Ballin' On a Budget- THE RECIPE

  • Thread starter BillFarthing
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pdasterly

pdasterly

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Ok great info!

I can't seem to find kelpak for sale anywhere, even though they have a website:


I found a sales email and phone number I'll reach out to tomorrow.

But do you know where it can be bought online?

Is it expensive?

Would it be too much to run Kelpak and fulvic powder together in DWC?

I'll save the kelp4less dry kelp for when I flip to flower as you suggest.
$150

 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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How am I looking???
Add a soluble silica like Grow Genius or Grotek Gro-Silic and you will have a solid lineup start to finish.

While I use powders when possible, Mr. Fulvic is a liquid to retain amino/organic acids and soluble silica must be formulated as a liquid as well. They are all concentrates, so you are shipping as little water as possible.
 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Do I need the silica through veg or just in flower?
Sorry @BillFarthing i couldn't resist this one.

Through veg and imo until after stretch then stop or cut back. But it's not an issue to use the full grow if you want but it will make for some grinder buster nugs. By that I mean can make them rock hard. Some like that appeal and some don't. Personally I feel those ppl are kinda caught in the hype of dense rock hard buds but to me it's not a plus. Personal preference I guess.
 
radmobile

radmobile

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Sorry @BillFarthing i couldn't resist this one.

Through veg and imo until after stretch then stop or cut back. But it's not an issue to use the full grow if you want but it will make for some grinder buster nugs. By that I mean can make them rock hard. Some like that appeal and some don't. Personally I feel those ppl are kinda caught in the hype of dense rock hard buds but to me it's not a plus. Personal preference I guess.
Ok so I need PowerSi not PowerSi Bloom.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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It’s definitely a trend to have rock hard nugs right now. They do hold moisture and terps weirdly, but are ironically less likely to have botrytis.

Yes, you can use PowerSi in veg/transition bloom because the bloom formula also has BAP or some kind of cytokinin in it.
 
radmobile

radmobile

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It’s definitely a trend to have rock hard nugs right now. They do hold moisture and terps weirdly, but are ironically less likely to have botrytis.

Yes, you can use PowerSi in veg/transition bloom because the bloom formula also has BAP or some kind of cytokinin in it.
Awesome! Thank you for the advice. I purchased both PowerSi and PowerSi Bloom. I see a difference in my plants after only 2 feedings. Jacks is amazing stuff!
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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I see a difference in my plants after only 2 feedings. Jacks is amazing stuff!
If you are doing sealed room CO2, I suggest bumping it up to 3.6 Jack's/2.4 Cal Nit/1.2 epsom. I would suggest supplementing with epsom with CMH and LED fixtures.

Also, the easiest way to bump calcium content without additional supplementation is to use Haifa Cal Prime instead of their regular Cal Nit.
 
radmobile

radmobile

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If you are doing sealed room CO2, I suggest bumping it up to 3.6 Jack's/2.4 Cal Nit/1.2 epsom. I would suggest supplementing with epsom with CMH and LED fixtures.

Also, the easiest way to bump calcium content without additional supplementation is to use Haifa Cal Prime instead of their regular Cal Nit.
Can you explain the bump with CO2? I have filtered air intake from outside, so I always have fresh air. Just curious about the reason, as I may do the sealed room with CO2 in the winter (winter in Maine is rough).
Also, will I need more calcium outside of the continuous feed with Calnit?

thanks for all the great info!!!
 
harmonics

harmonics

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I love fertilizer. I work with big grows down to friends that have a single 400w light. I recommend the same thing to each and every one of them. It is used start to finish, so there's no following confusing feed schedules. A buddy of mine started calling this "The Recipe" because it is cheap, simple and gives some amazing quality flower.

It consists of:
1) Silica- I always recommend soluble silica like PowerSi or Grow Genius. If you are in a pinch, you can use potassium silicate, but you have to keep an eye on the pH.
2) Jacks Classic Hydro, Calcium Nitrate and epsom salt- This is your base fertilizer. It is 3 grams Jack's, 2 grams calcium nitrate, 1 gram epsom salt per gallon
3) Fulvic Acid- This helps prevent pH problems and plant stress and gives organic taste and smell. There's lots of watered down additives out there, but I recommend Mr. Fulvic because it is a concentrate and has fulvic, amino and organic acids.

The quality and yields are phenomenal. Depending on what quantities you buy, it can be $0.06-$0.10/gallon.

View attachment 1129079
Thank you for making this thread @BillFarthing! It’s been very informative and you’ve inspired me to start using “The Recipe” (love the name)
I’m a long time fan of using powdered mineral salts (NPK Raw to In-out-Ag/CannAg/Kalix Cpn) all literally the exact same thing 😂
*The last 3 are the same company, it’s Harley Smiths RAW spinoff for commercial growers, love the stuff but a 25lb bag lasts me 5+ years haha, these days there are lots of other great options

This looks right up my alley; thank you for sharing!!
 
mikeross

mikeross

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If you are doing sealed room CO2, I suggest bumping it up to 3.6 Jack's/2.4 Cal Nit/1.2 epsom. I would suggest supplementing with epsom with CMH and LED fixtures.

Also, the easiest way to bump calcium content without additional supplementation is to use Haifa Cal Prime instead of their regular Cal Nit.

If I'm currently not seeing any calcium deficiency's using Cal Nit, is there any benefits to me switching over to Haifa Cal Prime... I know my guy stocks the Cal Prime. Is it worth it to make the switch, any possible improvements?

The rep at Mr.Fulvic got back to me. He said they just got approved for sale in Canada and waiting for their labeling to come in so they can ship directly here.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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Can you explain the bump with CO2? I have filtered air intake from outside, so I always have fresh air. Just curious about the reason, as I may do the sealed room with CO2 in the winter (winter in Maine is rough).
Also, will I need more calcium outside of the continuous feed with Calnit?
CO2 makes the plant metabolism go crazy, especially at hotter temperatures. When you put together a formula in Hydrobuddy, your calcium should be more than your nitrates. At transition, you can bump the increased calcium intake at 0.2-0.4g/gallon of calcium acetate.

The science that goes into the RAW line is solid, although I'm not fond of their hydro store "green tax". I prefer Jack's/Masterblend, cal nit and epsom salt because I'm cheap and it works well.

If I'm currently not seeing any calcium deficiency's using Cal Nit, is there any benefits to me switching over to Haifa Cal Prime... I know my guy stocks the Cal Prime. Is it worth it to make the switch, any possible improvements?

The rep at Mr.Fulvic got back to me. He said they just got approved for sale in Canada and waiting for their labeling to come in so they can ship directly here.

You're not going to be mad at extra calcium in Cal Prime. There is actually a nationwide shortage of it right now. It helps plant metabolism and may even help prevent PM and botrytis.

The few times I've contacted Mr. Fulvic, his customer service has been good. I know his product is solid.
 
Jasper.Palmer

Jasper.Palmer

22
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Hi, the Recipe is compelling and I want to try it in my next grow. Any experience with using the Recipe with an Autopot setup, along with coco/perlite potting mix ?

i.e. does it work from the roots' perspective

does it risk gumming up the Autopot lines and valves? thank you!
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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Hi, the Recipe is compelling and I want to try it in my next grow. Any experience with using the Recipe with an Autopot setup, along with coco/perlite potting mix ?

i.e. does it work from the roots' perspective

does it risk gumming up the Autopot lines and valves? thank you!
Thank you for your reply. All the inputs should be totally soluble. I would use a nice, light and airy mix like buffered Canna coco 70/30 perlite. I would top feed until roots are established and there should be no issues with using Autopots.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

98
18
If you are doing sealed room CO2, I suggest bumping it up to 3.6 Jack's/2.4 Cal Nit/1.2 epsom. I would suggest supplementing with epsom with CMH and LED fixtures.

Also, the easiest way to bump calcium content without additional supplementation is to use Haifa Cal Prime instead of their regular Cal Nit.
That Haifa Cal Prime has a 17-0-0 +33

So it still has high nitrogen, but I assume the +33 is in reference to the more calcium that it has?

So at what point do you completely stop Jacks Cal/Nit 15-0-0 and start using the Haifa Cal Prime 17-0-0 +33?

Also, how do you feel about also using Triacontanol derived from alfalfa in this recipe if I'm going to be using a product like Kelpak in veg and kelp during flip as a natural PGRs?

@pdasterly thanks for that link!

I actually ended up talking to Kelpak and they got me in touch with the only legal re-packager they allow to resell their product in smaller quantities, which is FirstRays.com

I paid $38 shipped for a quart of KelpMax, which is FirstRays.com rebranded Kelpak.

So your link is considerably cheaper at $120 + shipping for 2.5 gallons. But that is also A LOT and I may never use that much, so I have to spend a bit more up front. First Rays does 4 liters for $130 shipped, so his prices are a bit higher on larger quantities surprisingly.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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So at what point do you completely stop Jacks Cal/Nit 15-0-0 and start using the Haifa Cal Prime 17-0-0 +33?

Also, how do you feel about also using Triacontanol derived from alfalfa in this recipe if I'm going to be using a product like Kelpak in veg and kelp during flip as a natural PGRs?
Haifa Cal Prime is calcium nitrate. It just has 10% more calcium than 15-0-0 cal nit. It is used as a direct replacement.

I just recommend fulvic for chelation/organic acids, silica for strong stems and a bit of calcium and cytokinin dominant kelp for structure and vigor at transition. Potassium dominant bloom booster week 6 of flower. A majority of the work is done by the base fertilizer.

Biostimulants like triacontanol aren't a magic bullet for growing and having to figure out the dosage can leave you with spindly flowers.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

98
18
Ahh ok, great info! Not looking for foxtails lol

So are kelps/PGRs and alfalfas/traicontanol both considered biostimulants?

Or are they two completely different classes of compounds all together?
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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So are kelps/PGRs and alfalfas/traicontanol both considered biostimulants?
There are only 5 types of biostimulants for agriculture- humates, plant/animal extracts, beneficial microbes and minerals (Ca, Si, Mo). If it is of natural origin and affects plant growth, it is a biostimulant. They are typically "additives" found at the hydroponics store. You can make and source your own for a fraction of the cost without the hydro store "green tax".
 

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