best organic pk booster

Tnelz · Feb 16, 2014

Seamaiden said:
Not true, Z. Also, OMRI doesn't certify a thing, they are basically a list compilation service, that's it.

Right now the issue with manures are the NOP rules, and the state must remain in compliance there.

The issues inherent with how our government handles organic vs conventional agriculture again starts at the top, and absolutely, the states' certifying agencies are responding to it. Third party and all that shit, yeah? Yeah.

Smartie pants! Lol!

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

+1 for Scott! yes he lays it out there pretty good..class act and entertaining if ya ask me..the shit he says just clicks the light on. I knew about the caves in Mexico..but failed to register the whole cave environment deal. lol

leadsled · Feb 16, 2014

Tnelz said:
Didn't take it like that bro. I completely appreciate the info. Didn't mean to come off any other way!

Cool and all good, reading comprehension does not come easy to everyone.
My point is attempting to communicate clearly

leadsled · Feb 16, 2014

Natural said:
I wouldn't sweat it Z... As for California Organic Program it's geared for foodstuffs. So there are a long list of reasons products won't make the list. Bat Guano no matter how pretty the label is anything but morally sustainable. Seabird Guano is highly sustainable and most likely a pure product. These nute companies are sourcing from people who knock holes into the sides of bat caves..knowing the bats won't migrate to other colonies. Then you have the cave conditions..which would be bats pooping onto a carpet of cockroaches who are eating their shit and pooping themselves.
BUT..I have no problem smoking buds grown on bat guano..as long as i can't taste it..I could care less...and have used plenty of batshit..call me crazy.

There is a clean green certification for mmj.

According to the USDA, all of the fossilized seabird guano supplies are already exhausted. There are however some large reserves of fossilized bat guano left. Seabird guano can also contain up to 6% sodium.

However, ABG phosphate truly is 100% natural, organic and allowed for use in organic farming. ABG phosphate is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI®) for use in production of organic food and fiber. ABG phosphate is fossilized bat guano that has been buried in collapsed caves for thousands of years. Fossilization resulted in depletion of the nitrogen and potentially harmful bacteria that are typically associated with fresh guano. Because of these unique characteristics, ABG phosphate is technically not considered to be guano or manure for regulatory purposes. Instead, OMRI® lists ABG phosphate as a “mined material, unprocessed” and its status is “allowed.” Generally, fruits and vegetables fertilized by materials that have an “allowed” status, such as ABG phosphate, can be harvested any time after fertilization without fear of bacterial contamination. Conversely, fresh guano and manure, because of its potentially harmful bacteria content, generally requires a 90 or 120 day waiting period between fertilization and harvesting of fruits or vegetables.

Manures for Organic Crop Production, G. Kuepper, 2006.
https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/summaries/summary.php?pub=182

leadsled · Feb 16, 2014

More information on bone meal.
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Bone Meal
Bone meal is a phosphate product that is derived from the bodies of animals such as cows and fish. Unless stated otherwise, the product is usually made from cow carcasses. Bone meal is commonly used by organic farmers and home gardeners because it is relatively abundant and inexpensive. Also, compared to raw rock phosphate, it contains much more available phosphate and it is generally more effective on plants.
However, because bone meal is derived from recently deceased animals, vegetarian organizations recommend against its use. Another widely reported problem is that dogs and other carnivorous animals that may be attracted to the smell of bone meal will dig up gardens where this material is applied. Some articles suggest that bone meal should not be used if such animals are present.

A much more controversial issue concerns the possible relationship of bone meal, Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE or Mad Cow disease), Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), Alzheimer’s, and variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) (the human form of Mad Cow).

Most sources agree that BSE is most likely spread through the consumption of BSE-infected meat and bone meal. Most sources also generally agree that the prion that is the suspected transmission agent for BSE is very difficult to destroy. Because of this, the U.S. and Britain no longer allow cattle bone meal to be fed to cows. Briton does not allow the use of bone meal in agriculture either.

The controversial aspect really begins with the purported link of BSE to vCJD. The similarity of time and space of outbreaks of BSE in cattle and infections of vCJD in humans in England is reportedly a strong empirical relationship. There are also reportedly strong similarities in the suspected prion and symptoms in both diseases. Although most researchers appear to agree there is a link, some hold that the connection has not yet been proven. Even more controversial is the possible link of BSE to CJD and Alzheimer’s. Some suggest that a reported 9,000% increase in Alzheimer’s cases and reported misdiagnosis of CDJ as Alzheimer’s may indicate that BSE is already infecting people in this country. We have provided links to some informational web pages below so that you can begin to read about this and decide for yourself if humans can be infected with BSE, and to what extent.

But if humans can be infected, the next question is whether there is a mechanism for infection. If, as many claim, there is essentially no chance of cattle in the U.S. being BSE-infected, and all bone meal comes from U.S. cattle, then the answer clearly is that there is no risk. However, whether the U.S. is actually BSE-free is controversial. We have supplied links below for more information so that you can begin research to find the answer that you believe most. If you find that you believe the answer is that there is potential that BSE-infected cattle parts may be incorporated into bone meal, the answer as to whether vCJD infection could result from use of BSE-infected bone meal as a fertilizer is not known for certain.

A number of sources state there is concern for gardeners using BSE-infected bone meal. Some suggest that even though they believe the risk is extremely low, gardeners who are concerned should wear a mask and avoid bone meal exposure to open cuts. On the Dateline program, two doctors suggested there was a possible link to vCJD infections and the use of bone meal as a fertilizer in the home gardens of victims. They had no proof of the connection, but nevertheless suggested that it should not be used. So most of the available information suggests that there is a possible concern, but these concerns appear just antidotal. No studies are cited and no proof is given.

And although we found no studies regarding the risk of using BSE-infected bone meal as fertilizer, we did find one published paper that addresses the safety of fertilizer that is derived from acid treatment of bone meal. A report that was released through the European Union’s Health Consumer Protection Directorate-General specifically addressed the safety of dicalcium phosphate and tricalcium phosphate made from bovine bones and used as a fertilizer. These products are apparently made much as WSP is made from rock phosphate – by passing strong acid through bone meal to leach the phosphate from it. The resulting phosphate-rich acid is then used as a fertilizer. So the study concerns this end product, and not bone meal per se.

The report concluded that it is probably safe to use these bone-meal-derived phosphate fertilizers. However, at page 3, the report makes an interesting qualification. There, it states that “because of the longevity of the TSE agent protein (BSE protein) in soils, the risk of accumulation in the environment of possible residual risk is not completely excluded if applied in large quantities or repeatedly on a same area.” We are not exactly sure what that means, but it appears to say it is safe as long as you do not use it. Make of that what you will. The entire report is available at http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/ssc/out322_en.pdf

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Tnelz · Feb 16, 2014

leadsled said:
Cool and all good, reading comprehension does not come easy to everyone.
My point is attempting to communicate clearly

I make my best effort as well. Lol. And duely noted!

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

leadsled said:
There is a clean green certification for mmj.

According to the USDA, all of the fossilized seabird guano supplies are already exhausted. There are however some large reserves of fossilized bat guano left. Seabird guano can also contain up to 6% sodium.

Interesting..the demand for Cannabis might not help that if it's true. Check this page real quick
Reasons might be Seabirds are in danger...unrelated to guano harvesting. Most interesting is Peru seems to have thrown up some blocks to limit export. Apparently, they are the biggest users and in comparison export small amounts. Thinking on it..sustainable prolly isn't a good word to describe..especially if the guano has taken a long time to build up on the rocks..then having a boom as long ago as 170 years. Good look Lead.

Tnelz · Feb 16, 2014

Natural said:
+1 for Scott! yes he lays it out there pretty good..class act and entertaining if ya ask me..the shit he says just clicks the light on. I knew about the caves in Mexico..but failed to register the whole cave environment deal. lol

Straight shooter! Friggin president of a company and takes time to send samples awesome samples by the way and answers every email and phone call! Good dude who does great business!

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

Alright so far we have touched on..
animal blood and bone
manure (guanos and compost)
sea kelps
rock dusts
mined salt minerals (saudis biggest cash export even more than oil)
plant compost

Haven't spoken to fish hydrosolate..or even "fishnure" which would be a guano of sorts..yet a category all it's own...perhaps less a flower booster and more of a plant growth and beneficial organism enhancer. Which begs the question are not all organic plant foods bud boosters. I've always shyed away from boosters especially when I was into salts. Why would I want to mess with 30-34 per 1k with just fresh air? Nothing but worse product imvho. ..but if we're talking more swollen flowers and/or dense flowers...I guess we could tweak some parameters and add some goodies. I thinks a healthy plant and healthy root system and sustaining that is the best bloom boost around.

neverbreak · Feb 16, 2014

comfrey contains appreciable amounts of pk, especially k. as it has a long taproot, it's able to go deep into the soil to mine nutrients n minerals, which then end up in the leaves. u can make a liquid fert with the leaves or jus add them to a compost.

not sure how accurate the followin info is, i expect the ratios would change accordin to where the comfrey is actually grown, but i found this anyway..

Researchers in British Columbia analyzed the NPK (nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium) ratio of comfrey* and discovered that the leaves have a remarkable NPK ratio of 1.80-0.50-5.30.

* Air-dried powdered comfrey leaf tissues.

If you don’t think the NPK ratio of the dried leaves is impressive enough, you can also make a concentrated liquid fertilizer out of comfrey (see directions below) with an NPK ratio of about 8-2.60-20.50! (

neverbreak

leadsled · Feb 16, 2014

Insect poop.
Insect Frass, Another source of pk, low in N.

Natural said:
Interesting..the demand for Cannabis might not help that if it's true. Check this page real quick
Reasons might be Seabirds are in danger...unrelated to guano harvesting. Most interesting is Peru seems to have thrown up some blocks to limit export. Apparently, they are the biggest users and in comparison export small amounts. Thinking on it..sustainable prolly isn't a good word to describe..especially if the guano has taken a long time to build up on the rocks..then having a boom as long ago as 170 years. Good look Lead.

I agree. In addition there is a ton of information that is conflicting. Or one source is sustainable another is not, therefore it is assumed that all is bad.
Man that sucks ass. Seriously fucked up. The hype of how you need to pk boost out the ass does not help. Many cases it is screwing the whole balance up. "Toxic rescue growing" approach to things.

WalterWhiteFire · Feb 16, 2014

Langbenite.

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

WalterWhiteFire said:
Langbenite.

Sul-Po-Mag..interesting. Marine mineral deposit. I wonder if the application rates would be congruent with MgSulphate...foliar..drench. Or would the K roast em?

Theoneandonly Z · Feb 16, 2014

My insect grass is 2-2-2. All purpose?

A bit off subject but has anyone ever thought of jus maintaining overall plant health? Forget about big pk numbers and just kept a nice green happy plant. I dropped all boosters and kept a decent base. Lost 10-15% in yield but quality increased by 20%+... I feel pk boosts drown out qualities but up #'s... catch 22 I guess...

monkeymun · Feb 16, 2014

I once grew a shit ton of comfrey with the idea of using it as a fertilizer. Never got around to it, since moved and didn't take any of the plants with me and now have no idea whether it works well or not. The plants themselves grow gangbusters! Could get a decent harvest of leaves quite quickly.

Natural said:
Interesting..the demand for Cannabis might not help that if it's true. Check this page real quick
Reasons might be Seabirds are in danger...unrelated to guano harvesting. Most interesting is Peru seems to have thrown up some blocks to limit export. Apparently, they are the biggest users and in comparison export small amounts. Thinking on it..sustainable prolly isn't a good word to describe..especially if the guano has taken a long time to build up on the rocks..then having a boom as long ago as 170 years. Good look Lead.

Not to derail this thread, but your mention of seabirds being in danger reminded me of this.

Very sad. I really hope the harvesting of guano does not further impact the breeding sites of these birds, although I suspect it probably does.

Natural · Feb 16, 2014

monkeymun said:
I once grew a shit ton of comfrey with the idea of using it as a fertilizer. Never got around to it, since moved and didn't take any of the plants with me and now have no idea whether it works well or not. The plants themselves grow gangbusters! Could get a decent harvest of leaves quite quickly.

Not to derail this thread, but your mention of seabirds being in danger reminded me of this.

Very sad. I really hope the harvesting of guano does not further impact the breeding sites of these birds, although I suspect it probably does.

Ya man not sure how invasive the process is..been reading otherwise..but that could be misinfo.

caveman4.20 · Feb 17, 2014

leadsled said:
Insect poop.
Insect Frass, Another source of pk, low in N.

View attachment 379682

I agree. In addition there is a ton of information that is conflicting. Or one source is sustainable another is not, therefore it is assumed that all is bad.
Man that sucks ass. Seriously fucked up. The hype of how you need to pk boost out the ass does not help. Many cases it is screwing the whole balance up. "Toxic rescue growing" approach to things.

Insect frass WOW!
I have to use that ....thanks for all the priceless info thar analysis is intense.....selenium yum yum

Natural said:
Ya man not sure how invasive the process is..been reading otherwise..but that could be misinfo.

caveman4.20 · Feb 17, 2014

Very intense info very considerate , things we think about because we plan on growing untilwe die

caveman4.20 · Feb 17, 2014

I really like how the thread is going since the thread has this kind of attention I would like to know what you farmers think of this N-P-K ratios labeled on nutrients
Someone please correct me where I'm wrong, from how I understand the labeling goes as follows npk percentages are of instant availability from bottle:confused: and ingredients arelisted from most to least

So the part of npk brings up two questions from me 1 . after dilution and digestion of micrbiology how much more is available and is there hidden PK in stuff hidden until broken down and made "available"

I hope this makes sense if not I'll try to say it in a different way

Theoneandonly Z · Feb 17, 2014

Npk #s are ratios of only 3 elements in the solution. We know it takes 16 elements. These ratios are configured in parts/ppm. the numbers are a bit irrelevant because there is much more in a solution then npk. So when running a base, I stick to one companies program and tweek the feeding schedule to suit my needs. The ratios give a grower only an idea of what's in the solution.
I wish bottles were labeled with:
N-p-k-ca-mg-s

best organic pk booster

best organic pk booster

Tnelz

Natural

leadsled

GrowRU

leadsled

GrowRU

leadsled

GrowRU

Tnelz

Natural

Tnelz

Natural

neverbreak

leadsled

GrowRU

WalterWhiteFire

Natural

Theoneandonly Z

monkeymun

Natural

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

Theoneandonly Z

best organic pk booster

best organic pk booster

Tnelz

Natural

leadsled

GrowRU

leadsled

GrowRU

leadsled

GrowRU

Tnelz

Natural

Tnelz

Natural

neverbreak

leadsled

GrowRU

WalterWhiteFire

Natural

Theoneandonly Z

monkeymun

Natural

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

caveman4.20

Theoneandonly Z

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