best way to approach this cal mag deficiency

[cheech]

this is my first dedicated grow in coco. i started with very healthy plants in rapid rooters, then within days of being in the coco they started turning pale. i know it is cal/mag deficiency, but i need advise on the best way to approach it.

i flushed the cups, then fed them with 300 ppm h&g coco at 5.8 ph.. i have been foliar spraying them 4 ml per quart of cal mag plus every night for the last 3 days not ph adjusted.. probably 7 ph. the photos are of how they look today.

should i keep foliar spraying them, or should i just leave them be at this point and let the nute solution in the root zone take care of them?

i'm hoping once i re-pot them in 3 days to 2.5 gallon containers of coco pith/croutons already charged with cal mag they will rebound... the roots on them look great.. i know because i took 4 of the worst looking plants and washed the coco away to transplant in pro mix.. they were very full roots.

 

[FoCo]

You just arent feeding them enough.

 

[moejammin]

Tripling your ppm's is definately not the answer. Coco/coir in general "draws" calcium and magnesium hence your deficencies. You need to up the calcium your feeding the plants and magnesium wont hurt either I suggest cal-mag+. Besides the regular soil drench you are going to need to foliar feed these ladies back to health. I suggest 1ml of calmag per liter in conjunction with some sort of carbo like Sweet or SugarDaddy. The carbs will help to jump start the plants metabolism helping to get the calcium to where it needs to be. This is all from experience I had the exact same prob, Im in the midst of my second coco grow.

 

[cheech]

i have been foliar feeding them 3 ml per liter once a day for the last three days.. how often did you need to do this before they bounced back?

my concern is that they will go from a deficiency to an 'over dose'. they look much better than they did 3 days ago, i just don't want to over do it.

i'm thinking about taking all new clones and starting over, but if people think they can bounce back i'll keep at it. i just don't know because i've never experienced these problems in pro mix.

 

[altitudefarmer]

A transplant would be my first option. Solo cups are only good for a couple days to a week in my garden. The plants get rootbound quickly. However, I'm not overly experienced with coco, and I understand that coco requires a higher level of Mg and Cal, especially when using RO water.
However, if someone told you Cal/mag issues cannot be reversed, they were not completely right. A Calcium overdose will kill your girls slowly, and I've never seen or heard of anyone be able to stop it. Thankfully, cannabis loves her calcium and overdoses are not too common. Mg deficiencies are easily corrected with epsom salts, either foliar or add 2 tsp per gallon to your water on non-feeding days. I'd find a farmer with successful coco grows and follow their recipe. Sorry, I can't help much more that that. Will follow along, though, as I'd like to find out your solution. Peace

 

[cheech]

i was just checking them out and i noticed that the tops are looking healthy well the bottoms still look like shit. also, the new growth has a healthy stem that can be pinched. the old growths stem is hard and can not be pinched.. i don't mean pinched off, but pinched as in crushing the stem to slow down top growth in an attempt to get the lower nodes to branch out or catch up.

 

[Tesseract]

I think you need to stop everything that you are doing.

First off its not a root bound problem. Coco is not like soil. That plant can grow to be 3-4 times bigger in that cup no problem.

You have a nutrient or watering problem. Only time can fix this so you must lay off and practice patience. Only 1 foliar feed is necessary. You should also ph your solution in your foliar feeding down to at least 6.2 and use either de-chlorianted tap under 150 ppms and under or RO water (preferred) with a little of your Nitrogen heavy veg fert.
Make sure your solution is no more then 500 ppms and spray 30 minutes before your lights come on unless your using a product like penetrator (also recommended) or dish soap. Make sure to spray underneath the plant.

How often do you water? Make sure the coco dry's out between waterings and by dry I mean moist like a sponge.

What is your water like? Are you using tap or RO?

Any Beneficials?

They will take around a week to get back to normal so you must have patience. They will bounce back if you take it slow and give them what they need. I would never recommend a foliar feed more then once a week BTW.


T

 

[cheech]

i'm going to lay off the foliar feeding. i do need to let them dry out.. i would say they have been in beer cups for 10 days. they have only been able to dry out well 4 days ago, which is when i noticed they weren't looking too great.. i am using tap .2 ec. the root system is healthy and full, so when they get dry feet, i'll flush them with a 400 ppm 5.8 ph solution with some super thrive and hopefully they will continue towards improvement. time to busy myself outside the grow room before i do some serious damage :)

 

[Tesseract]

i'm going to lay off the foliar feeding. i do need to let them dry out.. i would say they have been in beer cups for 10 days. they have only been able to dry out well 4 days ago, which is when i noticed they weren't looking too great.. i am using tap .2 ec. the root system is healthy and full, so when they get dry feet, i'll flush them with a 400 ppm 5.8 ph solution with some super thrive and hopefully they will continue towards improvement. time to busy myself outside the grow room before i do some serious damage :)

It would be in your best interests to figure out how much cal/mag is in your tap already. My h20 from the tap is 150ppm (100 ppm of which are cal/mag). I take that into consideration when mixing the ferts. and use less cal/mag

You may need slightly more cal/mag being in coco but you wont know for sure because it is also based on the strain. It's also said that a deficiency can occur with water cooled lights. It's my first time in coco too and I am noticing that I use only around 1ml/gal more of cal/mag then my rockwool slabs. They are different strains though...

Hope this helps!

T

 

[Cheeseus]

Check Run Off.

Water heavy with ec 1.0 Fert + 5 - 10 ml/g cal-mg with run off @ 5.5 - 6.0ph.

Water when needed with solution until regular growth returns.

You should start to see normal growth fairly quickly.

Easy.:banana:

 

[FoCo]

You dont have to add Cal-Mag to the H&G coco nutes, they are called "Coco Nutes" because they are designed for use in coco and dont need anything added to them. In fact, its a complete myth that cal-mag is necessary when growing in coco... even the GH Maxi Series(which is designed to be a complete general use formula) works by itself in coco.

The problem is that you have these guys who dont even grow in coco going around telling everyone that they heard coco hogs Ca and Mg and that this is usually the problem in every garden.

Bullshit.

I'm telling you, buddy, your plants are just hungry and they need to be fed more. They look like they need N and not Mag... no idea why you are thinking that there is a Cal or Mag problem.

 

[FoCo]

Every problem in coco is not a cal/mag problem

All of these plants were grown in coco, and never got a single drop of cal-mag. The nutes you are using are designed for coco for a reason: so you dont have to add anything else!

 

[motherlode]

nice girls Foco - you using RO water?

 

[FoCo]

nice girls Foco - you using RO water?

The plants in pics 2,3,4, and 6 were grown using RO with no Cal-Mag. The rest were after a switch to tap to save money and I cant tell any difference...

Heres another one(just finishing the stretch in the pic) grown in plain brick coco, w/ RO water and GH Maxibloom only for its entire life. Pretty damn happy lookin plant if I do say so myself.

 

[motherlode]

very nice - your avatar is freaky as fuck - lol

 

[altitudefarmer]

Looks like great meds, there, Foco. Thanks for helping.

 

[Tesseract]

You dont have to add Cal-Mag to the H&G coco nutes, they are called "Coco Nutes" because they are designed for use in coco and dont need anything added to them. In fact, its a complete myth that cal-mag is necessary when growing in coco... even the GH Maxi Series(which is designed to be a complete general use formula) works by itself in coco.

The problem is that you have these guys who dont even grow in coco going around telling everyone that they heard coco hogs Ca and Mg and that this is usually the problem in every garden.

Bullshit.

I'm telling you, buddy, your plants are just hungry and they need to be fed more. They look like they need N and not Mag... no idea why you are thinking that there is a Cal or Mag problem.

please pay attention to the treads and words on posts. This happens all too much in these places:sick0026:

I simply stated that they "may" need extra cal/mag based on plenty of other coco growers recommendations, but it will always be dependent on the water quality, strain, methods, mixtures/ ect and to take nothing at face value as to the fact that everyones environment and situation is different.

No one here is stating that they are a master of coco, simply the opposite if you bothered to read through the posts.

Botanicare Pro Bloom has calcium and magnesium in it, but doesn't stop the fact that my plants require more.

It is true that a lot of people overstate the answer as being to much cal/mag, but your answer is not exactly correct either.

He was over saturating the medium as pointed out. No big deal, happens to all of us!

Yes it is due to a low dose of his mixture, which most likely IS causing a deficiency in N and Cal/mag. You can't forget that locking out certain Values will cause others to lock up as well. There is more then 1 reason as to why this is happening as clearly stated by the grower based on his techniques which you failed to point out.

The "myth" which is not really a myth, was popularized before specific coco nutrients came to be used and people were still using their older solutions and mixtures not specific for coco.

T

 

[antimatter]

I had to experiment with cal mag to see really how much I needed..I usually start out at 1 ml/gal than up it to 2ml/g while veggin than when they start getting big and bushy I may see some rusting so I up it to 5ml/g for the rest of the grow. I get calcium deficiencies first without cal mag and than magnesium deficiencies show up sometime after.

 

[FoCo]

please pay attention to the treads and words on posts. This happens all too much in these places:sick0026:

You're right, I didn't even bother to read all of your posts. I could tell halfway through the first one that you didn't know what you were talking about because you didn't recognize the problem instantly.

The link to your grow confirms this... nice clean room though... perhaps you should head over to the grow room set up section of the boards and hand out advice there.

Botanicare Pro Bloom has calcium and magnesium in it, but doesn't stop the fact that my plants require more.

Having never completed a grow in coco before, how would you know?

Try calculating how much Ca and Mg is in that 1mL/gal Cal-Mag you are adding compared to how much comes from the Pure Blend... you'll stop bothering to add Cal-Mag and realize how naive you actually sound.

He was over saturating the medium as pointed out.

Over saturating a container of coco with well established roots??? You really think that is the problem? Enough so to take a condescending tone with me?

:smoke

 

[Tesseract]

You're right, I didn't even bother to read all of your posts. I could tell halfway through the first one that you didn't know what you were talking about because you didn't recognize the problem instantly.

The link to your grow confirms this... nice clean room though... perhaps you should head over to the grow room set up section of the boards and hand out advice there.


Having never completed a grow in coco before, how would you know?

Try calculating how much Ca and Mg is in that 1mL/gal Cal-Mag you are adding compared to how much comes from the Pure Blend... you'll stop bothering to add Cal-Mag and realize how naive you actually sound.



Over saturating a container of coco with well established roots??? You really think that is the problem? Enough so to take a condescending tone with me?

:smoke

Considering everything in my first post was correct logic and pertained to helping our friend, I don't see how I was wrong. I don't take things at face value, so trying to get more prudent information is not only wise, but always helps if it's available. My hesitance on helping our friend was in his best interests.

If you wouldn't have been so ignorant, you would have realized my explanation in my second post, due to the fact that your assumptions about what I said was misinformed and skewed. I clearly stated opinion and he "may" need more cal/mag but clearly stated his problem was in fact, something different.

Yes this is MY first time in coco, but have build 5 rooms all dealing with coco growing for friends which I dedicate my time to learning. All have been successful so your logic is once again fouled.

If you would have read my thread, I clearly had a fucked up ph meter putting my solution @ 4.1 for a week. Do to the fact that my plants are strong, didn't kill them. I have since corrected the problem and my plants are nice and healthy.

It is incredibly ignorant and dumb to say that there is one way to grow. People will ALWAYS have different perimeters and variables. I have been using Botanicare for years and know my product. I did not need cal/mag in my old system with my Joeysweed Blue Apollos. They did great without it.

Cal/mags concentrations far outweigh Pro Blooms. Calcium alone is greater then 300% vs. pro bloom so
1/5th the recommended cal/mag dosage would result in 60% more calcium to the final solution. Remember, Boptanicare is not considered a "cannabis specific" fertilizer.
I am currently up to 2/ml of cal/mag per gallon. Why? because my plants need it jackass! How do I know this? I pay attention. Is it working? Yes! My plants are happy and LOVE the extra cal/mag I am adding. EVERY intelligent grower will state that everyones needs are different.

That basically makes your whole verbal diarrhea of a post null and void.

There are plenty of threads about rot and the fact that you CAN overwater the plant in coco. Why you would be no naive to think otherwise is beyond me. As stated, I thought it "MAY" be one of his problems, but was trying to fish for more info. He said he thought his medium might be over saturated, and being an adopter of less is more, and the fact that HE is the one taking care of his plants, could only come up with the logical reason to back off just a bit to make sure. Nothing wrong with taking precautions.


No I was not taking a condescending tone with you in my post so you are wrong once again. I clearly responded with my opinion on the matter and called you out on the fact that you misinterpreted my post. Maybe it's the fact that you didn't read it very well in the first place as admitted by yourself.

get off your ego because it is truly fat! Stop picking fights with people that are here to help. Instead of assuming something, have a logical debate on the issue and maybe we can find a solution to help a friend out.

Your plants may not need cal/mag, but mine certainly do. Is this the same for all coco growers? As clearly stated in my posts, no but it is for me.
Because of your ignorance, ego, and the fact that you don't read peoples posts clearly, yes I am now taking a condescending tone with you. If you don't read the information clearly and make a misinformed opinion on the matter altering peoples thoughts along the way, your going to get called out for it.

Did you bother to look at the post above yours? Antimatter seems to use it as well. I guess both of us are idiots to give our plants what THEY want.
T