Big Budah Box/Vertical growing results

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

Hey everyone,

Seeing though there is a fair bit of hype going around about vertical grows, I thought i would ask the question what results are you getting ? How do they compare to supposed yields that the super closet big Buddha boxes are getting. ?
Does anyone own one of these systems and can they verify the 4-7lbs 2x600w and 7-10lbs 2x1000w ?

I would like to set a system up in the near future, I like the idea of vert growing and think it is the most efficient and economical way to go .

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

Me too, so I hung a bare thouie and wrapped a cylinder made of field fencing around it, 12 1/2' worth. That made a cylinder exactly four feet in diameter.

My dairy queen girls are two to three weeks in, and they're monsters. I'm converting the rest of my op to vertical.

My thread is 'oh my God, he turned it inside out!' In the Tree farming section

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

Hey ttystikk,

I have been reading and watching your grow with a lot of interest, I didn't want to jack your thread so I made one here.

I like your idea of using DWC to get quick growing and maximizing your yield from both styles at the same time on the trellis, it will be good when you get your final weigh in completed and we can get some perspective from your approach. I hope someone on here is running the NFT/"superponics" style for comparison or even to prove the supposed yields true/false....

I like the idea of getting potentially 10lbs from 2 bulbs ;)

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

mrsgreenbuds said:
Hey ttystikk,

I have been reading and watching your grow with a lot of interest, I didn't want to jack your thread so I made one here.

I like your idea of using DWC to get quick growing and maximizing your yield from both styles at the same time on the trellis, it will be good when you get your final weigh in completed and we can get some perspective from your approach. I hope someone on here is running the NFT/"superponics" style for comparison or even to prove the supposed yields true/false....

I like the idea of getting potentially 10lbs from 2 bulbs ;)

I don't need a scale to tell me I'm on the right track with vertical growing. These are some of the healthiest plants I've ever grown, compared to ScrOG they don't need shit for trimming or training to work in the vertical trellis, I never worry about whether my plants are getting too close to the bulb.

The plants I put in place were the best I had at the time, but they'd been trained for a standard canopy style trellis. So the first thing I asked the plants to do was to completely change their orientation to lighting, by ninety degrees. They've done well, but I'm pretty sure there are some overcrowding issues related to their history.

I rebuilt my whole veg with the idea of running vertical trees in RDWC. Now, every stage after rooted clones gets RDWC to grow the right roots, and instead of being topped, now they get either no training at all, or 'trained' to grow tall and lanky! That's the best shape for spreading out and filling in a big vertical trellis during stretch.

My first batch will likely get me about one apiece, or about four total. This is actually better than my recent horizontally trained minitrees. I've mentioned that my personal best in one 25 ft² trellis is 4, and that I think this is a number that can be hit in the same surface area vertically. So, that means potentially eight from one bulb inside a 50 ft² cylinder. I'll be installing three cylinders in that room, so theoretically, I'm in line for a 24lb harvest if everything were perfect. Nothing is ever perfect...

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

What I like to hear, I'm kinda bummed now I just forked out on my 5k 12site RDWC system. :(
Ah well, I'll just have to enjoy that for a least a run before switching vertical....

Do you think there is any difference comparing yours and NFT ? E.g numbers and plant numbers, time, turnover crops etc..

When I look at it, if the NFT yielded the same as RDWC, then you could potentially have more harvest and less effort from clone to harvest to turnover... Also more than likely slightly more cost effective and easier to run..

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

mrsgreenbuds said:
What I like to hear, I'm kinda bummed now I just forked out on my 5k 12site RDWC system. :(
Ah well, I'll just have to enjoy that for a least a run before switching vertical....

Do you think there is any difference comparing yours and NFT ? E.g numbers and plant numbers, time, turnover crops etc..

When I look at it, if the NFT yielded the same as RDWC, then you could potentially have more harvest and less effort from clone to harvest to turnover... Also more than likely slightly more cost effective and easier to run..

Why do you assume your RDWC is incompatible with a vertical growing setup? It's what I'm doing, and I see enormous potential in the combination.

You should explain your $5k 12 site RDWC to me in more detail, perhaps there is an easy way to marry the two techs.

What are you using for lighting? Do you have an upgrade budget? Going vert need not be expensive, it certainly wasn't for me.

I have zero experience with NFT, so I can't tell you. What I can tell you is that when all the parameters are met and the plants in the system are healthy, they grow like mad, lol. I'm growing trees to keep my plant count down- and because of that, I'm trying a growing method that's specifically geared to maximize big plants.

I'm running RDWC specifically because it's relatively low effort and very high return.

Since I run a tightly scheduled op with a complete veg system dedicated to delivering bloom ready plants, there is no down time between runs in my bloomroom. I consider that practice to put a serious dent in one's overall productivity, so I always advocate for growing plants in environments designed specifically for what they'll need for the next two weeks, not the next several months. I get a lot more out of my investment that way.

I'm very happy with the cost effectiveness of my vertical setup so far.

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

Hey,

Sorry my bad 5k = 5000w, Initially I wanted to do approx 4 trees RDWC with either 4 or 5 vert and or 4vert and 1 overhead.

My main reason for not going with my initial plan was space, I am only in a 9ftx11ft room. I figured that it would become too overcrowded in there with 9ft ceilings. So I decided to go horizontal with more units to get a nice canopy happening.

I had already paid for the lighting so i may as well use it... lol
it would be pretty hard to fit 5 cylinders in the room...... ;)

I understand you have plant limitations ''as do most ppl'' and i agree that RDWC can be the best producer, I just wanted to get as much input from as many ppl with varying set ups to create a wider knowledge in regards to performance..

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

There's absolutely no reason why your lights can't be repurposed to work vertically. You won't need whatever fixtures they're in, you'll just need a 15' vertical mogul socket and cord. Depending on the size of the cylinder, two thouies could work extremely well...

AND TURN THAT HIGH CEILING INTO GROWING SPACE YOU CAN MAKE MONEY ON.

My system would totally kick ass at using that vertical height. Think 75 ft² of trellis space and its just eight feet tall and only 3' 10" in diameter. That one would use three plants... a wider system would use more plants in a given cylinder and use two or even three thouies in it. It might be ideal for your room's unique shape.

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

Grrrr,
Thanks for the new headache man. lol
I over analyze everything as it is... hahaha
I feel like I have forked out way to much for this system as it is, and the other half is wanting results ASAP!! typical....
The thought of not using one of my thouies after just purchasing drives me bonkers.
I have to think, am i running 4 cylinders now or 2 double stacked??
How am i doubling them up with no cool tube? (don't like them)

Or, maybe i can double them, I got 8 autoflowers there i can run under the other 1000w.... lol

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

Depending on the size of cylinder chosen, you could use 2kW in each. Those are of course bigger, so you'd use two in that space.

The four cylinders with three panels each would be a tight fit, but would be a huge moneymaker once you get growing the plants to go in them down to a science.

That's the real limitation of vertical, the veg. Growers have to get the plant to be the right shape and size to fully take advantage of vertical setups or a lot of trellis space gets wasted.

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 17, 2013

How big do you think the cylinders for both are going to be to fit it in without getting to close to the plants and to get maximum yield ?

What would you suggest method for hanging 2 in 1 cylinder ?
I presume cords touching bulbs come into play...

ttystikk · Dec 17, 2013

9' x 11' is just enough for four vertical cylinders with their panels arranged portrait style, three panels around the circle with three tubs and three plants. 4' x 3 panels / pi = 3'10" wide by however long you want tall. I'm using 6'3" panels out of convenience, these would work well in your tall ceiling room. Conceivably, you could go a full 7'+ tall, but I think you might have veg issues. This is part of why my panel is the size it is.

Three panels per cylinder times 25 ft² per panel is 75 ft² per cylinder, times four cylinders is 300 ft² in a room with 99 total square feet of floor space. Use two 600W bulbs in each, or a thouie; I've designed a fixture and I'm nearly finished with a light mover to spread the light evenly inside the cylinder with no hot spots and the elimination of leaf shading. Between the fixture and reflective cards made to fit at the top and bottom of the unit, light will either travel directly to the trellis, or at most bounce once.

Such a trellis has the potential to deliver over two per panel, or six plus total every run if all parameters are satisfied, including properly vegged and shaped plants to install.

I realize the approach is regimented and involved, I'm trying to drive complexity out to the greatest extent possible. Repetition is taking its place...

No cords running past hot bulbs, either.

ttystikk · Dec 18, 2013

Another size option would be two cylinders with four upright panels each, these would be 6' tall and just over 5' in diameter;
4' x 4 panels = 16'/pi = 5'1"
25 ft² x 4 per cylinder x 2 cylinders = 200 ft²

Run two thouies in each of these.

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 18, 2013

So I'm thinking, I can run 4 with 4.5ft diam x 6ft cylinders 9-12plants, ''12 gives me 3 per cylinder'' my fear is lights burning the plants, I cant really hang a light mover. So i would have to hang from hook and adjust manually as the plant grows. Would this be a major issue for me in this set up ?

How long am i approx looking at vegging? I'm running Critcal Jack, So i assume I should get a decent amount of stretch from it.

ttystikk · Dec 18, 2013

Nothing with a 4x6' panel will make a circle 4.5' across. Three x 4' makes a circle 3'10".

Also, if your room is 9' wide, the combined diameters of cylinders in the room need to be at least a foot less than the room or you'll never get around in there.

If you had 600W bulbs, the 3'10" size would be perfect without a mover. I'm afraid a thouie might be too much- or it might not. I'm running a stationary thouie in mine (slightly wider at 12.5'/pi=4'), and the light burn I got was pretty minor.

The dual five foot wide cylinder approach would net less total square footage at 200 total, but the extra light to leaf distance will help guarantee there won't be any light burn. Construct this size by using 4 four wide panels around the circumference. 4x4=16'/pi=5'1". In these, I'd run two thouies. Eight plants total.

Veg is a beast, and likely the biggest obstacle to most. There simply is no getting around building a veg area dedicated to this kind of trellis; three stages, each lasting at least two weeks, all stages in RDWC, train them so they get tall, so don't top them. If they're busting out the top of a 6'6" tent when it's time to move them, congrats- you got it right! You could veg in the cylinders; IME, this leads to overcrowding but that may be strain related.

I'm hard at work trying out different approaches to the light mover. I'm getting closer to at least a prototype. These cylinders will only reach their full potential with light movers; using one eliminates the hot spot issue and simultaneously spreads the light evenly up and down its entire height. Therefore, it will be important going forward to have a good vertical light mover on the market for those who need them. Any ideas about who should build one? :cool:

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 18, 2013

So you saying that my 4.5' across cylinders won't have any heat issues once they have grown in?? ..... if I am willing to crawl under the trellis ;)

If i lose approx 2ft towards inwards growth with the 1-1.5ft be enough to prevent burning ?

I'm thinking that if i go with my original 12 site grow but just run them up the trellis i can attain the goal we're trying to achieve.....

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 18, 2013

I found a vid of the big buddah box, he states that he pulled 5lbs from 2 x 1000w, not the 7-10lbs they quote, but i am sure add co2 and tweak and you could maybe get 7???
here's the link:

ttystikk · Dec 18, 2013

Link broken, they don't like live links on the site. Copy n paste the url with some spaces in it.

ttystikk · Dec 18, 2013

mrsgreenbuds said:
So you saying that my 4.5' across cylinders won't have any heat issues once they have grown in?? ..... if I am willing to crawl under the trellis ;)

If i lose approx 2ft towards inwards growth with the 1-1.5ft be enough to prevent burning ?

I'm thinking that if i go with my original 12 site grow but just run them up the trellis i can attain the goal we're trying to achieve.....

4.5'x pi= 14'2" in circumference. You gonna do seven foot panels?

I still think the killer combo for vertical cylinders is light movers and I aim to prove it one way or another.

mrsgreenbuds · Dec 19, 2013

8

Yes 4.5' cir x pi , 6ft high panels, my res are 1.3' high and i want about the same at the top for my exhaust. Enough??

I agree moving the light is a very practical and more productive method, If i could i would be doing it as well....

Big Budah Box/Vertical growing results

Big Budah Box/Vertical growing results

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