did identify the bugs, or at least the ones that i looked at under the mic were gnats. When i looked at some of the leaves under the microscope i noticed little white bumps, not trics but looked similar though this plant is in veg. Help. I need to figure out the best action plan! And the cuttings that i took are showing similar brown patches in the heat dome. Please give me some insight....im down and out right now.

randyhighwood · Dec 17, 2012

This is a very sad day, ANY advice is appreciated. I fear that this is Leaf Septoria!!! I hope not but have to think for the worst and hope for the best. Will sulfur burn work with a Fungus like that? This issue has been getting the best of me for a few weeks now. Im not sure what me next move should be. Thanks friends

randyhighwood · Dec 17, 2012

few more shots of the issues

randyhighwood · Dec 17, 2012

Do you think i should bring in new clones to see if they start developing similar symptoms? The most annoying issue, beside the obvious issues, is that clones are not wanting to root and when they do they already have issues.

Seamaiden · Dec 18, 2012

It is NOT Septoria, I'm damn near 100% sure of that because I'm seeing nothing that looks like it, and you're not complaining that your plants are yellowing and defoliating, which are two other tells that would help ascertain a positive diagnosis.

I see Ca- and P- (calcium and phosphorous, respectively), but cannot say for certain without full plant photos, we really need to see more full plant shots.

Get those NPS strips OUT of your flowering room! Dichlorvos is fucking bad shit.

Hrm, I can't upload files through the reply box while IN the thread. Let's see if I can upload in the More Options mode. Newp, no can do. WTF? Also, Chrome is having a bitch of a time with this site, keeps wanting to kill the pages.

randyhighwood · Dec 18, 2012

Seamaiden,
Thanks for the reply! That makes me feel better. I hope that it is just nute probs. What i've noticed is that the leaf markings develop and then slowly they take over the leaf which eventually yellows and dies. I was just reading last nite that those No Pest Strips are really bad, they have been removed! In regard to the clones, if the plant that they came from was deficient would they show it that quickly when in heat dome? CCTT mentioned the same deficiency's i just didnt think they would show that quick when rooting. When the lights come on i will take more photos of the whole plant. Thanks again for your time and advice.

randyhighwood · Dec 18, 2012

I see Ca- and P- (calcium and phosphorous, respectively), but cannot say for certain without full plant photos, we really need to see more full plant shots.

Seamadien
Here are some full plant photos. Im not sure why i immediately thought of fungal disease, but i did! I was a supersoil organic guy and moved to Chems. Hadn't used ph meter in awhile ...made too many changes at once in the garden and money has been tight. So i think that there are a few things going on... Phosphorus, Cal & mag. I use RO and didnt per mix dolomite lime with some of the soil batches. I also didnt add more perlite which has been keeping them more wet then I like. They also could have been some bad watering practices that effected the ph. So i am going to top dress with Lime and feed some epsom next watering. Does that seem right?

Thanks again!

Seamaiden · Dec 19, 2012

Excellent photo dump! Ok, first things first, photo #3 I would want to look at much, much closer. I'm thinking to rule OUT broad/cyclamen mites, as they can cause that sort of puckering.

Photos 9-11 (? lost count), I see slight N+, slight P-, and what also appears to be natural N-/yellowing from the plant just growing.

That LAST picture would cause me to wonder about Septoria. However, Septoria becomes a real problem when it begins to become the cause of rapid yellowing that leads to just-as-rapid defoliation. That is one of the Dxing 'tells.' However, I see nothing wrong with treating, if perhaps prophylactically, with a good organic fungicide and regimen. For Septoria it's quite simple to avoid vectoring the fungus; this includes not letting affected plants touch other plants and keeping affected plant material away from other plants, not splashing water (this is how the fungus spreads), and removing all affected plant material and disposing of it properly ASAP (burning would be a good option here).

I did use Kop-R-Safe for the plants that I had that were affected, which were gifted clones taken in years ago, long before I knew much of anything about growing cannabis, let alone organically. Care must be taken to not let it get into waterways, as the cupric solution will kill invertebrates.

randyhighwood · Dec 19, 2012

Hey Thanks SeaMaiden!
I couldnt get much of a close shot of photo 3, though under a microscope it looks like little pimples..white/clear dots on the leaf surface. No bugs, just little hairs and where the issues are those bumps appear. Ive treated with some epsom and top dressed with lime on the containers that didnt have the soil premixed. Here are a few more shots. As for the last photo (above in last post) i think that is a nute/lockout issue. but not certain. The really damaged & curled up leave below was from a plant that i harvested today...Thanks again for all the help.

randyhighwood · Dec 19, 2012

last few

cardrack111 · Dec 20, 2012

i do see some old and new thrip damage, on some of the pics. also, what size magnification did u use for inspection

randyhighwood · Dec 20, 2012

Hey Cardrack...Im using a 420scope 60-100x zoom. What pics are you referencing? Im going really look these plant over again tonight. Are you proposing that the deformed leaf is a result of thrips?