Beds Are For F***ing! Small Pots = Big Buds!

[Funkadelic]

Revisited this thread today and got to googling about coir irrigation scheduling. This article here is pretty informative:
http://www.myriadint.com.au/Mexico Presentation.pdf
It's put out by a coco manufacturer but contains some thought-provoking charts and techniques.

Excellent share Mr Savage. It both reinforced my observations and informed my future practice.

I'm now considering how to implement some of these recommendations in my cultivation.

In addition to my short cycle timer, which Im definitely going to run more frequently and in smaller volume, it appears beneficial to limit feedings at start and end of light cycle. I believe I will therefore put the short cycle on another timer so the plants have time to wake up / rest.

 

[saltwater]

3 gallon grow bag- vegan soil... I did make some teas for her and on occasion I mixed rocks dust and water and then feed her this for the added phosp
All in all it was a 16z plant with little trim left over thanks to the big haze dom colas...

What strain is this ??

 

[Savage Henry]

I believe I will therefore put the short cycle on another timer so the plants have time to wake up / rest.

Got a watch with that, if it's one of the short cycle timers where you need to manipulate the knobs a certain way within the first 5 sec of plugging it in in order to set it to day/night/both it'll reset itself when the timer it's plugged into clicks on/off.

I'm trying to figure it out, would be a hell of a lot easier with a solenoid a legit irrigation timer, and injectors but I'm not quite there yet.

 

[Funkadelic]

I also wonder what other timers might allow schedules like these.

 

[Funkadelic]

Got a watch with that, if it's one of the short cycle timers where you need to manipulate the knobs a certain way within the first 5 sec of plugging it in in order to set it to day/night/both it'll reset itself when the timer it's plugged into clicks on/off.

I'm trying to figure it out, would be a hell of a lot easier with a solenoid a legit irrigation timer, and injectors but I'm not quite there yet.

DAMN. Did not know they worked like that.

That said, even a 5sec on, 30min off watering (just say) started 2 hours in (due to being plugged into another timer, the short cycle photocell isn't allowed to do its thing until 2hrs in, and ends 2re before lights out)....

The plants would not get those really short intervals mid cycle, true, but the 1st and last 2 hours wouldn't have irrigation. If that makes sense.

In the document, it would mean a regular timer would kick on 2hrs in, then the photocell short cycle would be allowed to run, but the timer would stop it 2 hours before dark. It wouldn't have those intense mid light cycle frquencies, but it would at least take care of those start and end times right?

 

[Funkadelic]

Also reinforces high EC for flower. Regardless of nute uptake it seems to help induce heavier fruit set.

 

[Savage Henry]

Theoretically, yea. They have these newer short cycle timers out now where there's just a switch on em to tell the photocell what to do. Bet that would work perfect.

Last round I played around with the late start/ early stop (2hrs. Each) but only irrigated 3x/day and I crushed my previous best yield significantly.

So if this paper and all the anecdotal evidence out there is to be believed (or tested) then if I keep the same total amounts of irrigation volume but spread it out between, say 8 irrigations to start than I should be able to achieve even better results.

I like the point made that the 20% runoff benchmark isn't necessarily per irrigation cycle but a total runoff for the day.

Found this chart to log all of it:http://www.californiasubstrates.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/CaliforniaSubstrates-FeedData.pdf

 

[Funkadelic]

Theoretically, yea. They have these newer short cycle timers out now where there's just a switch on em to tell the photocell what to do. Bet that would work perfect.

Last round I played around with the late start/ early stop (2hrs. Each) but only irrigated 3x/day and I crushed my previous best yield significantly.

So if this paper and all the anecdotal evidence out there is to be believed (or tested) then if I keep the same total amounts of irrigation volume but spread it out between, say 8 irrigations to start than I should be able to achieve even better results.

I like the point made that the 20% runoff benchmark isn't necessarily per irrigation cycle but a total runoff for the day.

Found this chart to log all of it:http://www.californiasubstrates.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/CaliforniaSubstrates-FeedData.pdf

I did the 8 feedings but not the 2hr cutoffs on either side. I also saw significant improvement.
Looks we both started to approximate what's described in that document from the coco manufacturer you linked. Good sign.

I'm totally convinced to combine both of our observed results into a schedule like the one you posted. Kickass

 

[We Solidarity]

bigger roots = bigger fruits and harvest i always used 1 gallon per 1 foot of growth
And with that said 1 gallon medium to = 1 oz of product on other note its the internet where everything 1/2 gallon and up is capable of a pound harvest lol
Its like people thinking everyone is just new to growing 1 pound is a hell of alot of buds 4 pounds wet to be exact that is a lot for only 3 gallon truthfully speaking one truly needs 10 - 20 gallon pot to produce a pound plant in most cases on most strains now one might pull something from a garbage strain like Critical mass but then again just have to look on the net on average yields per pot size Its a no brainer
Lets be real folk right Cause if that was the case us out door growers have been doing it wrong all along

Your logic is perfect for soil-- this thread is regarding coco, which you can push way harder than soil. @HiPlainDrftr has some pics of a 5 gal coco plant that pulled over a pound...so instead of "an ounce per gallon" I'd say "100 grams per gallon" would be a more accurate goal in coco. If you only pull a zip per gallon of coco you're doing it wrong.

 

[Funkadelic]

Your logic is perfect for soil-- this thread is regarding coco, which you can push way harder than soil. @HiPlainDrftr has some pics of a 5 gal coco plant that pulled over a pound...so instead of "an ounce per gallon" I'd say "100 grams per gallon" would be a more accurate goal in coco. If you only pull a zip per gallon of coco you're doing it wrong.

Indoor coco forum, specifically.

Nothing against outdoor soil trees. That's a different forum though.

 

[Funkadelic]

Theoretically, yea. They have these newer short cycle timers out now where there's just a switch on em to tell the photocell what to do. Bet that would work perfect.

Last round I played around with the late start/ early stop (2hrs. Each) but only irrigated 3x/day and I crushed my previous best yield significantly.

So if this paper and all the anecdotal evidence out there is to be believed (or tested) then if I keep the same total amounts of irrigation volume but spread it out between, say 8 irrigations to start than I should be able to achieve even better results.

I like the point made that the 20% runoff benchmark isn't necessarily per irrigation cycle but a total runoff for the day.

Found this chart to log all of it:http://www.californiasubstrates.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/CaliforniaSubstrates-FeedData.pdf

Agreed and another legit share, thanks again Savage. Agreed. The chart in that first pdf showed how the runoff accumulates by the end of the day, not all at once. Important.

 

[Danky Mcnugs]

Proof is in the pudding. Small pots rock with coco. These are 1 gallons being fed 6 times a day. Root bound...and they love every second of it as long as you provide frequent feedings. Also only giving these 1.0 ec for feedings. Might bump up to 1.2 during peak flower.

 

[Danky Mcnugs]

Haven't grown in bigger than 2 gallons in coco yet. A buddy of mine did and he had mixed results. The plants never did get that true hydroponic growth rate because he could never get the root structure dense enough. From what I've seen, and from what I've gathered from my own stuff has been that the plants grow much faster when they are root bound and being fed multiple times per day. Another example of what small root zones can do is by checking out jungleboys on instagram.

Last run in coco I pulled a 6.5 ounce plant from a 2 gallon pot of coco. So I figured this run I'd do 1 gallons but more of them. I'm guessing the bigger plants will pull 3-4 Oz. All in all probably a lb. If I were running clones this would have easily been a gram per watt run, but I don't have access to good clones anymore.

The plants do not suffer any symptoms of being root bound like in soil. Its just a completely different way of growing, but similar in some aspects. Other thing that is cool about this is the amount of coco used. To fill all 12 of the 1 gallons I started with wasn't even a full bag. These seven I have left is like half a bag if that.

 

[NickTheGreek]

Question ??? what do you think you will yield with that and do you not think if they were in 3 - 5 gallon they be doing better ??? my guess is they be doing much better ??

I'm doing a coco grow in 3 gallon and they are much bigger i would recommend 5 at the max but 3 is perfect it also cuts your wedding from 6 to 2. 6 feedings is just unnecessary

 

[NickTheGreek]

heres some pics

 

[NickTheGreek]

trees are about 5feet 6 in.

 

[Funkadelic]

I'm doing a coco grow in 3 gallon and they are much bigger i would recommend 5 at the max but 3 is perfect it also cuts your wedding from 6 to 2. 6 feedings is just unnecessary

Disagreed, respectfully

 

[Funkadelic]

Side by side of different pot sizes, smaller wins in controlled experiment in my room. Same everything except pot size.

 

[Superbeasto]

Side by side of different pot sizes, smaller wins in controlled experiment in my room. Same everything except pot size.

How much more input cost do you have into more frequent waterings therefore more nutrients for the smaller pot size?

 

[Funkadelic]

How much more input cost do you have into more frequent waterings therefore more nutrients for the smaller pot size?

When we ran 18g Rubbermaid tubs, soil, Nectar nutrients, we would water 1x/3days.
Spent over a grand a round.

The migration to smaller pots, coco, different nutes has had a learning curve and I've lost a dramatic amount of quality and production. But I'm getting the hang of it now.

That said, this round on the smallest waterings yet (5sec/every 90min) has in a few weeks cost less in water and nutes. Why? The coco has to be moist and the 20-30% runoff has to be a daily total, not per feeding.

I saw on instagram the grower(s) doing numerous tiny waterings, with massive trees in tiny containers.

It convinced me so I'm trying to emulate it. I don't have it down. I'm not an expert on anything nor an authority on anything.

With big pots of SOIL that has outstanding aeration, I've grown big plants.

Now in a polar opposite (coco, small containers, regular tiny waterings), I'm seeing the smallest airpots ALWAYS outperform larger pots. 100% in my observations.

My goal is 1gallon pots all the way. Big enough to take a drip collar (I've got the black horseshoe shaped/U shaped ones, with holes bored out slightly to minimize clogs).

I'm not blasting through water and nutes. Plants are in moist media. They ... appear happy so far.
Time will tell and I promise to report more as I go.

Again, I'm no expert. The biggest trees are outdoor, soil, hands down. Indoor it appears the small pot regular coco beats larger pots. It dries out better. It has tons of O from h2o. It takes less water and nutes overall. So far so good. Not sure if that answers your question specifically? Glad to share my observations anyway.