Beds Are For F***ing! Small Pots = Big Buds!

[Prime C]

Cap, do you have any idea how much water you run through each 3x3 bed, either each feeding or each 24 hr day? Or how much runoff you are getting per watering or per day? I'm guessing you get little to no runoff during the first part of the day and a lot of runoff by the end of the day.

Also, what type of mini sprinklers are you using? I've tried sooooo many different kinds and configurations, 180 degree, 360 degree, etc. and haven't found any that provide decent coverage without slowing down or partially clogging halfway through the crop. Always have to hand water with a wand once a week to flush out the dry/nutrient-concentrated spots. I've also tried everything from a Mondi 1500 GPH sump pump to a 3 HP centrifugal; didn't seem to make that much of a difference so I don't think pressure or volume is the problem.

I had the same problem using drippers. So I made my own! Simple with no clogs. 1/4 inch drip line with T's as the dripper head.

I call it the Prime Halo!

Bit of a pain to put together but its simple and it works. Manifold/Equal length 1/4 drip line/Prime Halo/Eco 633 pump. You can make the Halo any size to fit your pots. I feed for one minute 5 times lights on. There's always a little runoff. I go through 15 gallons a day for 4 lights feeding 34 1 gallon pots.

 

[solYPuraVida]

Being new to coco, would it be best to push the boundaries of dry/feed of coco in the beginning or establish a consistent feed schedule to ease stress from transplant?

 

[Capulator]

@Jenny I was using basket drippers from the hydro shop. They are pretty much open ended tubing with a screen. One per plant, 9 plants per 3x3 bed. I was getting about a 1/2 gallon of runoff per day for each bed, and watering in probably 3-4 gallons or so. @soopy DJM has had the game on lock for a minute now. That guy kills it. Same with @JACKMAYOFFER He is using 3 gal smart pots to grow 10' tall plants. I remember having a conversation about this when he was putting it together and we both knew you could grow a massive plant in a small pot as long as you kept it fed and watered.

I know @waayne will want to chime in here too at some point as he is a firm believer of the appropriate sized pot for the plant.

I am not saying you can't have a great run in a small container, but there is something to be said about a root bound plant as well. It's all about the veg time. I am 100% sure plants with a larger pot/root space will grow bigger, wider, quicker. Keep in mind DJM keeps his plants in veg for a really long time (like 8-10 weeks).

 

[Prime C]

If I had more room Id be growing trees. But because of my space veg is limited. No need to up pot if Im getting the results from a little pot. I think coco breaks that myth of bigger pot = bigger yeild. If I add a couple more feeds no need for it. Root density over root mass. Coco bondage!

 

[soopy]

True that @Capulator, I'm sure the extra veg time that DJM gives them allows them to be fed multiple times a day out of the gate, as the roots have already maximized their surroundings by the time flower comes and are ready to eat! No down time, in the plants eye, I would guess. Ridin' the wave....

 

[Prime C]

True that @Capulator, I'm sure the extra veg time that DJM gives them allows them to be fed multiple times a day out of the gate, as the roots have already maximized their surroundings by the time flower comes and are ready to eat! No down time, in the plants eye, I would guess. Ridin' the wave....

Who is DJM? And where is he at Id like to read up.

 

[Tree Guru]

Who is DJM? And where is he at Id like to read up.

Donjuanmatuss... You wanna talk about big coco trees, in small pots. He use to be on the boards back in the day, before requesting most of his pics and postings deleted. Now relocated, hes back...dropping knowledge. When it comes to growing, this dude is a beast, a true inspiration! You can check him out on instagram, or his "Coco Tree" thread on icmag.

 

[cannapits]

Donjuanmatuss... You wanna talk about big coco trees, in small pots. He use to be on the boards back in the day, before requesting most of his pics and postings deleted. Now relocated, hes back...dropping knowledge. When it comes to growing, this dude is a beast, a true inspiration! You can check him out on instagram, or his "Coco Tree" thread on icmag.

yeah hes bounced around a few places but my swamp fam kills it in coco and RW... check him out @Prime C .

 

[Prime C]

That grow was killer! He dropped a lot of knowledge in that thread. That's my path! Root bound and ready to rock! :cool:

 

[Prime C]

Being new to coco, would it be best to push the boundaries of dry/feed of coco in the beginning or establish a consistent feed schedule to ease stress from transplant?

Yes especially when they are young and feed light. Good time for OG Biowar too to get them bennies going. Once the roots are established they will let you know they are ready to be pushed and fed. If you water one day and its light the next start the multiple feeds.

 

[Jenny]

@Jenny I was using basket drippers from the hydro shop. They are pretty much open ended tubing with a screen. One per plant, 9 plants per 3x3 bed. I was getting about a 1/2 gallon of runoff per day for each bed, and watering in probably 3-4 gallons or so. @soopy DJM has had the game on lock for a minute now. That guy kills it. Same with @JACKMAYOFFER He is using 3 gal smart pots to grow 10' tall plants. I remember having a conversation about this when he was putting it together and we both knew you could grow a massive plant in a small pot as long as you kept it fed and watered.

I know @waayne will want to chime in here too at some point as he is a firm believer of the appropriate sized pot for the plant.

I am not saying you can't have a great run in a small container, but there is something to be said about a root bound plant as well. It's all about the veg time. I am 100% sure plants with a larger pot/root space will grow bigger, wider, quicker. Keep in mind DJM keeps his plants in veg for a really long time (like 8-10 weeks).

Damn, basket drippers? I've used those things for years in drip systems with pots and bato buckets but I never thought about using them in a bed. I'm surprised you didn't get salt buildup in the areas that weren't being leached by the dripper stream, but I guess if you keep the EC low enough and the plants are healthy and hungry it's all good. I usually run a minimum of 10 gallons at no more than 1000 PPM through each 4x8 bed with at least 15% runoff once per day and I still have to keep an eye on things to keep the runoff PPM's from climbing too high. I may just have to try watering more frequently but at a lower volume on the next run as an experiment to see if that has a positive impact. I've wanted to try that experiment in the past but I've always felt that the media (75/25 chow mix) would stay too wet without that 24 hour dry out time. There's a lot of coco, retaining a lot of fluid, in a 4x8 bed... Thanks for the inspiration!

 

[half baked]

View attachment 487004 Best part about beds is reusing the coco in them. Just tear out the plants, turn it over, and put fresh starts in. This is the only reason I transitioned to beds.

20 seconds on and an hour off is what I have always fed, whether in wool or coco. If you top feed you can get away with a lot, meaning very low EC or very high EC. The key is the constant leaching. I also have a theory that the plants get used to being watered at specific time intervals, and so they no longer stress about getting water and put all their energy in to growth.

How are those gavita lights without the hoods? Or am I just tripping lol

 

[ftwendy]

wondering the same thing @half baked

 

[Prime C]

5.5 week Glue top

 

[Capulator]

@half baked @ftwendy

No reflectors. I take them off when I am doing half pipes or if the plants are getting too big. That's a 12' x 24' room with 9k and even with no reflectors it's really really bright in there. Without a reflector and depending on strain you can get much closer to the bulb as well.

 

[waayne]

@Capulator @Prime C Looking good Bud
You better stick to coco or Rockwool though,if you try to do this with organic living soil,you will see pretty modest yields using those small containers...

The idea of using multiple irrigation cycles with soilless mediums is nothing new ,back in the 80's we fed hydroton 12-18 times a day in ebb and flow tables. Speeding up the wet dry cycle nearly always increases production.....as long as there are no other limiting factors.... Though even in hydro I found my yields would increase if I used 2 gallon containers in ebb and flow hydro tables compared to 1 gallon containers

I grew 6 foot tall Sativa hybrids in 4x4 Rockwool cubes in the 80's,and they would do well,but I find I much prefer my organic soil grown product to coco ,or hydro,so I'm fine with using more soil,and a little less yield.When I've placed identical sized clones in to 7 gallon containers of organic soil,and 20 gallon containers
I see substantial yield increases in the larger container,everytime......

Unless you're consistently getting yields in beds like @GrowMaster or @EveryOneSmokes ,you have not reached the real potential of the beds......

In my own garden I find trying to grow plants in undersized containers to be tedious,and very touchy compared to using more media.Especially with tired old Elite OG cuts....

Your results look impressive,I'm glad it's working for you,but I've already been down that road,long ago......

Good luck @Prime C

 

[symbiote420]

I'm using 3 gallons exclusively now with organic soil & dry nutes and I'm smashing the biggest yields I've ever gotten from 5s, 7s, or 10s on the regular now and I'm using the same amount of veg time and lighting! The keys for me have been top dressing weekly and the volume of watering. I do amend with a bit of coco but my soil for the most part is mostly peat based, the roots are sucking those smaller pots so dry I'm watering once of twice a day..... which is no biggie for me and my buds are just as good as they've ever been, just yielding a lot more!!

 

[Prime C]

Im gonna want to pick your brain on that one day @symbiote420 ! I really enjoyed the flavor on my soil run and want to revisit it one day just want better results. (yield) ;) Sounds like you've figured that out. :)

 

[Prime C]

Wanted to copy this over here from DJM on multifeeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoned40yrs
Best root porn I've seen on here! I find it amazing you can feed them 850ppm/6 times a day with no runoff and not get salt buildup. Do you use drip clean?

thanks man..no, im not a fan of drip clean..i used it before but don't dig it..im ocd when it comes to monitoring and testing ingoing water and run off..that has gave me a very confident understanding of how to counter act salt build up in my medium..imo DC is just a bandage for improper feeding, watering techniques and monitoring .. there is no substitute for understanding your medium, what goes it and what comes out

yeah it may sound crazy that feeding 6 times a day will create no salt build up ...seems counter intuitive ,but ill explain why that is the case...when water travels through the medium, its contained in its vessel of water..as that water dries within the medium, the salt looses its vessel of water and becomes trapped in the medium, leading to salt build up...allowing the medium to try out even slighty, creates spikes of ec/ppm in the medium...keeping the medium moist at all times does not...the first grow I posted, I feed the same amount of water to each plant, except I did 3-4 times a day..with this the medium did dry out slighty, making salt build up an issue and run off necessary...however when bumping the feedings up to 6x a day, the medium is always wet and salt build up is not an issue as the nutrients are always contained it that vessel of water...ive been monitoring the run off every 3 weeks, pouring extra feed through one of the pots to give me just enough run off to test..after week 5 of feeding 6x a day, my runoff tested at 925ppms, when it had never seen higher than 850ppms..last week the reading was 928..so only 75ppms of build up after 42 days of flower and a 3 week pre veg...that amount is a non issue...I aim to keep run off under 1000ppms in any medium or scenario..by flush im expecting it to be in the high 900s

its all about keeping the medium wet...when I grew in wool I used wet and dry cycles and only fed at 700ppms..salt build up would spike during each dry cycle and rise as much as 300ppms per week..i gave plain phd water every 4th feed to counter act that spike..feed strength, run off, water to air ratio in the medium all play crucial parts in a stable medium and the presence of salt build up..i wouldn't feed at 850 ppms if I was letting my medium dry, in that scenario id max out at 700 like I use to...its a delicate dance playing all the elements against eachother...people cant feed high successfully in coco because they are letting the medium dry out.. a lot of hearsay around the subject, some say dry it , some say don't.. I trust my eyes and meters...and imo if you are not feeding coco atleast 4 times a day, you are not unlocking the true capablitites in coco..the more you feed the wetter the medium..wetter the medium the higher you can feed and more nutrients they can absorb, leading to faster growth and a much more stable medium,,,ive tried water every other day, everyday, twice a day, 3, 4, 5, 6...the more I feed, the better results..so much so that i may go up to one feed every hour next run

with that said, multifeeds only work with A. an undersized rootbound pot and B. a thriving and thick root mass...if you throw and under developed root system in too big of a pot and try it , its a recipe for disaster...roots need dry cycles to thrive and expand...once root bound is when you want to start multifeeding...during early veg I use a wet and dry cycle and only start muti feeds in the final container...I do this to encourage dense roots mass as the dry cycle make the roots branch out in search of water...keeping them wet early on will not and will retard root growth ..once in final containers I start 2x a day and bump up as necessary to keep the medium wet...by flip im running 6x a day...this is with pure coco..if cut with enough perlite, once could multifeed from the jump with similar results

a lot more than what you asked but wanting to address the subject and variables for others interested..hope that helps some people out there get a better understanding of their medium and the elements that effect its stability

 

[MrBelvedere]

Wanted to copy this over here from DJM on multifeeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoned40yrs
Best root porn I've seen on here! I find it amazing you can feed them 850ppm/6 times a day with no runoff and not get salt buildup. Do you use drip clean?

thanks man..no, im not a fan of drip clean..i used it before but don't dig it..im ocd when it comes to monitoring and testing ingoing water and run off..that has gave me a very confident understanding of how to counter act salt build up in my medium..imo DC is just a bandage for improper feeding, watering techniques and monitoring .. there is no substitute for understanding your medium, what goes it and what comes out

yeah it may sound crazy that feeding 6 times a day will create no salt build up ...seems counter intuitive ,but ill explain why that is the case...when water travels through the medium, its contained in its vessel of water..as that water dries within the medium, the salt looses its vessel of water and becomes trapped in the medium, leading to salt build up...allowing the medium to try out even slighty, creates spikes of ec/ppm in the medium...keeping the medium moist at all times does not...the first grow I posted, I feed the same amount of water to each plant, except I did 3-4 times a day..with this the medium did dry out slighty, making salt build up an issue and run off necessary...however when bumping the feedings up to 6x a day, the medium is always wet and salt build up is not an issue as the nutrients are always contained it that vessel of water...ive been monitoring the run off every 3 weeks, pouring extra feed through one of the pots to give me just enough run off to test..after week 5 of feeding 6x a day, my runoff tested at 925ppms, when it had never seen higher than 850ppms..last week the reading was 928..so only 75ppms of build up after 42 days of flower and a 3 week pre veg...that amount is a non issue...I aim to keep run off under 1000ppms in any medium or scenario..by flush im expecting it to be in the high 900s

its all about keeping the medium wet...when I grew in wool I used wet and dry cycles and only fed at 700ppms..salt build up would spike during each dry cycle and rise as much as 300ppms per week..i gave plain phd water every 4th feed to counter act that spike..feed strength, run off, water to air ratio in the medium all play crucial parts in a stable medium and the presence of salt build up..i wouldn't feed at 850 ppms if I was letting my medium dry, in that scenario id max out at 700 like I use to...its a delicate dance playing all the elements against eachother...people cant feed high successfully in coco because they are letting the medium dry out.. a lot of hearsay around the subject, some say dry it , some say don't.. I trust my eyes and meters...and imo if you are not feeding coco atleast 4 times a day, you are not unlocking the true capablitites in coco..the more you feed the wetter the medium..wetter the medium the higher you can feed and more nutrients they can absorb, leading to faster growth and a much more stable medium,,,ive tried water every other day, everyday, twice a day, 3, 4, 5, 6...the more I feed, the better results..so much so that i may go up to one feed every hour next run

with that said, multifeeds only work with A. an undersized rootbound pot and B. a thriving and thick root mass...if you throw and under developed root system in too big of a pot and try it , its a recipe for disaster...roots need dry cycles to thrive and expand...once root bound is when you want to start multifeeding...during early veg I use a wet and dry cycle and only start muti feeds in the final container...I do this to encourage dense roots mass as the dry cycle make the roots branch out in search of water...keeping them wet early on will not and will retard root growth ..once in final containers I start 2x a day and bump up as necessary to keep the medium wet...by flip im running 6x a day...this is with pure coco..if cut with enough perlite, once could multifeed from the jump with similar results

a lot more than what you asked but wanting to address the subject and variables for others interested..hope that helps some people out there get a better understanding of their medium and the elements that effect its stability

Killer info, did he mention what coir/perlite ratio he uses? Thank you prime.