Auto White Widow& Mango Kush Week 6 from seed leaf discoloration

[BowHunterSimon]

Hi folks,

After fending on my own for the past 2 1/2 months, reading up most of the days on cannabis cultivation I decided to sign up to this forum finally to ask for specific advice for my setup/plants.

I started out with 2 plants in April which never grew properly and I ended up with 1 bud each. So I purchased PH readers, PH adjusters and started a new crop.

I have a White Whidow and Mango Kush auto flowers. They are 6 weeks from sprout, planted in 3 gal felt pots. They started flowering about 2 1/2 weeks ago.

In the beginning when my PH meters arrived I checked and PH in Soil was pushing 8.0. I grow in 2 parts potting soil, 1 part perlite, 1 part organic.
I tried adjusting with ph down, flushing with 6.0 water without any difference in the soil, so I added aluminium sulfate when they were about
1 1/2 weeks old which brought down the soil PH to roughly 7.0.

They were growing& looking great until about week 5. I feed them 1/4, 1/2 strength of GeneralHydroponics Flora series.
Then now I am noticing leaf discoloration again... so I checked PH last night and it bumped back up to 8.0 in my soil over the course of 3 1/2 weeks... even tho all water I added was adjusted to 6.0-6.2ph.

So i flushed them again with aluminium sulfate, and watered/fed them right after with 1/2 strength nutes and ph 6.5.
Run off after all this was at 6.5 which would be perfect.

Now I am curious, my leafs are showing deficiency from high PH not being able to absorb the nutes present?

Why is my soil rising to 8.0 every couple weeks, it can't be the solution to flush with aluminium sulfate all the time... i don't want to use that stuff but have had no luck to permanently alter my soil to get a consistant ph reading other wise.

Plants are looking fine this morning after last night's torture for them. Buds are growing nicely, no stunted or slowed down growth that I am noticing, besides the leaf discoloration. The brown spots on leafs, might have been me pouring nute water on them accidentally, but the yellowing, red spots I am not sure what to do?

First pictures is my untrained white widow, last 3 pictures is my mango kush that has been topped, and lst.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

White widow first 2 pics again, you can lightly see red spots and discoloration on leafs.

3rd pic mango kush, you can see yellowing.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

This is how they are looking today... are they underfed?

 

[chemistry]

What PPM's are you feeding, auto's don't like a lot of feeding.

 

[Jimster]

They don't look too bad but they could be suffering from lockout deficiencies. What kind of potting soil and what type of "organic" did you use? A Ph of above 7 is not too common unless there is a lot of buffering or calcium products in the soil. Cal-Mag, in excess, can also raise your Ph. Sometimes the makers of the soil add this stuff to keep things in range since organic stuff can be a little acidic at times... and added too much? Most nutrients are acidic, so I wouldn't think the nutrients are causing issues. Look for stuff like calcium carbonate in the ingredients list, which is often used to buffer soils.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

I am feeding at 900-950ppm, but every watering. The chart says 1100-1200 but I am keeping it down due to them being auto flowers.

I am running 2 parts Altwin potting soil, 1 part perlite and 1/2 part golfgreen worm castings & 1/2 part miracle gro sea organic.
(I am not really liking the mix as it stays moist quite long. So I made a new mix for my future plants; 3 parts promix hp peat, 1 part perlite, 1 organic, 2 tablesp. Garden lime.)

The mix I am growing in now (potting, perlite, organic) has always been above 7ph. But this is the 2nd time this grow has spiked to 8ph...

Yesterday and today it has been reading 7ph in soil again, after the flush with alum. Sulfate and light feed with ph 6.5 water 2 days ago.

I am curious, as for the past 2-3 weeks i watered them a bit different (light watering with no run off), so i am wondering if it might have had salt build up from nutes every watering but no run off, spiking the ph to 8.0?

Now that i flushed they almost look hungry, before they started spotting the leafs, maybe nute lockout, salt buildup and too much nutes which has caused this?

 

[BowHunterSimon]

Also, this is my 3rd plant Mango Kush, smells delicious but looks very strange... is this even going to be smokable

 

[Jimster]

I am feeding at 900-950ppm, but every watering. The chart says 1100-1200 but I am keeping it down due to them being auto flowers.
I am curious, as for the past 2-3 weeks i watered them a bit different (light watering with no run off), so i am wondering if it might have had salt build up from nutes every watering but no run off, spiking the ph to 8.0?

Now that i flushed they almost look hungry, before they started spotting the leafs, maybe nute lockout, salt buildup and too much nutes which has caused this?

I have grown in Promix for over 30 years and have had great success. My mix is pretty simple... 80% Promix HP or BX (either works pretty well) and 20% compost/manure mix (about $4/30 lb bag at Walmart or Loews), a handfull of wood ashes, and a tablespoon or two of time release Osmokote pellets. I wouldn't use the added lime as Promix is already buffered and the extra lime might raise the Ph after a while. The wood ashes provide micro and some macro nutrients, and the compost/manure mix provides the remainder. The Osmokote pellets keep a low level feeding at a near constant level, as I only feed about every 2-3 weeks. It sounds like it wouldn't work, but it works like crazy and doesn't suffer from nute issues or Ph drifting.
Your current watering schedule shouldn't cause a spike in the outflow to be alkaline... usually salt buildup is slightly acidic. I water to about 15% runoff, which keeps salt buildup to a minimum, although I think there is a difference in water requirements and reactions when you are using Potting Soils. I can't see a reason why your Ph would keep rising, though. Ph meters can be pretty finicky, with most growers opting for a slurry test, which is just a soil sample mixed with a solution... the color change determines your Ph accurately. Are you sure that there was no added lime/carbonate/dolomite added to the mix when it was made? Lime, or even bone meal or egg shells take a while to exert their Ph changing abilities, so it often creeps upward during the grow as it breaks down. If your water is OK, Ph wise, then it's a puzzle. Most nute interactions tend to lower the Ph, unless you had a ton of phosphorus and calcium in the soil, which will turn to the mineral Apatite (Calcium Phosphate), which can work sort of like a carbonate in terms of Ph changing ability. This will often cause deficiency symptoms as well, since the phosphorus and calcium get locked together and unavailable to the plant.
This is why I like to keep things simple, if possible. One little mistake can blossom into a hydra that can't be slain. Good luck and keep up the good fight. I think you will like the Promix, but skip the lime as it is already in there.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

I have grown in Promix for over 30 years and have had great success. My mix is pretty simple... 80% Promix HP or BX (either works pretty well) and 20% compost/manure mix (about $4/30 lb bag at Walmart or Loews), a handfull of wood ashes, and a tablespoon or two of time release Osmokote pellets. I wouldn't use the added lime as Promix is already buffered and the extra lime might raise the Ph after a while. The wood ashes provide micro and some macro nutrients, and the compost/manure mix provides the remainder. The Osmokote pellets keep a low level feeding at a near constant level, as I only feed about every 2-3 weeks. It sounds like it wouldn't work, but it works like crazy and doesn't suffer from nute issues or Ph drifting.
Your current watering schedule shouldn't cause a spike in the outflow to be alkaline... usually salt buildup is slightly acidic. I water to about 15% runoff, which keeps salt buildup to a minimum, although I think there is a difference in water requirements and reactions when you are using Potting Soils. I can't see a reason why your Ph would keep rising, though. Ph meters can be pretty finicky, with most growers opting for a slurry test, which is just a soil sample mixed with a solution... the color change determines your Ph accurately. Are you sure that there was no added lime/carbonate/dolomite added to the mix when it was made? Lime, or even bone meal or egg shells take a while to exert their Ph changing abilities, so it often creeps upward during the grow as it breaks down. If your water is OK, Ph wise, then it's a puzzle. Most nute interactions tend to lower the Ph, unless you had a ton of phosphorus and calcium in the soil, which will turn to the mineral Apatite (Calcium Phosphate), which can work sort of like a carbonate in terms of Ph changing ability. This will often cause deficiency symptoms as well, since the phosphorus and calcium get locked together and unavailable to the plant.
This is why I like to keep things simple, if possible. One little mistake can blossom into a hydra that can't be slain. Good luck and keep up the good fight. I think you will like the Promix, but skip the lime as it is already in there.

Very nice thank you!

I started a purple haze & black widow photo in the promix, they are 3 weeks old and I'm planning on taking clones from them, so far the promix seems nice and looking forward working with it.

I am stunned myself about the rising of the PH, the soils I use should be adjusted. I have read many times where people had 8.0+ph that they should add extra lime before planting to keep a constant ph of ~7.0, it gets rid of PH spikes.

I have tried the slurry method which revealed 7.6 before flush, soil meter ph showed 8.0 and normal run off was 7.2... this was tested with 3 different meters.

I do use my tap water (shallow well), calcium is at 16 whatever its measured in, ppm 230ish, ph 7.1 but i ph it down to 6.2-6.5 once i added nutes to it, never lowered the PH tho in the soil over course of few weeks, it just kept on rising. Maybe calcium issue?

I posted this thread in a Canadian grower forum, and someone thinks my plants are underfed.... how? They are autos, and i literally added nutes EVERY watering... i think they got overfed, high ph in soil, and locked out...? What do i know.

They do look more yellow today after i dropped the ph with alum. Sulfate and light feeding after. Been 2 days since. So maybe now they are underfed?

In the current promix (black widow&purple haze) i did add 2 tablespoons lime per galon of soil, and it seems like their substrate is holding 7.0ph for the past 3 weeks and looking healthy.

I don't think i will grow in potting soil anymore, just alone how long it stays moist I don't like.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

This is the stuff I am growing in right now, living in Canada your options are limited. I looked into foxfarm and oceanforest but a small bag was $70CAD shipped, at that point I might as well get a hydro setup haha.

So this is the stuff I grow my 6 week olds, white widow & mango kush (yellowing plants, lol) in: 2 parts potting, 1 part perlite, 1/2 part sea & 1/2 part worm castings.

Then this is going to be my new mix: 3 part promix hp/bx, 1/3 sea, 1/3 worm castings, 1/3 cattle/sheep manure, 1 part perlite... optinal: some add 2 tablespoons lime, maybe because of added organic?

These are the recipes i have and based on availability in my area. Not sure, but it does seem like decent stuff... weed shouldn't be this hard to grow, haha!
I am trying to keep my retard leafs as green for aslong I can, but seems like week 3 they fall off, root issues maybe?

Either way I wouldn't mind more suggestions on this.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

Here are pictures of the 2 plants right now, its weird but to me it appeared the buds smelled musky before i flushed them, now the mango kush seems to give off a more citrusy/fruity scent, more healthy.

White widow:

Mango kush:

They are showing same symptoms, white widow lacking a bit behind mango in bud density.

I got some Florakleen (dissolve salts and flush nutes out), liquid black crystal (for nute uptake& to lower ph it says), and future harvest bud boom coming in mail tomorrow.

Shall i just continue to feed with my flora series 3 part as normal and add the liquid black crystal & bud boom with 6.2-6.5 PhD water?

Or do a good flush first with florakleen, hoping to get the ph drop more.

I suspect by the time i have to water again, the ph will be back up to 7.5. I might just have to add a spoon of alu. Sulfate next watering again.

 

[Jimster]

I am stunned myself about the rising of the PH, the soils I use should be adjusted. I have read many times where people had 8.0+ph that they should add extra lime before planting to keep a constant ph of ~7.0, it gets rid of PH spikes.

I think you might be misunderstanding the Ph scale and how stuff relates to it. A Ph of 7 is neutral... neither acidic or alkaline. Plants like Cannabis prefer doils that are very slightly acidic... around a Ph range of 6-7, depending on your growing method. Lime is a compound made from calcium carbonate, which is crushed limestone or oyster/clam shells. It is used primarily to raise Ph, meaning it makes it more alkaline. If it is already alkaline or neutral, ading lime will cause the Ph to increase/rise as the lime breaks down. I think this is what you are seeing if you added lime to your mix. Promix has lime added to it during manufacturing to offset the natural acidity of the peat that is uses for it's base material. Lime is pretty powerful but takes a while to work. You will probably have to continue to lower the Ph thru addition of a Ph lowering/down compound, like the sulfate you mentioned. Once you have your Ph back in range, the plants will be able to use more of the nutrients in the soil. Nutrient wise, I don't know what to recommend as I use a different style of feeding and only feed every few weeks when they get large. Your potting soil might already have nutrients added to it, so you don't want to overdo it... but you don't want them to starve either. I would address the Ph to get it to around 6.5 if possible and to feed lightly, but not too much until you see how they respond to the Ph adjustment.
Once the Ph gets off of the desired range, it is difficult to get it back in just because of the sheer amount of growing medium that needs changed. In nature, Ph swings are very slow and minor, so you should strive to keep the same basic Ph from the beginning without having to adjust it, which is why you shouldn't use lime with Promix in general.

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree with @Jimster promix is great good mix and you don't need to add lime.

For this grow all you can do is try to scratch in some peat to help lower the soil pH.

Always test the ph of the soil and adjust before growing. Your kinda sol for this run so just need to do the best you can. If you can get some more peat into the mix it will help but not likely to fix it.

 

[BowHunterSimon]

Thanks for the answers.

I am aware of how the PH scale works, lime is alkeline, therefore it does not make sense to add extra lime... I did not add extra lime to my potting, perlite, organic mix (the stuff I'm growing in right now) and am getting ph 8.0 (the 1 part organic should drop the PH in this case, but does not... and i can't see the potting soil being loaded with alkeline ingredients to spike/stay at 8.0ph, especially with no added lime)

So people were saying in order to prevent these spikes 5.0-8.0+ PH in soil, they add lime as it keeps the soil PH at a more steady 7.0 as it acts as a buffer.

I have been trying my best to get soil to stay at 6.5 but simply won't. Anyways, the 6 week olds are soon to be done, I'll go with it for the remainder of the grow.

Now to the Promix, perlite, organic mix for the future. I prepared a big barrel with this mix already and have had it resting for a few weeks now.

I understand not to add lime to this mix as it would make it more alkeline and promix they do use a buffing agent (lime) already. Says for plants between 5.0-7.0ph right on the bag.

Tho i think people add lime there because of the 1 part organic which would make it more acidic again, especially peat is very acidic hence why promix buffers it already...

I did plant 2 little plants in this mix already (3 weeks old), they look good but when i tested ph on them, i am right around 7.0-7.2... nothing added to promix, plants looks nice and green tho. I am just puzzled, but i understand the lime and higher ph thing

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks for the answers.

I am aware of how the PH scale works, lime is alkeline, therefore it does not make sense to add extra lime... I did not add extra lime to my potting, perlite, organic mix (the stuff I'm growing in right now) and am getting ph 8.0 (the 1 part organic should drop the PH in this case, but does not... and i can't see the potting soil being loaded with alkeline ingredients to spike/stay at 8.0ph, especially with no added lime)

So people were saying in order to prevent these spikes 5.0-8.0+ PH in soil, they add lime as it keeps the soil PH at a more steady 7.0 as it acts as a buffer.

I have been trying my best to get soil to stay at 6.5 but simply won't. Anyways, the 6 week olds are soon to be done, I'll go with it for the remainder of the grow.

Now to the Promix, perlite, organic mix for the future. I prepared a big barrel with this mix already and have had it resting for a few weeks now.

I understand not to add lime to this mix as it would make it more alkeline and promix they do use a buffing agent (lime) already. Says for plants between 5.0-7.0ph right on the bag.

Tho i think people add lime there because of the 1 part organic which would make it more acidic again, especially peat is very acidic hence why promix buffers it already...

I did plant 2 little plants in this mix already (3 weeks old), they look good but when i tested ph on them, i am right around 7.0-7.2... nothing added to promix, plants looks nice and green tho. I am just puzzled, but i understand the lime and higher ph thing

Yeah they reason they say more stable if you add lime is because the more you add each acids and bases the more stability you get. But if it already has lime like promix does they have done this for you so the added lime is the issue. If you have a small amount of buffering capacity (ability to neutralize acid) or aka alkalinity then you can get ph swings.

You have your info correct the only issue was this was already done for you so adding more threw it out of balance.

Peat is acidic so adding more may help bring back that balance. You can't use acids to lower soil pH on a permanent basis they break down to quickly. So unless you add peat your gonna fight this to the end.

The organic nutrients your talking about lowering the soil pH will do so but how michs depends on the alkalinity of the soil. The fact they are not lowering it enough is to much lime (buffering capacity). The reason these nutrients should is they provide ammonia and the plants need an extra process to uptake ammonia in that process they release h+ ions into the soil and that lowers ph.

You can try feeding a feet that is a bit higher in ammonia/ammonium like ammonium nitrate. But you have to be careful not to burn the plants

 

[BowHunterSimon]

ou have your info correct the only issue was this was already done for you so adding more threw it out of balance

I have never added any extra lime tho to my potting,perlite,organic mix 8.0ph.

I have some liquid black crystal stuff to pickup today which i will add next watering. Description:

 

[BowHunterSimon]

These 2 (topped) plants are in my promix, organic, perlite substrate, 3 week old black widow & purple haze. Looking good, Ph right around 7.0.

My soil, perlite, organic mix is my 6 week olds (pictures above), ph was pushing 8.0. Still holding at 7.0-7.2 now after 3 day of flush.

No extra lime added to either one.