aqua flakes ph drift, please shar eyour knowledge

[CannaColorado]

So last night i changed my 38 gallon rez and added 8 ml per gallon of Aqua flakes A waited 20 min then added 8ml per gallon of B and let sit for about 45 minutes. At this point the rez's PH was 3.8 so I added about four capfuls or protekt silicone solution to get the PH to 5.7. Then i let sit for about 30 more minutes to make sure it was stable and then added the additives:

15 ml drip clean
38 ml Algen extract
19 ml roots excel
114 ml Multi Zen


So my ph this morning, approximatley 10 hours later is 6.5 and the ppms are at 560 and wheni mixed them they were about 610. I am going to top off with nutrients, but from what most people have told me my PH should have been 5.7 when i woke up after all the adddtives balanced out.

Can anyone share some experience on why my PH is so high this morning. Also water temps are 68 and i got the eco 110l for 18 buckets

 

[green bastard]

did you let you water sit over noght with a bubbler before you done any of the above?

 

[hailo]

So last night i changed my 38 gallon rez and added 8 ml per gallon of Aqua flakes A waited 20 min then added 8ml per gallon of B and let sit for about 45 minutes. At this point the rez's PH was 3.8 so I added about four capfuls or protekt silicone solution to get the PH to 5.7. Then i let sit for about 30 more minutes to make sure it was stable and then added the additives:

15 ml drip clean
38 ml Algen extract
19 ml roots excel
114 ml Multi Zen


So my ph this morning, approximatley 10 hours later is 6.5 and the ppms are at 560 and wheni mixed them they were about 610. I am going to top off with nutrients, but from what most people have told me my PH should have been 5.7 when i woke up after all the adddtives balanced out.

Can anyone share some experience on why my PH is so high this morning. Also water temps are 68 and i got the eco 110l for 18 buckets

Is this after the plants drank it or just sitting overnight?

 

[SCC]

Are you using R/O water, R/O water has no buffers in it, and it can swing all over the place, also i normally find that potassium silicate will continue to raise the ph after adding it, normally if i add potassium silicate i go with less and wait for it to rise before adjusting. Just my 2cents, hope it helps!

 

[CannaColorado]

Is this after the plants drank it or just sitting overnight?

after the plants drank about 40 ppm

did you let you water sit over noght with a bubbler before you done any of the above?

yes, for about 30 gallons the other 8 were straight out the R/O but its got a big ol carbon filter

Are you using R/O water, R/O water has no buffers in it, and it can swing all over the place, also i normally find that potassium silicate will continue to raise the ph after adding it, normally if i add potassium silicate i go with less and wait for it to rise before adjusting. Just my 2cents, hope it helps!

this helps alot, have you found an approximate time frame where you feel comfortable that the PH has leveled off? I have a feeling that this is what happened cause It takes about 15 min for the nutrient PPMs to level off so i could see the Potassium silicate not haveing fully buffered when I mixed considering i Ph'ed the water and let er sit for about 30 min and the Ph went down to 5.7 as it mixed through the buckets and then held steady for about 20 mins or so.... Guessing thats not enough time?



Oh and yes i am using R/O

 

[SCC]

Is there a reason why you don't use regular ph up? Try adjusting with regular ph up(potassium hydroxide) and see what happens. One thing you have to realize with R/O water is it will swing which ever way is stronger, if you have more alkaline in there it will swing that way. R/O is one of those things you have to constantly watch. Some times i'll get a de-chlorinizer and use 60% R/O and 40% dechlorinated water so that i got some buffer in there and i don't have to deal with the big swings.

 

[Green Escape]

i dealt with the big swings at first and one of the main things i noticed was that when my ppm's were to high my ph would go up if its to low my ph would go down. im running r/o water and now that i keep my ppm's where my plants like it my ph stays pretty damn consistent. hope this helps a lil bit

 

[CannaColorado]

Is there a reason why you don't use regular ph up? Try adjusting with regular ph up(potassium hydroxide) and see what happens. One thing you have to realize with R/O water is it will swing which ever way is stronger, if you have more alkaline in there it will swing that way. R/O is one of those things you have to constantly watch. Some times i'll get a de-chlorinizer and use 60% R/O and 40% dechlorinated water so that i got some buffer in there and i don't have to deal with the big swings.

do you do this with aqua flakes? I might give it a try next rez change, and i use the pro tekt for the silicone.... is there a reason not to use it over regluar PH up?

i dealt with the big swings at first and one of the main things i noticed was that when my ppm's were to high my ph would go up if its to low my ph would go down. im running r/o water and now that i keep my ppm's where my plants like it my ph stays pretty damn consistent. hope this helps a lil bit

is this with aqua flakes or another nutrients?

 

[Boylobster]

If it helps, I'm in the middle of my first run with Aqua Flakes and 100% RO. I haven't refreshed the solution at all, and until very recently, my pH has been on like Donkey Kong. The stability was one of the things that pleased me most about the system, initially.

For quite some time the regimen was Aqua Flakes A + B, MultiZyme, 2mL/gal CalMag, and 2mL/gal Hammerhead. pH was adjusted with General Hydro's pH Up and pH Down, as needed. EC ran about .6, or ~600ppm. Until recently, the pH seemed to drift up as the plants fed, as you describe. I countered this by simply letting the nutes in the top-off reservoir have a pH that was too low, and it would tug the pH back up as it drained into the system. Here's hoping you reach some satisfactory conclusions! ;)

 

[hailo]

I see you said you use RO water but no mention of calmag in your nutes. Some of the buffering comes from that...

Also if you dont have one already a recirculating pump works wonders....

The reason I asked if it was after a drink is because its normal for that to happen. They take acidic nutes out of the water which makes the rez more alkali.

Now thats out of the way....I read this post earlier in the day and lucky for you i was doing a rez change. I decided to checked PH as you did and i ended up with 4.5 and 1000PPM after AF A+B

I didnt adjust PH.....I then added my additives and topped of the rez to the fill mark.

I let it sit for 5 mins and checked it:
PH 5.8
PPM 1000PPM
(no PH up or down)

Hope this helps....

 

[Boylobster]

Aren't the House & Garden additives supposed to play tricks with pH for a little while after they're added? I believe I've seen H&G recommend adding Aqua Flakes, pH balancing, and *then* adding their line of additives for that reason. :thinking

 

[CannaColorado]

Aren't the House & Garden additives supposed to play tricks with pH for a little while after they're added? I believe I've seen H&G recommend adding Aqua Flakes, pH balancing, and *then* adding their line of additives for that reason. :thinking

yup, the first batch i fuxed up and ph'ed it after adding the additive and i couldn't get it to stay below 6 so my leaves are doing the twist hahahaha.... but this time i did it properly as H&G describes and from what i can tell it was the potassium sillicate i used as ph up, i got over ambitious and didn't realize you needed to let it buffer for a couple hours. Fixed the ph with a little down from GH and we are now holding steady at 5.7 550ppm or 1.1EC which is where i want them for today, ill bump them to 1.2EC once the twist goes away from the ph issue.

also the additive made the ph go up to like 7.3, now that i think of it though alot of the later drift i saw was probably what SCC was refering to

 

[CannaColorado]

I see you said you use RO water but no mention of calmag in your nutes. Some of the buffering comes from that...

Also if you dont have one already a recirculating pump works wonders....

The reason I asked if it was after a drink is because its normal for that to happen. They take acidic nutes out of the water which makes the rez more alkali.

Now thats out of the way....I read this post earlier in the day and lucky for you i was doing a rez change. I decided to checked PH as you did and i ended up with 4.5 and 1000PPM after AF A+B

I didnt adjust PH.....I then added my additives and topped of the rez to the fill mark.

I let it sit for 5 mins and checked it:
PH 5.8
PPM 1000PPM
(no PH up or down)

Hope this helps....

i would be curious to know what your ph is now after the additives balanced out over the day

 

[SCC]

do you do this with aqua flakes? I might give it a try next rez change, and i use the pro tekt for the silicone.... is there a reason not to use it over regluar PH up?



is this with aqua flakes or another nutrients?

I have same results with aqua flakes and also canna aqua flores, stuff is almost identical. The reason i suggest the regular ph up is that it doesn't keep creeping up like the sillicate will, if you add sillicate to regular plain water and adjust the ph to what you want, give it a few hours or overnight and i can pretty much bet it will be way higher.

Don't get me wrong i have nothing against sillicate, but you have to develope some experience with it, and almost adjust the ph to lower and compensate for it to creep up to where you want it. I just find it easier to mix 30%-40% of dechlorinized water to your r/o mixture and it saves some headaches of ph gemlins.

 

[Boylobster]

I just find it easier to mix 30%-40% of dechlorinized water to your r/o mixture and it saves some headaches of ph gemlins.

Not disagreeing with you at all, but there may be something to be said about the composition of the tap water that varies by location. I used to mix 50/50 RO and chlorine-free tap water, and I was shocked by how stable my pH was when I switched to just RO. That may be due to the properties of the tap agua I was using, but it could also be that I sucked a lot more the last time I ran hydro. :itwasntme

 

[Loudblunts]

to the OP (original poster).... K.I.S.S aka keep it simple stupid...

or keep it stupid simple....


Aqua Flakes are godsend....i love these fucking nutes and dont see myself changing for a whileeee unless they start fucking up.

with that said....

why are you using a silicone additive to adjust your pH? are you being a nelly over the tiny bit of PPM that regular pH up is adding or something?

IF so, GET OVER IT

:D

IF not.... ill share a trick i've discovered along the way of growing. I used to do this when i was growing with gh3 as well.

You use RO and the same nutes as me, so it should work well...only varying factor may be your RO unit. I use a Hydrologic.

however....what i do is (mind you i do my res changes on sunday cuz of a new week...but for this step, i mix up the sat night before hand) pour a in first, let it cycle through my system... then pour in b and then i just let my system circulate over night, when i come the next morning its magically sitting around 5.7-5.8 no fucking bullshit...lol (yes with the plants still sitting in the system....and yes the pH was around 3.4 or so when i put in my base nutes a & b)

i had to do this last crop cuz my grochek combo bit the fucking dust and it was the gay ass tds probe that you cant replace....sooo it was throwing off my pH cuz the temperature couldnt compensate... but long story short...it works yo

also i see folks talking about other shit in the thread... to the OP, i advise you to stay away from that. IF you are gonna go H&G, go H&G all the way. Other company's additives arent as friendly...which may also be a reason for pH and EC fluctuation. As i attest that my pH is sooo stable that once its equalized or reached equilibrium... there is no checking it until the next res change cuz its that stable. So if you grow H & G, stay with only H & G and their additives. It will save yer ass from ghost hunting in the machine :D

also, for the record, stay away from cal/mag unless your plant is specifically SCREAMING at you to give her some... Reason being is most nutrient brands are manufactured and feed charts ARE based off of RO water...mostly 000-001ppm source...

with that said, House & Garden has put 11-12% of cal/mag in the "a" bottle of all its nutrients...so there is PLENTY of it in there, REGARDLESS if you are using RO water.

http://i237.invalid.com/albums/ff285/420630/7f27026c.jpg

http://i237.invalid.com/albums/ff285/420630/1141805a.jpg

 

[Boylobster]

Hard to argue with colas like that! However, I would point out that there is another big varying factor between your grow and Colorado's: genetics. I'm really not trying to start an argument, but I had really high expectations for running the H&G line as recommended, as I'd seen a number of other growers document their success with that system. To my disappointment, however, Aqua Flakes A&B clearly did *not* have everything that my plants needed while running in RO. My point is only that even when you think you may have accounted for all the differing elements between your grow and another you've seen, it sometimes proves to be very difficult. What works for some is not necessarily a guarantee for all, no? :)

Again, no offense intended - this is only my first run with H&G, and you certainly look and sound as though you know what the f$$k you're doing. Since I'm one of the culprits you referred to, I'll take your advice and stick to H&G additives for the next run, just to see. ;)

 

[Loudblunts]

no arguments necessary brother especially not from me... we are all hear to farm and grow weed right?

:D

with that said... i dont think Genetics have anything to do with it...bare with me...hear me out

i kinda always laugh at my cali socal boys... they be swearing certain stuff needs a special recipe...while i agree different plants grok different ratios.... the rest is total bullshit. I compared the strain/cut they gave me that "needed special feeding ratios and all other bullshit crap"... we compared and needless to say... they dropped their theory about special formulas and stopped drinking that koolaid.


However, like said above, if you are referencing how different strains may want more of something, i agree with you. I cant pinpoint as to what you are specifically talking about because from your words... "Aqua Flakes A & B clearly did *not* have everything that my plants needed while running in RO" is too vague... but you mentioned RO water...that sparks or brings to mind or makes me think you are referencing cal/mag, no?

If this is the case... hear me out, bare with me some more...

Most folks tend to misdiagnose cal/mag and when they do have it, they also mistreat it...and then expect for it to be fixed.

if cal/mag rust damage is apparent/there on leaf...then there is no fixing it as it is cellular/structural damage. However new growth from there on out will be fixed. When that "rust" spot on the former/older leaf is not fixed, the grower tries to increase dosage of cal/mag further compounding the problem and making your situation even more complexed. This is the starting of the problem in my humble opinion... not saying this is your situation just saying in general.

then you have situation numero dos....where folks arent actually feeding the plant enough of the House & Garden nutes. Thus they will see minor def. in their plant.
This can be fixed by feeding either the proper dosage from h**p://www.house-garden.us/PrinterFriendly/index.html with normal....or you can increase the dosage by usage aggressive...or kind of freestyle with the mL if you know what you doing... dig?
Once you increase the base a & b, things will be fine.

situation numero tres if im growing multiple plants and i only see one or 2 plants have a def, i will foilar feed.... hell even if all of them have a def and its minor and i dont want to change the res...ill foliar feed. I really didnt like any types of foliar feeding cuz i didnt think the messyness outweighted the pro's....that was until i tried magic green...that shit is like leaf crack.

situation numero cuatro .... the strict feeding of normal and/or aggressive doesnt work, nor does my freestyling of adding a little more work either, nor the foliar feeding.... Well this is why i said in previous post

...........

also, for the record, stay away from cal/mag unless your plant is specifically SCREAMING at you to give her some... Reason being is most nutrient brands are manufactured and feed charts ARE based off of RO water...mostly 000-001ppm source...

with that said, House & Garden has put 11-12% of cal/mag in the "a" bottle of all its nutrients...so there is PLENTY of it in there, REGARDLESS if you are using RO water.

.......

the part i bolded was what i was referencing, if she is lacking in calmag and you've tried all those ideas...then by all means, of course, give her cal/mag....just dont expect to fix already 'rusted' leaves

hope this helps brother... and i didnt take your opinion as an argument...imma laid back type of dude...just wanna grow pot and pay it forward. :D

 

[hailo]

i would be curious to know what your ph is now after the additives balanced out over the day

@ CannaCO

PH is fine...i checked it 2 hrs after i made it....still 5.8

they drink the ph went up....they took nutes out of the water....

 

[Boylobster]

Word, blunts. Everything you've said seems like sound advice. This is a topic that interests me greatly, having just switched to 100% RO, the H&G line, and the Under Current recirculating system. The whole mess is documented in my "Monolith" thread. If you like, please check it out; I'd be happy to hear your thoughts over there!

I cant pinpoint as to what you are specifically talking about because from your words... "Aqua Flakes A & B clearly did *not* have everything that my plants needed while running in RO" is too vague... but you mentioned RO water...that sparks or brings to mind or makes me think you are referencing cal/mag, no?

Yeah, after seeing a number of people report similar issues with straight RO and different 2-part nute formulas (including Aqua Flakes), I decided to give CalMag a try. There seemed to be quite a few people that felt it solved their micro problem.

then you have situation numero dos....where folks arent actually feeding the plant enough of the House & Garden nutes. Thus they will see minor def. in their plant.

I considered this, and upping the nute strength is certainly what H&G recommended. However, it seems that most people advise against running nutes at full strength in RDWC. I didn't entirely trust H&G's suggestion that I just dump a lot more of their product into solution for obvious reasons. :D However, I'm not at all opposed to the idea, I'm just normally very wary of over-feeding. I will certainly play with this in the future, however. :)

situation numero tres if im growing multiple plants and i only see one or 2 plants have a def, i will foilar feed.... hell even if all of them have a def and its minor and i dont want to change the res...ill foliar feed. I really didnt like any types of foliar feeding cuz i didnt think the messyness outweighted the pro's....that was until i tried magic green...that shit is like leaf crack.

No foliar feeding in my situation - the problem was totally systemic, shared pretty much equally between all plants. Rusting and deformed leaves were the most obvious symptoms, as you said. I've never like the idea of having to foliar feed either, but I'm curious what you love so much about the Magic Green. In what circumstances do you bust that at, and what do you see it doin' for ya'? .... ....hm. Perhaps we ought to give Colorado his thread back. :D Feel free to drop by mine, too; I'd be curious to see what you think.