Asking For Help Identifying Problem. Possible Deficiency Or Root Problem.

[MelonFarmer]

1. Four plants grown from various bag seeds
2. Plants are around 2.5 months old
3. Tallest is 25cm but they have been topped and tied down.
4. 25 liter DWC tub. Whisper 300 air pump with two 30.5cm air stones.
5. AN PH perfect 3-part, Orca liquid mycorrhiza, General Hydroponics cal/mag.
6. Solution PH 5.5-6.5
7. Tap water ppm 25
8. Nutrient solution 597
9. Res temp 15-19 degrees C
10. Ppm normally rises by 5-10 a day for the first few days after a res change then levels out and eventually drops by 5-10 daily as the next change gets closer. Usually changed every two weeks.
11. PH always rises to at least 7 everyday. Sometimes as high as 7.5. It would rise to 8 sometimes during the first few weeks but seems more stable now as plants get older/nutrients get stronger. Adjusting with citric acid PH solution.
12. No foliar feeding
13. One 130watt flurescent bulb 6400k, one 45watt blue/red LED panel.
14. Fluro is 10cm from closest plant. LED is 30cm from closest plant.
15. Space is 100cmX100cm or 9 square feet.
16. Temperature is 14-21C. Relative humidity 45%-65%
17. I saw some gnats while sprouting veggies in potting mix before setting up the DWC. Since then only the occasional moth or mosquito.
18. Beginner level. I have done one outdoor grow in soil. Never done hydro or used bottled nutes before.

I have a grow journal going with some additional info here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ndoor-the-start-of-something-wonderful.95582/

The problem started with dark splotches and yellowing near the tip, but did not start on the tip like I think nute burn would. Then the leaves when crispy and tacoed. I've snipped them off now but I think I have some old pictures if you need to see them. I thought it was cal, mag or P so I upped nutes and added some cal/mag for the first time. I changed the res out and snipped the worst leaves the next day. After I snipped them one plant started drooping, see pictures, and the others started to turn more lime green. Its been 5 days since I changed the res. Some stems are tinged purple, I thought might be cold nights or P deficiency. The symptoms showed up on all plants about the same time. Also the roots look darker than normal, they always had a small amount of brown algae or slime but the root ball was more creamy white. Now they look much more slimey and some parts are very dark, almost black. No funky smell.

I will attach some pictures.

I really appreciate the time you guys and girls put into helping beginners like me.

Thanks.
Peace.

 

[Smerb]

Whats your temperature when the lights are out?

 

[DGP]

It looks like you definitely have some kind of biofilm on those roots. Are your water temps really never going above the range you quoted? I know many folks like to use live bennies in their water but I have had little luck with them even in RDWC with really good water movement and oxygenation. My water stays the cleanest when I use just Jack's hydro pro, calcium nitrate and epsom, maybe a little calmag when needed. I keep the water at 65 and no higher than 67 and occasionally use some food grade H202 and the water is always fresh, smells great and the ph is quite stable. I tried using Photo Plus bennies (good bacteria and fungus) and my water just turned green and got all weird.

I also change my water about every 10 days and when I was doing single bucket DWC I changed it every week. The water just tends to get kinda messed up in single bucket DWC when it is just sitting there without much circulation other than an airstone.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

Whats your temperature when the lights are out?

My thermometer/hygrometer records 24 hour min/max. So I assume night temps are 14-16C.

I check water temp with my ph pen so no min/max. Usually a few hours after lights come on so it could very well be getting warmer. I'll check it tomorrow morning before lights when the lights have been on for 16 hours or so.

DGP you have recommended h2o2 to me a couple of times and I think it might be time to start listening lol. I resisted because I had already spent the money on Orca. I'll pick some up asap.
My water always looks and smells clean, although since the latest res change its more cloudy, probably from micro nutes and cal/mag colour.

 

[MelonFarmer]

It looks like you definitely have some kind of biofilm on those roots. Are your water temps really never going above the range you quoted? I know many folks like to use live bennies in their water but I have had little luck with them even in RDWC with really good water movement and oxygenation. My water stays the cleanest when I use just Jack's hydro pro, calcium nitrate and epsom, maybe a little calmag when needed. I keep the water at 65 and no higher than 67 and occasionally use some food grade H202 and the water is always fresh, smells great and the ph is quite stable. I tried using Photo Plus bennies (good bacteria and fungus) and my water just turned green and got all weird.

I also change my water about every 10 days and when I was doing single bucket DWC I changed it every week. The water just tends to get kinda messed up in single bucket DWC when it is just sitting there without much circulation other than an airstone.

Dee

You said not to use 3% H2O2 because of the stabilizers but thats all I could get on such short notice. Would that be ok as a temporary solution? If so, can I just add it straight to the reservoir or will I have to pour it over the pebbles or soak the pots?

Cheers

 

[Enforcer]

1. Four plants grown from various bag seeds
2. Plants are around 2.5 months old
3. Tallest is 25cm but they have been topped and tied down.
4. 25 liter DWC tub. Whisper 300 air pump with two 30.5cm air stones.
5. AN PH perfect 3-part, Orca liquid mycorrhiza, General Hydroponics cal/mag.
6. Solution PH 5.5-6.5
7. Tap water ppm 25
8. Nutrient solution 597
9. Res temp 15-19 degrees C
10. Ppm normally rises by 5-10 a day for the first few days after a res change then levels out and eventually drops by 5-10 daily as the next change gets closer. Usually changed every two weeks.
11. PH always rises to at least 7 everyday. Sometimes as high as 7.5. It would rise to 8 sometimes during the first few weeks but seems more stable now as plants get older/nutrients get stronger. Adjusting with citric acid PH solution.
12. No foliar feeding
13. One 130watt flurescent bulb 6400k, one 45watt blue/red LED panel.
14. Fluro is 10cm from closest plant. LED is 30cm from closest plant.
15. Space is 100cmX100cm or 9 square feet.
16. Temperature is 14-21C. Relative humidity 45%-65%
17. I saw some gnats while sprouting veggies in potting mix before setting up the DWC. Since then only the occasional moth or mosquito.
18. Beginner level. I have done one outdoor grow in soil. Never done hydro or used bottled nutes before.

I have a grow journal going with some additional info here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ndoor-the-start-of-something-wonderful.95582/

The problem started with dark splotches and yellowing near the tip, but did not start on the tip like I think nute burn would. Then the leaves when crispy and tacoed. I've snipped them off now but I think I have some old pictures if you need to see them. I thought it was cal, mag or P so I upped nutes and added some cal/mag for the first time. I changed the res out and snipped the worst leaves the next day. After I snipped them one plant started drooping, see pictures, and the others started to turn more lime green. Its been 5 days since I changed the res. Some stems are tinged purple, I thought might be cold nights or P deficiency. The symptoms showed up on all plants about the same time. Also the roots look darker than normal, they always had a small amount of brown algae or slime but the root ball was more creamy white. Now they look much more slimey and some parts are very dark, almost black. No funky smell.

I will attach some pictures.

I really appreciate the time you guys and girls put into helping beginners like me.

Thanks.
Peace.

I don’t grow DWC so I’m not going to speculate on what might be going on there. However, I have used AN PH perfect nutes before and was having similar issues on the leaf. I’ll pass on to you what was told to me, and worked. Do not PH correct your solution. The chelates and surfactants in PH perfect nutes are designed to feed the plant in a PH range of about 4-8. If you’re solution is anywhere in that range...you’re good. I encourage you to call the number on the bottle to confirm what I’m telling you. I stopped corrected the PH of my solution and the leaf issues cleared up.

 

[MelonFarmer]

I don’t grow DWC so I’m not going to speculate on what might be going on there. However, I have used AN PH perfect nutes before and was having similar issues on the leaf. I’ll pass on to you what was told to me, and worked. Do not PH correct your solution. The chelates and surfactants in PH perfect nutes are designed to feed the plant in a PH range of about 4-8. If you’re solution is anywhere in that range...you’re good. I encourage you to call the number on the bottle to confirm what I’m telling you. I stopped corrected the PH of my solution and the leaf issues cleared up.

That is totally new information to me. I'll check it out.

Thanks

 

[DGP]

I dont really know if 3% non-food grade is ok but don't pour it over the media but mix it with water (diluted) in a gallon milk jug or similar and then add it to the bucket water slowly.

I have no experience with AN nutes. I hate all the liquid nutes and don't use them ever. I think liquid nutes for the cannabis market are just marketing hype. Anyway, My only experience is making my own from dry chemicals and just a little with GH nutes in the past.

Change your water, redo your nutes and all before you ad the H202. Yu can't use bennies (live bacteria etc.) for 3 days once you use the H202 otherwise youll kill the bennies. I rarely use H202 but when I do it has worked.....be aware there are people who have had good luck with Hydroguard and similar so I am not saying you should go with H202 but just that I have seen it work.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

I dont really know if 3% non-food grade is ok but don't pour it over the media but mix it with water (diluted) in a gallon milk jug or similar and then add it to the bucket water slowly.

I have no experience with AN nutes. I hate all the liquid nutes and don't use them ever. I think liquid nutes for the cannabis market are just marketing hype. Anyway, My only experience is making my own from dry chemicals and just a little with GH nutes in the past.

Change your water, redo your nutes and all before you ad the H202. Yu can't use bennies (live bacteria etc.) for 3 days once you use the H202 otherwise youll kill the bennies. I rarely use H202 but when I do it has worked.....be aware there are people who have had good luck with Hydroguard and similar so I am not saying you should go with H202 but just that I have seen it work.

Dee

So I have to mix a new batch of nutes? Can I just pour off a couple of liters, add the h2o2 to that and add that back in?
I don't mind about the bennies dying, I can add them back later if I want to, for now I just want to get the plants happy again.

 

[DGP]

I just think it would be best to start fresh with new water since you said it was cloudy. Also if there is a bacteria outbreak clean water will reduce the bacteria levels and allow the H2O2 to work on the slime on the roots.

Another comment not related to your original question:

I think your lights are too weak for flower and the plants look kinda small for 2.5 months. I only veg for 4 - 5 weeks and see plants that are 24" or taller and up to 30" diameter. Maybe strain related but your plants seem underdeveloped (not criticizing but just observing).

Are you able to swing upgrading your lights and what is available to you (I am assuming your not in the US)? Even some T5 high output (HO) or a simple HPS hood would be an upgrade. I prefer COBS or Quantum boards but they cost more.

I would flip them soon and just get through the grow if you can find a lighting situation that is better. Gain the experience and execute on a new cycle and apply things you have learned to your next cycle.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

I just think it would be best to start fresh with new water since you said it was cloudy. Also if there is a bacteria outbreak clean water will reduce the bacteria levels and allow the H2O2 to work on the slime on the roots.

Another comment not related to your original question:

I think your lights are too weak for flower and the plants look kinda small for 2.5 months. I only veg for 4 - 5 weeks and see plants that are 24" or taller and up to 30" diameter. Maybe strain related but your plants seem underdeveloped (not criticizing but just observing).

Are you able to swing upgrading your lights and what is available to you (I am assuming your not in the US)? Even some T5 high output (HO) or a simple HPS hood would be an upgrade. I prefer COBS or Quantum boards but they cost more.

I would flip them soon and just get through the grow if you can find a lighting situation that is better. Gain the experience and execute on a new cycle and apply things you have learned to your next cycle.

Dee

The water is cloudy but the cal mag and the micro nutes are both dark in colour. But fresh can't hurt huh.

I would like to upgrade to LEDs but I am thinking the heat from an HPS would actually be beneficial for me in winter. And in summer I will be growing outdoors instead. I'll start researching options.

I have one local hydro shop near me I can look at for lights but its weird because growing cannabis here is illegal. It makes it hard to have an productive conversation about it. Luckily penalties are pretty relaxed as long as you keep to one or two plants. My point is I'd rather order something online if it delivers to my corner of the world.

I will flip as soon as I think they are healthy enough, hopefully I'll have new lights by then lol.

Thanks

 

[MelonFarmer]

Btw I checked the temp of the res this morning about 2 hours before lights out and it was at 16.8. The highest I've ever seen it was 18.something so i thought it would be cold enough.

 

[MelonFarmer]

I've decided to wait until next run to get new lights. Too much money at this early stage of learning.

The plants are not quite right still but its getting close to 3 month veg with not much to show for it so its now or never.

Trying out weaker nutrients to help curling plants. Waiting to see results still. Roots look less slimy but are stained rusty red, possibly from nutes.

I cant find any food grade 30% or higher h2o2 anywhere and I can't afford a chiller so I am going to try limp through flower as best as I can then go back to dirt for the next run until I can upgrade my equipment.

The temp controller I bought is keeping them happier at least. 19.5C canopy temps and water doesn't rise above 17. Best I can do right now.

 

[MelonFarmer]

First pic is the small plant droopy plants leaves.
Second two are the big plants leaves.
Last pic is a family shot with the lights swapped out to 2400k.

I have a journal going here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...ndoor-the-start-of-something-wonderful.95582/

I will only post there after this so I'm not doubling up.

Thanks