TrichromeFan
- 1,850
- 83
Bobby,
I love that DIY cool box link. Simple but effective.
I love that DIY cool box link. Simple but effective.
Any Thermodynamics/Watercooling Pros Out There?
R
RMCG
- 2,050
- 48
Nobodynobody
- 259
- 18
Check out hydro innovations site. There is a new video of a Mod that came out, from the last trade show. Check "YouTube - sbkeen's Channel" to see another XL idea of an water cool coil.
W
weedfarm
- 130
- 0
not sure if I read everything right but a radiator for the rez in the crawlspace would probably help a lot.
K
keepinYouNCheck
Guest
Worth it?
Just for reference, I know a buddy that runs two 1000w bulbs in a fresca sol. He has a 100 gallon res that water is drawn from through the lights and back to res. A 1/3 chiller is taking water from and to res to control water temp.
In my buddy's experience, the submersible water pump (1.2 amps) used to feed the lights generates enough heat to keep the chiller (8.5amps) running nearly 24/7. So, she put timers on the water pump and chiller to shut off during night cycle to not waste electricity.
If you want to know about your resevoir being cooled by the cool ground under your house you should search "Geo Thermal Cooling Systems". You will learn that a massive amount of surface area needs to be 2 feet in the earth to exchange the heat with the 55 constant temperature of the earth. What you would do is pump the warm water through copper piping buried and it would come out cold on the other end. You would need to figure out the BTUs of heat on the exit end of the lights water outlet.
You're chillers sound very small for the Co2 gen and Ice boxes you are running. My friend feels that their 1/3 HP chiller is too small as the temp back from lights is 2 degrees hotter than the chiller can cool. Basically the reservoir heats up slowly over 12 hours. Right now while its very cold friend has timer turn off chiller 2 hours before lights turn off to heat up res. Then hot water pumping through light even when off warm the grow room in the very cold morning hours.
It's all about heat exchange capacity and friends opinion is that it is very expense to use water cooling, not any more stealth as you have a massive chiller condenser on the side of your house blowing a huge stream of hot air up in the cold of winter. If your police fly with flir cameras it would look extremely bizzare that on a cold night you are running an AC unit. Also your nieghbors may wonder why your noising AC unit runs on cold nights. The proper sized chiller is a chill king not an aquarium chiller. You always need more chiller than you want to admit. Plan on $1500 for the chiller.
Alternativley, you can buy a $1500 a split AC system as other poster mentioned that self installs in combination with your cooltube setup. They sell them at the hydro stores sometimes. Ac probably drawns similar power to Chiller without the need for pumps, safety water flow switches, timers, logic controllers, possible water leaks that kill your $125 bulbs, etc. Then you'd be "sealed" and could do CO2 more effectively as well. Even with water cooled lights you still have radiant heat build up that needs to be dealt with in the room, either AC or exausted.
Since you say you can't exhaust you need AC. Using the Ice boxes as AC will work but you are essentially building your own AC unit using more expensive parts than buying an AC unit that proably would dial in easier than you playing with water temp, positioning and all the logic controlling to manipulate all the equipment you are attempting to use to exchange heat.
I would not go water cooled in your situation, you will pay more money each month in electricity and more money building it out.
Yes, water is a more efficient conductor of heat and has a higher capacity to hold heat than air, however that efficency does not translate into economic efficiency. It is more expense to chill water capturing all the heat of the lights than cooltube the light heat out and only have to AC cool the radiant heat.
Just what a heard.
Just for reference, I know a buddy that runs two 1000w bulbs in a fresca sol. He has a 100 gallon res that water is drawn from through the lights and back to res. A 1/3 chiller is taking water from and to res to control water temp.
In my buddy's experience, the submersible water pump (1.2 amps) used to feed the lights generates enough heat to keep the chiller (8.5amps) running nearly 24/7. So, she put timers on the water pump and chiller to shut off during night cycle to not waste electricity.
If you want to know about your resevoir being cooled by the cool ground under your house you should search "Geo Thermal Cooling Systems". You will learn that a massive amount of surface area needs to be 2 feet in the earth to exchange the heat with the 55 constant temperature of the earth. What you would do is pump the warm water through copper piping buried and it would come out cold on the other end. You would need to figure out the BTUs of heat on the exit end of the lights water outlet.
You're chillers sound very small for the Co2 gen and Ice boxes you are running. My friend feels that their 1/3 HP chiller is too small as the temp back from lights is 2 degrees hotter than the chiller can cool. Basically the reservoir heats up slowly over 12 hours. Right now while its very cold friend has timer turn off chiller 2 hours before lights turn off to heat up res. Then hot water pumping through light even when off warm the grow room in the very cold morning hours.
It's all about heat exchange capacity and friends opinion is that it is very expense to use water cooling, not any more stealth as you have a massive chiller condenser on the side of your house blowing a huge stream of hot air up in the cold of winter. If your police fly with flir cameras it would look extremely bizzare that on a cold night you are running an AC unit. Also your nieghbors may wonder why your noising AC unit runs on cold nights. The proper sized chiller is a chill king not an aquarium chiller. You always need more chiller than you want to admit. Plan on $1500 for the chiller.
Alternativley, you can buy a $1500 a split AC system as other poster mentioned that self installs in combination with your cooltube setup. They sell them at the hydro stores sometimes. Ac probably drawns similar power to Chiller without the need for pumps, safety water flow switches, timers, logic controllers, possible water leaks that kill your $125 bulbs, etc. Then you'd be "sealed" and could do CO2 more effectively as well. Even with water cooled lights you still have radiant heat build up that needs to be dealt with in the room, either AC or exausted.
Since you say you can't exhaust you need AC. Using the Ice boxes as AC will work but you are essentially building your own AC unit using more expensive parts than buying an AC unit that proably would dial in easier than you playing with water temp, positioning and all the logic controlling to manipulate all the equipment you are attempting to use to exchange heat.
I would not go water cooled in your situation, you will pay more money each month in electricity and more money building it out.
Yes, water is a more efficient conductor of heat and has a higher capacity to hold heat than air, however that efficency does not translate into economic efficiency. It is more expense to chill water capturing all the heat of the lights than cooltube the light heat out and only have to AC cool the radiant heat.
Just what a heard.
B
Bobby Smith
- 1,378
- 0
KYIC - your friend needs to upgrade his/her chiller size - 1/3HP per light is what's recommended.
Your other points are very valid, and the idea to check out geothermal cooling links was a very good one - those brought up an issue that I had considered but not really thought to be as large of an issue as it was - the fact that the crawlspace air will eventually reach the temps of the outside air when 600CFM of air are being sucked from it to cool my cooltube.
However, those geothermal sites also gave me an idea that could be much more efficient - dig down into the earth a few feet in my crawlspace and put a long copper coil (or heater core, etc.), and that would stay 55F even in the dead of summer.
Not sure if doing all that work (along with the associated "dialing in") would be worth it to me; I'm going to have to see how this 14K BTU portable holds up and exactly how much stink it exhausts (my main concern and the main driver behind my desire to go watercooled - want to be fully sealed and can't with a portable).
Again, thanks to everybody for all your help, and this project is not dead - it's just on hold for the next month or two while I finish up the actual room.
Your other points are very valid, and the idea to check out geothermal cooling links was a very good one - those brought up an issue that I had considered but not really thought to be as large of an issue as it was - the fact that the crawlspace air will eventually reach the temps of the outside air when 600CFM of air are being sucked from it to cool my cooltube.
However, those geothermal sites also gave me an idea that could be much more efficient - dig down into the earth a few feet in my crawlspace and put a long copper coil (or heater core, etc.), and that would stay 55F even in the dead of summer.
Not sure if doing all that work (along with the associated "dialing in") would be worth it to me; I'm going to have to see how this 14K BTU portable holds up and exactly how much stink it exhausts (my main concern and the main driver behind my desire to go watercooled - want to be fully sealed and can't with a portable).
Again, thanks to everybody for all your help, and this project is not dead - it's just on hold for the next month or two while I finish up the actual room.
R
Rednick
Guest
Copper is toooooo expensive, don't use it. True, it has the best dispersion of many metals, but not really a concern if the loop is long enough. Go poly is probably the most economical.
2 ton AC ~ $1,000 - $2,000
1 HP chiller ~ $1,000
That's two to three Gs that can be saved, plus electricity, which is only going to get more expensive in the near term.
Big consideration is having that coil dug to the same or close as possible level with your cooling device (i.e. at res level or light level depending on the cooling needs, but if planning on cooling air and res, just push the air down to res level).
Head on the pump is what is going to cause the most inefficiency in a water cooled setup.
I'll work up some calculations and such here soon. Planning on a water cooled, UC setup, real soon. Since I don't have any shit running underground in my backyard, might be time to do some excavation.
Great thread on ICmag, I'll try and sum the thread in the next week for those who do not wish to read the whole thang.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164586
2 ton AC ~ $1,000 - $2,000
1 HP chiller ~ $1,000
That's two to three Gs that can be saved, plus electricity, which is only going to get more expensive in the near term.
Big consideration is having that coil dug to the same or close as possible level with your cooling device (i.e. at res level or light level depending on the cooling needs, but if planning on cooling air and res, just push the air down to res level).
Head on the pump is what is going to cause the most inefficiency in a water cooled setup.
I'll work up some calculations and such here soon. Planning on a water cooled, UC setup, real soon. Since I don't have any shit running underground in my backyard, might be time to do some excavation.
Great thread on ICmag, I'll try and sum the thread in the next week for those who do not wish to read the whole thang.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164586
R
Rednick
Guest
Post #68:
http://www.geocomfort.com/
http://www.reddawn.com/featart11-98.html
Post #71:
For example a loop in damp sand would take 5240' , but the same loop in dry clay would take 8440'.
The is no such thing as one recommendation that works in all applications.
Over sizing the loop is not a big problem other than the cost of installation. Pumping costs would increase a little, but loop temps would be more moderate resulting in greater COP.
My pipe is in a 1'wide by 9' deep trench.
I included the above link to show what a slinky looks like. I do not have any confidence in their loop designing ability.
Just a couple posts from greenbuildingtalk.com
Post #100:
Originally Posted by Doradoguy How cold do we think the river needs to be. I know the bottom is cooler if I had to guess maybe 58 degrees at the bottom. I'm afraid it would warm up traveling the 75 feet. How warm would be acceptable? Anybody have a clue?
You want to maintain at least a 10-15*F temp differential, so a 75*F room should get roughly 60*F water.
My advice would be to bury the tubing in a trench to keep it underground (rent a trencher to get it a few feet deep at least) and then backfill it. Tubing sitting on the surface would indeed get too warm and would be prone to more damage. If you have gophers make sure your lines are chew-proof, I think they make an aluminum-sleeved- PEX line now that oughtta work but I'd do some homework on it to be safe.
Post #101:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyman You want to maintain at least a 10-15*F temp differential, so a 75*F room should get roughly 60*F water.My advice would be to bury the tubing in a trench to keep it underground (rent a trencher to get it a few feet deep at least) and then backfill it. Tubing sitting on the surface would indeed get too warm and would be prone to more damage. If you have gophers make sure your lines are chew-proof, I think they make an aluminum-sleeved- PEX line now that oughtta work but I'd do some homework on it to be safe.
The piping you're talking is called Kitec. It's not made anymore because of all the lawsuits and problem's it caused after end user's installed it.
You can buy triple lined pex piping @ Home Depot. It's red in color, and has some special anti-corrosive lining in it. It's specifically made for hydronic applications.
To have any kind of cooling effect, you're water has to be 20F colder than your ambient room temp.
Post #114:
Originally Posted by bipotato If you don't have access to very cheap cold water, you're just wasting your time and money.
Ground water for the watercooled setup I did was around 68-70 degree, so I don't think you need VERY cold water.
Post #181:
Post #186:
just did the math,
1 trench will be almost 1.5 tons of cooling. On average 1 loop = about 180 feet of tubing.
40 feet trench, of 3 feet diameter circles over lapped every 1.5 feet. = about 255 feet of tubing. so just to call it safe 280 feet will be more then enough to pull this off. For how much? I figure $350 in tubing. $200 in bob cat rental, plus water pump around $300. Res, $30. and then at end your heat exchangers, like ice box.
So lets say, I call it a day for around $1300. 1.5 tons of cooling, Geothermal, might need to run only 5-6 amps of power for the pump. Works all year around. Sounds good to me.
Allot better over 3-5 k for 1.5 ton a/c, with 15 amps of power, and limited to only positive temps.
Something like this. There is no better pattern, But there is always the best pattern for the size of the yard. I am not going to drill at all. So those who are scared to attempt a DIY geo thermal, dont be. If you make it big enough, you could use it for your central heat or cooling.
That guy has at least 4-5 tons.
I might keep you guys posted.
Post #189:
well i did some more math on heat loss, I am going to go with 600 feet of tubing. My loops s should just great in the summer, but even better in the winter.
Post #204:
^^^
Condensation from the heat exchangers.
You would need to make sure you collect the condensation from anything that has the cold water running through it. You may have it insulated which could potentially cause mold, so I would worry about that.
Best case scenario is to keep your dew point out of reach. Check this site to see when condensation occurs (dew point) the water temp vs. ambient temp.
http://www.dpcalc.org/
Post #246:
Hydronic Cooled.......:dance013:
OK.....here it is. I had a few skeptic's -myself included- question whether or not this was possible. I'm not really sure how many grower's have tried this.
During the summer, I encased over 500 feet of 1/2" Pex piping into a 7 inch thick concrete deck that I constructed in my back yard. I then had a guy that I know who specializes in hydronics at his regular day job custom build a manifold of copper piping that would give me enough cold intakes to chill 2 seperate nute reservoir's that each have a 12 foot 3/4" I.D. stainless steel coil, and 3 individual cooling rad's. The hydronic system is pressurized to 12 psi with the green tank. I use a 3 speed hydronic pump that's set on low, and its plugged into a perpertual timer set for 5 min on, 5 min off.
The system utilizes water mixed with a special food grade glycol so that it can never freeze up in the dead of winter. Since my scrubber fan is always on 24/7, I hooked up one of the cooling rad's to it. I also wrapped insulation around all of the copper manifold, as well as the intake and outake hose that carries the glycol.
Heat and cooling problem's are now distant memories. And, most important of all, I have no need for any ridiculously noisey and expensive chiller's that suck back power faster than Jenna Jamieson. The only power I require to run all of this is the small, super efficent german built Grundfos 110V hydronic pump. It's the little red thingy on the top row of the manifold.
Here is a pic of the entire system that I mounted on plywood and then nailed to the wall.
I don't know what else to say....so far....it works like a charm.....
Post #247:
Quote:
Originally Posted by toohighmf I'm actually considering burrying my res outside to keep the res the temp of the earth. approx 50F. Think that will work with a smaller chiller?
Burying a rez will do very little. It will just heat up the ground around it. Marginal benefit over keeping the rez above ground.
What does work is running geothermal 3/4 or 1 in line underground in a coil pattern.
Say you are putting in a paver patio or retaining wall and have the utilities mark the wires and pipes underground so you don't hit them. Then rent a trencher...cheap and effective. A trencher that does a 8 in wide 6 ft deep trench is ideal. Run it slow so the soil is broken up fine so it can be repacked tightly. You'll need about a 30 foot trench per light. Depends on if you have an off cycle or are running a flipbox. If you have an off cycle you can get away with less since the total water volume takes a long time to really heat up and easily cools during the night cycle. If you run a flip box you must carefully calculate how many tons of ac you need and translate it into feet of geothermal line since it must work continuously.
Geothermal line is very cheap relative to buying a chiller and the electricity that goes along with using it. All you need is a big pump and water cooled lights. Don't run more than 4 lights on a string, i.e have two small rez one to pull water from into the lights and the other to drop it back in to the geo system. So use multiply strings between rez's if using more than 4 lights.
If you have a pond or stream nearby a copper heat exchanger is even more efficient since it requires less line to pump through.
Once installed these set ups are about as green as it gets. Just power the pump and put the extra energy into more lights!! You can even bury the main pump outside. Silence
Never seen it done but in theory if you live in a winter climate the heat from your lights would be easily used to heat one's house. Basically the heat exchanger for your home's heat pump is placed in the hot water coming off the lights. It is incredibly efficient for a heat pump to heat a house starting with hot water. So if that were set up a person in a cold climate could heat their house with the grow lights through the coupling of water cooled lights to an existing heat pump. And even more power available to run more lights
http://www.geocomfort.com/
http://www.reddawn.com/featart11-98.html
Post #71:
For example a loop in damp sand would take 5240' , but the same loop in dry clay would take 8440'.
The is no such thing as one recommendation that works in all applications.
Over sizing the loop is not a big problem other than the cost of installation. Pumping costs would increase a little, but loop temps would be more moderate resulting in greater COP.
My pipe is in a 1'wide by 9' deep trench.
I included the above link to show what a slinky looks like. I do not have any confidence in their loop designing ability.
Just a couple posts from greenbuildingtalk.com
Post #100:
Originally Posted by Doradoguy How cold do we think the river needs to be. I know the bottom is cooler if I had to guess maybe 58 degrees at the bottom. I'm afraid it would warm up traveling the 75 feet. How warm would be acceptable? Anybody have a clue?
You want to maintain at least a 10-15*F temp differential, so a 75*F room should get roughly 60*F water.
My advice would be to bury the tubing in a trench to keep it underground (rent a trencher to get it a few feet deep at least) and then backfill it. Tubing sitting on the surface would indeed get too warm and would be prone to more damage. If you have gophers make sure your lines are chew-proof, I think they make an aluminum-sleeved- PEX line now that oughtta work but I'd do some homework on it to be safe.
Post #101:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyman You want to maintain at least a 10-15*F temp differential, so a 75*F room should get roughly 60*F water.My advice would be to bury the tubing in a trench to keep it underground (rent a trencher to get it a few feet deep at least) and then backfill it. Tubing sitting on the surface would indeed get too warm and would be prone to more damage. If you have gophers make sure your lines are chew-proof, I think they make an aluminum-sleeved- PEX line now that oughtta work but I'd do some homework on it to be safe.
The piping you're talking is called Kitec. It's not made anymore because of all the lawsuits and problem's it caused after end user's installed it.
You can buy triple lined pex piping @ Home Depot. It's red in color, and has some special anti-corrosive lining in it. It's specifically made for hydronic applications.
To have any kind of cooling effect, you're water has to be 20F colder than your ambient room temp.
Post #114:
Originally Posted by bipotato If you don't have access to very cheap cold water, you're just wasting your time and money.
Ground water for the watercooled setup I did was around 68-70 degree, so I don't think you need VERY cold water.
Post #181:
Post #186:
just did the math,
1 trench will be almost 1.5 tons of cooling. On average 1 loop = about 180 feet of tubing.
40 feet trench, of 3 feet diameter circles over lapped every 1.5 feet. = about 255 feet of tubing. so just to call it safe 280 feet will be more then enough to pull this off. For how much? I figure $350 in tubing. $200 in bob cat rental, plus water pump around $300. Res, $30. and then at end your heat exchangers, like ice box.
So lets say, I call it a day for around $1300. 1.5 tons of cooling, Geothermal, might need to run only 5-6 amps of power for the pump. Works all year around. Sounds good to me.
Allot better over 3-5 k for 1.5 ton a/c, with 15 amps of power, and limited to only positive temps.
Something like this. There is no better pattern, But there is always the best pattern for the size of the yard. I am not going to drill at all. So those who are scared to attempt a DIY geo thermal, dont be. If you make it big enough, you could use it for your central heat or cooling.
O'Leary Plumbing, Heating & Electrical
O'Leary Plumbing, Heating & Electricaloffers reliable East Troy heating and plumbing services that are performed by highly trained technicians. Call now for a free estimate.
www.olearyplumbingandheating.com
Practical Environmentalist
Useful environmentally friendly news and advice.
www.practicalenvironmentalist.com
That guy has at least 4-5 tons.
I might keep you guys posted.
Post #189:
well i did some more math on heat loss, I am going to go with 600 feet of tubing. My loops s should just great in the summer, but even better in the winter.
Post #204:
^^^
Condensation from the heat exchangers.
You would need to make sure you collect the condensation from anything that has the cold water running through it. You may have it insulated which could potentially cause mold, so I would worry about that.
Best case scenario is to keep your dew point out of reach. Check this site to see when condensation occurs (dew point) the water temp vs. ambient temp.
http://www.dpcalc.org/
Post #246:
Hydronic Cooled.......:dance013:
OK.....here it is. I had a few skeptic's -myself included- question whether or not this was possible. I'm not really sure how many grower's have tried this.
During the summer, I encased over 500 feet of 1/2" Pex piping into a 7 inch thick concrete deck that I constructed in my back yard. I then had a guy that I know who specializes in hydronics at his regular day job custom build a manifold of copper piping that would give me enough cold intakes to chill 2 seperate nute reservoir's that each have a 12 foot 3/4" I.D. stainless steel coil, and 3 individual cooling rad's. The hydronic system is pressurized to 12 psi with the green tank. I use a 3 speed hydronic pump that's set on low, and its plugged into a perpertual timer set for 5 min on, 5 min off.
The system utilizes water mixed with a special food grade glycol so that it can never freeze up in the dead of winter. Since my scrubber fan is always on 24/7, I hooked up one of the cooling rad's to it. I also wrapped insulation around all of the copper manifold, as well as the intake and outake hose that carries the glycol.
Heat and cooling problem's are now distant memories. And, most important of all, I have no need for any ridiculously noisey and expensive chiller's that suck back power faster than Jenna Jamieson. The only power I require to run all of this is the small, super efficent german built Grundfos 110V hydronic pump. It's the little red thingy on the top row of the manifold.
Here is a pic of the entire system that I mounted on plywood and then nailed to the wall.
I don't know what else to say....so far....it works like a charm.....
Post #247:
Quote:
Originally Posted by toohighmf I'm actually considering burrying my res outside to keep the res the temp of the earth. approx 50F. Think that will work with a smaller chiller?
Burying a rez will do very little. It will just heat up the ground around it. Marginal benefit over keeping the rez above ground.
What does work is running geothermal 3/4 or 1 in line underground in a coil pattern.
Say you are putting in a paver patio or retaining wall and have the utilities mark the wires and pipes underground so you don't hit them. Then rent a trencher...cheap and effective. A trencher that does a 8 in wide 6 ft deep trench is ideal. Run it slow so the soil is broken up fine so it can be repacked tightly. You'll need about a 30 foot trench per light. Depends on if you have an off cycle or are running a flipbox. If you have an off cycle you can get away with less since the total water volume takes a long time to really heat up and easily cools during the night cycle. If you run a flip box you must carefully calculate how many tons of ac you need and translate it into feet of geothermal line since it must work continuously.
Geothermal line is very cheap relative to buying a chiller and the electricity that goes along with using it. All you need is a big pump and water cooled lights. Don't run more than 4 lights on a string, i.e have two small rez one to pull water from into the lights and the other to drop it back in to the geo system. So use multiply strings between rez's if using more than 4 lights.
If you have a pond or stream nearby a copper heat exchanger is even more efficient since it requires less line to pump through.
Once installed these set ups are about as green as it gets. Just power the pump and put the extra energy into more lights!! You can even bury the main pump outside. Silence
Never seen it done but in theory if you live in a winter climate the heat from your lights would be easily used to heat one's house. Basically the heat exchanger for your home's heat pump is placed in the hot water coming off the lights. It is incredibly efficient for a heat pump to heat a house starting with hot water. So if that were set up a person in a cold climate could heat their house with the grow lights through the coupling of water cooled lights to an existing heat pump. And even more power available to run more lights
Last edited by a moderator:
R
Rednick
Guest
I'm trying to get some numbers from the people who said "you need X amount of tubing for Y tons of cooling capacity". So I have PM'd them on the other site.
If anyone has some good ideas, or knows people who could shed light on the heat-exchange properties, constants, ect...That would save me a lot of book opening!
Left college awhile ago, and don't plan on going back. But if I have to enter that library, I will.
Needed:
Constants,
Variables (location in US, depth of dig, soil mechanics [one person mentioned wet vs. dry soil conditions).
Any help on the mathematic/scientific side of things is most welcomed!
I already have my ideas on the Growroom Design side of things, may have drawings up in a week or two.
But I am really struggling on where to go next/what to do, to knock out some real accurate numbers, and create some formulas so I can pop them into speadsheet software.
Thanks.
If anyone has some good ideas, or knows people who could shed light on the heat-exchange properties, constants, ect...That would save me a lot of book opening!
Left college awhile ago, and don't plan on going back. But if I have to enter that library, I will.
Needed:
Constants,
Variables (location in US, depth of dig, soil mechanics [one person mentioned wet vs. dry soil conditions).
Any help on the mathematic/scientific side of things is most welcomed!
I already have my ideas on the Growroom Design side of things, may have drawings up in a week or two.
But I am really struggling on where to go next/what to do, to knock out some real accurate numbers, and create some formulas so I can pop them into speadsheet software.
Thanks.
Nobodynobody
- 259
- 18
Not sure if its my PC but i can not see the images from your last 2 post Rednick. I heard another crazy fellow saying some office building uses glycol as for cooling. Never believed him because he said it got cold over night with out any kind of chiller or compressor....
Some of the madness kinda makes scene. Read another grow of a 16x 1000w 1500gRes that did far too...
I like to see if your idea works with glycol and geo them ideas of pex tube. If so i am all down to do water cooling for my next room i am planning.
I had the idea of making ice box for an 10", hooked it to the hot line return. then have a 2000g res under ground. with no chiller for 4x 1000w. PM me if it works lol
Some of the madness kinda makes scene. Read another grow of a 16x 1000w 1500gRes that did far too...
I like to see if your idea works with glycol and geo them ideas of pex tube. If so i am all down to do water cooling for my next room i am planning.
I had the idea of making ice box for an 10", hooked it to the hot line return. then have a 2000g res under ground. with no chiller for 4x 1000w. PM me if it works lol
R
Rednick
Guest
No, they didn't post over from Word.
(or maybe you are seeing shit, man????)
You will have to visit ICmag to see the picture.
(or maybe you are seeing shit, man????)
You will have to visit ICmag to see the picture.
M
MTgrower
- 247
- 0
Most of you guys are using chillers that are too small. I run the entire Hydro Innovations setup in two rooms. One with 6000W, water cooled dehumidifier, six icebox, hydrogen pro, ice cap, and a 2hp chill king spot chiller running just glycol, no water. The 12,000W flower room is the same, but uses a 5 hp industrial chill king chiller (self contained large res.). Both with the cold temp upgrade.
I HIGHLY recommend a bypass valve that will run everything on run-to-waste. If your pump, or chiller fails in a sealed room, you need a bypass to resume cooling. Otherwise, risk burning the garden.
I love this company, their products, and the customer support. My rooms, while expensive to build, are top notch and dialed in perfectly. Thank you Hydro Innovations.
I HIGHLY recommend a bypass valve that will run everything on run-to-waste. If your pump, or chiller fails in a sealed room, you need a bypass to resume cooling. Otherwise, risk burning the garden.
I love this company, their products, and the customer support. My rooms, while expensive to build, are top notch and dialed in perfectly. Thank you Hydro Innovations.
B
Bobby Smith
- 1,378
- 0
Rednick, that's a sweet summary of that thread - I think I speak for a lot of people when I say "thanks" for the effort on that - well done, bro.
M
MediMary
- 997
- 28
Hey bobby,
A few months back, I went to a party with my girlfriend and met this really cool guy, he owns several huge greenhouses, and grows a variety of veggies, so we started talking, and exchanged emails,
In one of the emails he said this,
Hey buddy! Sorry man it has taken me so long to get back with you, I have been crazy busy. We have not put the tanks in yet it will be this August or September when we get to that stage of our project. However I have talked to two professors (U of A & NMSU) who have both conducted similar case scenarious with the tanks buried and they both reported a contant 67 degrees regardless of outside temp. It looks promising so we will pursue this method and see what happens. I will keep you posted as to how it turns out and at what temps our tanks range from. I am gathering that even with an NFT system the temperature ranges only a few degrees when the solution is pulled from an underground tank versus the tanks that are at ground level. We are even looking into doing a similar setup for our floating bays as an attemp to control the temps in our ponds.
Keep in touch!
"
I don't think they ended up doing the work after all, and are putting it off until next year.
I asked why he didnt just run water chillers, and he said the cost was enormous, they had chillers but wanted to get away from using them,
He also mentioned that the tanks need to be burried, I believe three feet under the ground, but I will have to double check with him on that.
Great thread, very interesting.
A few months back, I went to a party with my girlfriend and met this really cool guy, he owns several huge greenhouses, and grows a variety of veggies, so we started talking, and exchanged emails,
In one of the emails he said this,
Hey buddy! Sorry man it has taken me so long to get back with you, I have been crazy busy. We have not put the tanks in yet it will be this August or September when we get to that stage of our project. However I have talked to two professors (U of A & NMSU) who have both conducted similar case scenarious with the tanks buried and they both reported a contant 67 degrees regardless of outside temp. It looks promising so we will pursue this method and see what happens. I will keep you posted as to how it turns out and at what temps our tanks range from. I am gathering that even with an NFT system the temperature ranges only a few degrees when the solution is pulled from an underground tank versus the tanks that are at ground level. We are even looking into doing a similar setup for our floating bays as an attemp to control the temps in our ponds.
Keep in touch!
"
I don't think they ended up doing the work after all, and are putting it off until next year.
I asked why he didnt just run water chillers, and he said the cost was enormous, they had chillers but wanted to get away from using them,
He also mentioned that the tanks need to be burried, I believe three feet under the ground, but I will have to double check with him on that.
Great thread, very interesting.
R
Rednick
Guest
Somebody work for HI???
That is contrary to everything I have EVER read about the company, especially the customer service part.
I guess you don't mind paying for shipping a defective, overpriced part back to them.
R
Rednick
Guest
"Topics:
Ground Source Heat Pump Design
Loop Systems, Open Systems
Soil/Rock Classification and Conductivity
Grouting Procedures
Commercial Ground Loop Heat Exchanger Software
Performance of Ground Source Heat Pumps in Housing Units "
Found some answers, but expensive ones.
$1,700 for the course and materials
or
$260 for just the materials
But these guys would have the answers in their books to knock out some numbers. I am going to see if I can't find these materials elsewhere used.
Ground Source Heat Pump Design
Loop Systems, Open Systems
Soil/Rock Classification and Conductivity
Grouting Procedures
Commercial Ground Loop Heat Exchanger Software
Performance of Ground Source Heat Pumps in Housing Units "
Found some answers, but expensive ones.
$1,700 for the course and materials
or
$260 for just the materials
But these guys would have the answers in their books to knock out some numbers. I am going to see if I can't find these materials elsewhere used.
R
Rednick
Guest
"Soil Properties
A thermal conductivity test was conducted by Major Geothermal in December 2009. The results of the 300-foot borehole thermal conductivity test produced a thermal conductivity (TC) of 0.65 BTU/(hr∙ft∙°F) (1.12 W/(mK)) with an average ground temperature of 57.5°F. While the TC of the ground at the site location is rather low, the GHP design team at NREL wanted to demonstrate the versatility of the technology and demonstrate the operation of a system in less-than-ideal conditions. While the TC test is useful in determining the average TC for a given length of borehole, it also helps test drilling conditions for the area and indicates the level of effort needed to install ground loops. However, the test does not give reliable insight into the layers of rock, soil, or minerals, nor does it effectively characterize soil moisture. Understanding the true subsurface conditions can help NREL specify the grout properly, determine the zones of high heat transfer, and gain knowledge on the long-term performance of the system based on the soil characterization."
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy10osti/48283.pdf
A thermal conductivity test was conducted by Major Geothermal in December 2009. The results of the 300-foot borehole thermal conductivity test produced a thermal conductivity (TC) of 0.65 BTU/(hr∙ft∙°F) (1.12 W/(mK)) with an average ground temperature of 57.5°F. While the TC of the ground at the site location is rather low, the GHP design team at NREL wanted to demonstrate the versatility of the technology and demonstrate the operation of a system in less-than-ideal conditions. While the TC test is useful in determining the average TC for a given length of borehole, it also helps test drilling conditions for the area and indicates the level of effort needed to install ground loops. However, the test does not give reliable insight into the layers of rock, soil, or minerals, nor does it effectively characterize soil moisture. Understanding the true subsurface conditions can help NREL specify the grout properly, determine the zones of high heat transfer, and gain knowledge on the long-term performance of the system based on the soil characterization."
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy10osti/48283.pdf
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