Bizarre plant mutation...mosaic virus or...??

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

Howdy all.

I have had this ongoing problem in my veggers for about a year now and it seems to be spreading to my other strains.

From new clones, everything grows OK until the first transplant into medium pots. Then, the stems go purple and the tops start twisting and mutating and the plants basically stop growing. The roots remain healthy-looking and the plants won't die, they just don't grow until about a month plus then they start popping new shoots up.

It's as if they were already in 12/12 then the light cycle was changed back to 18/6 and they're trying to re-veg.

Once I put them into flower they seem to bounce back although some of the wierd twisted/mutated leaves will remain on the lower stems.

I have tried everything and I'm totally stumped. Flushing, spraying (no broad mites or other visible pests, even with a 300x scope), foliars, you name it. It only seems to affect certain strains. I'm thinkin it might be a virus, as I have signs of tobacco mosaic virus (i.e. mottled leafs and sideways twisting) on some other strains. It all started when I brought in some dirty clones from a local bank (thenursery.us ...avoid these people!! :( )

[Specs: Coco, House n Garden nutes plus compost tea, DTW]

Thanks much for any help.....

Swell · Feb 18, 2014

I would dump the moms and get new ones. From seed at that.
In my experience after a mom has been had a rough cloning session or three, the genetics can and do get weird. I personally like to keep 'fresh' mothers around, that haven't been hacked on and aren't over 6 months old.

If you take too many cuts off a mother without ample time for it heal and grow again, it stresses the hell out of the plant and reduce its vigor.

I agree with you that they look as though they've been revegged or something. (Due to the single bladed leaves and curling)

One suggestion i have is that you keep your mothers in larger pots, so they can continuously grow without becoming rootbound.

mastacheeser · Feb 18, 2014

def re veg
what kinda soil you putting them into

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

Mastacheeser, coco...like I said ;)

I don't think it's a mom issue. I don't usually do moms anyway...perpetual cloning. Which I've done for years without issue.

justanotherbozo · Feb 18, 2014

it looks like re-veg growth to me too, TMV displays differently than that too.

here's a link to a thread on TMV authored by oscar169 and in his thread you'll find a link to a site where you can get home test kits for relatively small money.

Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV) Testing @ Home In Minutes
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...irus-tmv-testing-home-in-minutes.59503/unread

peace, bozo

Natural · Feb 18, 2014

man..those babes went straight retard..are you clipping cuts from flipped plants..is your PH meter and calibration fluid 100% in check?

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

Natural said:
man..those babes went straight retard..are you clipping cuts from flipped plants..is your PH meter and calibration fluid 100% in check?

All meters checked at least every 2 weeks.

All cuts taken from plants in 18/6. I take em right before I put the plants into 12/12.

Natural · Feb 18, 2014

craziness...are the mom's happy when you take cuts. Sidenote..I now buy the small calibration fluids as they do go bad..and meters ability to calibrate do too. Safest to have some drop types to check it or add a spare meter. Other than that...might be genetic drift...caused by stress. Do your clones look near death after they get rooting?

Theoneandonly Z · Feb 18, 2014

if this problem is been ongoing for a year, i would consider switching a main component of your garden (medium, nutes, genetics, etc..) This is a very abnormal mutation, might be caused from some sort of stress. It does look like your plants are re-vegging but i know that is not the case. It could possibly be a deformity that is within the DNA of your plant. If a plant, such as a mom, goes under a certain amount of stress, it can alter the DNA and will be passed along with all the cuts you will take. So since this has been ongoing, and since you take fresh cuts from each cycle as the they go into flower and those plants your taking cuts from have dealt with similar signs of deformity, then it could be possible that your running cycles of damaged Genes. Which would explain why this keeps happening over and over agian.

I would pull in some other genetics or find new clones of the same strain if you choose.

How do you feed your coco? is there a chance of some lockout or nutrient doseage error?

mastacheeser · Feb 18, 2014

mastacheeser said:
def re veg
what kinda soil you putting them into

oops missed that

maybe switching your veg lights to 24 on will help

wobbly goblin · Feb 18, 2014

looks like something is messing with the plants hormones...
possibly ethylene gas off some source you installed a year ago?
some chemical those pots are treated with?
plastic lines off gassing?
try a few up canned into plastic pots to see if it's your pot and a couple up canned into a different medium to see if it's your coco and a few with different nutes
since several strains have the same issue thus ruling out degraded genes and i doubt it's tmv, it must be environmental
double check your timers

fwiw

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

Natural said:
craziness...are the mom's happy when you take cuts. Sidenote..I now buy the small calibration fluids as they do go bad..and meters ability to calibrate do too. Safest to have some drop types to check it or add a spare meter. Other than that...might be genetic drift...caused by stress. Do your clones look near death after they get rooting?

Moms look great. I really doubt it's pH...everything else is happy....

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

Theoneandonly Z said:
if this problem is been ongoing for a year, i would consider switching a main component of your garden (medium, nutes, genetics, etc..) This is a very abnormal mutation, might be caused from some sort of stress. It does look like your plants are re-vegging but i know that is not the case. It could possibly be a deformity that is within the DNA of your plant. ...

How do you feed your coco? is there a chance of some lockout or nutrient doseage error?

We got a Girl Scout Cookies strain about six-eight months back that was perfectly healthy and now it too is showing these symptoms.

We hand water (pump and hose) everything. I also thought it was some nute lockout but after flushing like crazy the probs remained.

mastagrowa · Feb 18, 2014

wobbly goblin said:
looks like something is messing with the plants hormones...
possibly ethylene gas off some source you installed a year ago?
some chemical those pots are treated with?
plastic lines off gassing?
try a few up canned into plastic pots to see if it's your pot and a couple up canned into a different medium to see if it's your coco and a few with different nutes
since several strains have the same issue thus ruling out degraded genes and i doubt it's tmv, it must be environmental
double check your timers

fwiw

Yeah I thought about that too, but we use old plastic pots that are washed pretty carefully...or new coco pots that are single-use. We switched brands of coco from Canna to Gold Label and now to Slacker, same story.

The timer thing could be it. Getting a new one today.

Skunkmasterflex · Feb 18, 2014

You ever think about keeping your mothers in soil and just using coco for bloom?

That looks like a stress problem. Either environmental or nutrient and the plant is just showing it that way.... almost like it slightly going into flower but your lights are on for to long for it to fully go into flower. Just as if it were re vegging like some mentioned earlier.

Before you do anything dramatic like trash them I would get some soil and use some of Caps nute packs and mix it into the soil and pick up some of Caps foliar and root packs and brew some teas.....foliar with it and water with it. I think if the plants are dialed in and healthy you won't see this problem anymore

mastagrowa · Feb 19, 2014

Skunkmasterflex said:
Before you do anything dramatic like trash them I would get some soil and use some of Caps nute packs and mix it into the soil and pick up some of Caps foliar and root packs and brew some teas.....foliar with it and water with it. I think if the plants are dialed in and healthy you won't see this problem anymore

Cool I have some Cap's on my shelf. I'll use it with the coco. How much you recommend per gal of coco?I brew compost tea constantly and do foliars with it as well...

ethnoman · Feb 19, 2014

I would hazard a guess that it hormonal, induced by some kind of stressor. Work out what the stressor is, alleviate it and I am fairly confident you will resolve the issue.

budm · Feb 19, 2014

Light leaks or defective timer? Definitely something causing the hormones to be switching between back to a vegetative state after thinking they were in a bloom mode

mastagrowa · Feb 19, 2014

I've been thinkin about our clones today. We have been using these cheapo plastic drinking cups to hold the newly-rooters for 1-2 weeks after they come outta the clone box. They generally look OK and do well. The probs always start 1-2 weeks after we transplant them into larger pots (the normal plastic 4" square pots...or 6" coco pots).

Could the mutations be caused by some sort of off-gassing from these plastic cups? Making sense to me if so...although the delayed onset of the problems kinda makes me wonder if...maybe not?

mastagrowa · Feb 19, 2014

budm said:
Light leaks or defective timer? Definitely something causing the hormones to be switching between back to a vegetative state after thinking they were in a bloom mode

Well hello Budm, there's a familiar name! ( OG refugee here ;) )

Yeah I suspect my fancy chinese multi-option timer may be at fault...I have it going off at 3am and back on at 9am to give em 18/6...never was in the room at those times so it's possible.....

Bizarre plant mutation...mosaic virus or...??

Bizarre plant mutation...mosaic virus or...??

mastagrowa

Swell

mastacheeser

mastagrowa

justanotherbozo

Natural

mastagrowa

Natural

Theoneandonly Z

mastacheeser

wobbly goblin

mastagrowa

mastagrowa

mastagrowa

Skunkmasterflex

Premium Member

mastagrowa

ethnoman

budm

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