BHO to a more refined product?

Ever after · Mar 22, 2013

i got a flat bottom beaker i just cant find the reflux aparatus that looks like yours grey wolf

Ohiofarmer · Mar 22, 2013

Dunge said:
Chemistry is a powerful technology.
Chemistry experimentation is dangerous.
Gloves and eye protection are good.
Fire and blast control can in some cases be useful.
Consume product cautiously.

LOL .........take it easy ever after lol

Ohiofarmer · Mar 22, 2013

Ever after said:
i got a flat bottom beaker i just cant find the reflux aparatus that looks like yours grey wolf

You can easily get them from a glass distributor online......take it easy

Graywolf · Mar 23, 2013

Ever after said:
i got a flat bottom beaker i just cant find the reflux aparatus that looks like yours grey wolf

The reflux condenser is an Allihn type condenser. Here are some on E-bay......

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311.R1&_nkw=allihn+condenser&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Ever after · Mar 24, 2013

yours DOES NOT HAVE A TOP CONNECTION IS THAT JUST AN ILLUION IN THE PICTURE ???? DOES YOURS HAVE THE TOP CONNECTION LIKE ALL OF THEM IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SILLY WATER COOLING PART EITHER

oh and if i go through with this how much oil should i have on hand like a pound of oil a half pound ? what 100 grams? 50 grams?

and how many gallons of the acid do i need is 1 or 2 or half a gallon good how long will half a gallon last me if i make 50 grams a year

can i use hydrocloric acid instead of sulfuric acid? there must be different chemical than sulfuric acid

and when i ment how many gallons of acid I MENT AA acid

does it need Acetic anhydride??? or acetic acid ?????????????????????????

squiggly · Mar 24, 2013

Ever after said:
can i use hydrocloric acid instead of sulfuric acid? there must be different chemical than sulfuric acid

Okay, first of all--please don't make 12 posts in a row. Condense them into one, maybe 2 if you need to come back to add something you forgot. You are able to edit messages after you post them for 30 minutes--use this function to add to your posts before making subsequent posts in the same thread.

I have merged your posts.

I'll answer your questions now:

1. No, you may not use hydrochloric acid. Sulfuric acid is much more powerful and that power is required for this reaction to take place. The acid must be concentrated. You may substitute with concentrated phosphoric acid if you like, but this is significantly more dangerous.

2. This reaction requires acetic annhydride which is a DEA controlled substance and will set off alarm bells if you attempt to purchase it without the proper credentials. This is a required material in the synthesis of heroin. I cannot stress this enough.

3. You need the amount of oil you would like to convert into the acetate formulation. I think that is pretty self-explanatory.

4. The condenser you need is an alihn condenser or a reflux condenser. In terms of "the top connection" you really need to educate yourself on the terminology involved in the glassware--otherwise none of us know what the hell you're talking about enough to help you get what you want.

Graywolf · Mar 24, 2013

The top female taper is internal.

The loading depends on the size of your boiling flask and I'm not sure I understand our question. Could you elaborate?

I agree with sticking with the H2S04.

Ever after said:
yours DOES NOT HAVE A TOP CONNECTION IS THAT JUST AN ILLUION IN THE PICTURE ???? DOES YOURS HAVE THE TOP CONNECTION LIKE ALL OF THEM IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SILLY WATER COOLING PART EITHER

oh and if i go through with this how much oil should i have on hand like a pound of oil a half pound ? what 100 grams? 50 grams?

and how many gallons of the acid do i need is 1 or 2 or half a gallon good how long will half a gallon last me if i make 50 grams a year

can i use hydrocloric acid instead of sulfuric acid? there must be different chemical than sulfuric acid

and when i ment how many gallons of acid I MENT AA acid

does it need Acetic anhydride??? or acetic acid ?????????????????????????

The top female taper is internal.

The loading depends on the size of your boiling flask and I'm not sure I understand our question. Could you elaborate?

I agree with sticking with the H2S04.

You can isomerize with sulfuric, but it requires Acetic Anhydride to make an acetate.

Ever after · Mar 24, 2013

you agree with sticking with sulfuric acid? wait what??? im confused so i cant use HCI because my friend will go to the hopsital if he gets exposed to too much sulfur so i want to make sure if im using H2So4 AKA SULFURIC ACID will using that acid not get my friend put in the hospital if he puts the hash in his food or blazes a joint with it i mean hes allergic to sulfur he says his parents grew weed in the 60's and they used a shitty sulfur burner and so thats why hes allergic so i just wanna know will the sulfur wash out because this dude accidently smoked a bud that had been sufur vaporized around alot in flower so it had a little residue and he got so sick we thought he was gonna die

squiggly · Mar 24, 2013

Ever after said:
you agree with sticking with sulfuric acid? wait what??? im confused so i cant use HCI because my friend will go to the hopsital if he gets exposed to too much sulfur so i want to make sure if im using H2So4 AKA SULFURIC ACID will using that acid not get my friend put in the hospital if he puts the hash in his food or blazes a joint with it i mean hes allergic to sulfur he says his parents grew weed in the 60's and they used a shitty sulfur burner and so thats why hes allergic so i just wanna know will the sulfur wash out because this dude accidently smoked a bud that had been sufur vaporized around alot in flower so it had a little residue and he got so sick we thought he was gonna die

Again.

You CAN NOT use HCl for this reaction. It will not work. It does not donate the hydrogen ion potential needed to cause the isomerization.

Not possible, end of story.

As I said, you can use phosphoric acid--but this will likely be more difficult to get and is orders of magnitude more dangerous and harder to handle, where concentrated sulfuric acid is already pretty damn dangerous.

Be careful using either.

As for removing the sulfur--your friend may be allergic to sulfur burners (SO2), but I assure you he is not allergic to sulfur. If he were, he would be quite dead or in a constant state of allergic reaction.

Sulfur is a necessary metabolic element for human biology. You flatly cannot live without it. It is about as ubiquitous as an element can be in the human body. Remember the most abundant required elements for life are CHNOPS.

When you quench this reaction SO2 WILL be generated--so your friend shouldn't be around for that part of the process.

It certainly is possible to remove all sulfur from this reaction after having run it, but I must say that I am skeptical as to your ability to do this to the satisfaction that your friend might require. It is not something you will have the facilities to confirm in any case.

Graywolf · Mar 25, 2013

Our biochemistry student is away consulting on tissue culture in Austria as we speak, but when he returns I will ask what alternatives he might have to H2SO4, or how he would recommend keeping SO2 out of the end product.

SO2 could be removed with an ionic resin column, which is one of the things Joe is experimenting with right now, to remove color pigments and lighten end product colors. So far it works well but is expensive and slow; which wouldn't necessarily be a problem working in small batches at low volumes.

squiggly · Mar 25, 2013

Graywolf said:
Our biochemistry student is away consulting on tissue culture in Austria as we speak, but when he returns I will ask what alternatives he might have to H2SO4, or how he would recommend keeping SO2 out of the end product.

SO2 could be removed with an ionic resin column, which is one of the things Joe is experimenting with right now, to remove color pigments and lighten end product colors. So far it works well but is expensive and slow; which wouldn't necessarily be a problem working in small batches at low volumes.

SO2 should mostly remove itself during a purge and after the quench. The problem is doing a proper purge.

Beyond this you can use bleach and other such stuff but the real question is why bother?

Isomerized oil is nice and all, but is it worth a potentially fatal allergic reaction? The answer is very clearly no.

Graywolf · Mar 26, 2013

squiggly said:
SO2 should mostly remove itself during a purge and after the quench. The problem is doing a proper purge.

Beyond this you can use bleach and other such stuff but the real question is why bother?

Isomerized oil is nice and all, but is it worth a potentially fatal allergic reaction? The answer is very clearly no.

I was looking at it from the standpoint of finding how low the SO2 could be reduced to with the ionic beds, but other simpler methods might be sufficient.

Your point is well taken that isomerizing to convert the CBD to THC is mostly a waste of time, because there is not that much CBD in most strains to start with, and if there is, it is usually at the cost of THC.

The plants produce CBD or THC from the same precursor, and genetics determine the ratios of each. As one goes up, the other goes down, and which is up is a function of what the strain was selectively bred for.

We isomerized one time, and it wasn't exciting enough to do again, as straight THC lacks character to its head effects without the presence of some CBD and CBN.

Cannabis acetate was, and has its sweet spot in the overall scheme of things. Everyone testing it thus far was enthusiastic about it.

Here is a picture of our isomerized experiment, along side a sample of the decarboxylated absolute that it was isomerized from, and a picture of the isomerized showing its consistency. The pockmarks are from sample taking.

I've also included a picture of an acetate.

Ever after · Mar 27, 2013

doesn't hash in general have its own sweet spot in the scheme of things

Ever after · Mar 29, 2013

how much AA is needed to be mixxed in with a cup of weed butter or coconut oil??
anyway im guessing you could clean the sullfer off the hash oil if you used a ultra sonic cleaner used for eye glasses

Graywolf · Mar 29, 2013

You can mix AA and oils at any ratio. We consider 100mg of oil a standard dose, and add about 30% coconut oil by weight to our HAO and HSO.

We also add other things, but that oil alone makes a 77% mixure, so one dose would be 130 mg. Ours is actually a 72% solution with the other ingredients, so it takes 140 mg to equal a 100 mg dose.

BHO to a more refined product?

BHO to a more refined product?

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