bottled nutrients

[Lost]

Well, my husband went and bacterially dominated the veggie bed by rototilling the whole thing.

Interesting that you seem to make rather similar points about the studies Chalker-Scott used as she did.

However, the wood chips, are you saying that the rule outlined in TWM that says woody mulches promote fungal dominance are off..? Or simply that she's (Chalker-Scott) asserting that by solely using wood chips you will achieve inoculation of such fungal spores? I can't believe she would make that sort of assertion, I mean... really?

I would stay away from the woodchips. The tricoderma in your soil will break it down the wood (cellulose broken down with the enzyme cellulace), and from what I have learned this is not the direction youwant to tricodema going. I am still looking for the specific article that breaks down why its bad (something to do with the enzymes tricoderma expresses to feed cellulace vs chitinace (spelling)), but if you happen to have Maximun Yield May 2010, it talks a little about it.

Also tricoderma can be sensitive to clorine so if your watering an outside garden, a screw on filter that removes the clorine would be a good idea. I would expect the same for cloramine, and its slow release clorine and you may still have problems, and since you cannot see your soil biology... Better safe than sorry?


Off on a tangent, but compost teas are alot like effing with the biology in your hydro res. The bottom line is its impossible from looking at it to know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys (and what is really in there). I mean if you brew a compost tea up, how do you know you are getting th desired bacteria. You don't :(

 

[CT Guy]

I would stay away from the woodchips. The tricoderma in your soil will break it down the wood (cellulose broken down with the enzyme cellulace), and from what I have learned this is not the direction youwant to tricodema going. I am still looking for the specific article that breaks down why its bad (something to do with the enzymes tricoderma expresses to feed cellulace vs chitinace (spelling)), but if you happen to have Maximun Yield May 2010, it talks a little about it.

Also tricoderma can be sensitive to clorine so if your watering an outside garden, a screw on filter that removes the clorine would be a good idea. I would expect the same for cloramine, and its slow release clorine and you may still have problems, and since you cannot see your soil biology... Better safe than sorry?


Off on a tangent, but compost teas are alot like effing with the biology in your hydro res. The bottom line is its impossible from looking at it to know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys (and what is really in there). I mean if you brew a compost tea up, how do you know you are getting th desired bacteria. You don't :(

Lost-

Why is trichoderma a bad thing? The only negatives that I've heard associated with trichoderma is that they can inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. Could you please post some more information on this. I use wood chips to promote fungal growth all the time, and it makes up a significant portion of my compost pile for good reason.

As for the compost teas, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. We know the "good guys" are predominantly aerobic. E. coli, salmonella, and other pathogens are typically anaerobes or facultative anaerobes. By maintaining dissolved oxygen levels above 6 mg/l we are able to select for aerobic microbes, which is how we know the that the microbes we are making are beneficial.

In fact, I would say it's a more natural process than any over-the-counter biological product because we're creating a nutrient cycling or microbial loop in the brewer that's mimicking Mother Nature on a concentrated scale.

 

[ookiimata]

Ordered some Pro-Tekt last night based on your recommendation.

 

[CT Guy]

Ordered some Pro-Tekt last night based on your recommendation.

Great! Did you see what I was using in conjunction with it? Let me know if you have any questions and how your plants respond. I think they'll appreciate the silica. :)

 

[Lost]

Lost-

Why is trichoderma a bad thing? The only negatives that I've heard associated with trichoderma is that they can inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. Could you please post some more information on this. I use wood chips to promote fungal growth all the time, and it makes up a significant portion of my compost pile for good reason.

As for the compost teas, I would have to respectfully disagree with you. We know the "good guys" are predominantly aerobic. E. coli, salmonella, and other pathogens are typically anaerobes or facultative anaerobes. By maintaining dissolved oxygen levels above 6 mg/l we are able to select for aerobic microbes, which is how we know the that the microbes we are making are beneficial.

In fact, I would say it's a more natural process than any over-the-counter biological product because we're creating a nutrient cycling or microbial loop in the brewer that's mimicking Mother Nature on a concentrated scale.

Tricoderma are great!!!


Realize that they are a parasite tho (tricoderma). If it expressed the wrong enzymes such as a famine response, it will eat wahtevr it can. (Tricoderma actually take over the pathogens cell.) So you do not want the tricoderma expressing enzymes to break down woody things because it might attack you plant. I have never run in wood chips or sawdust so I have never seen it in action, but I have read about it. :)

 

[ookiimata]

I did see your other products. I added the Pro-Tekt to another order of some stuff I needed anyway, so I haven't gotten onto the simplicitea site to get the others yet.

My mom has been a master gardener for almost 20 years, and she relies on Miracle Grow soils that she heavily amends with composts and lots of home made mulches and pine straw mulches. I've looked through her shed in the past, and has she lots of various chemical nutes/boosters, but I've noticed that most of them are still sealed or almost unused. She has great flower gardens, but when I was a kid and we'd do veggies, we'd always have pests problems. I know now how we could have made healthier plants to avoid that. She's getting to an age that she needs lots of help in the garden, but I'm going to help her with an organic veggie garden this year and we're both excited. Hopefully we'll both end up learning from one another.

Sorry that's a bit off-topic, I just saw master gardeners mentioned and wanted to add my two-sense that they certainly aren't the "end-all be-all" when it comes to getting the healthiest veggies and biggest yields.

 

[CT Guy]

I did see your other products. I added the Pro-Tekt to another order of some stuff I needed anyway, so I haven't gotten onto the simplicitea site to get the others yet.

My mom has been a master gardener for almost 20 years, and she relies on Miracle Grow soils that she heavily amends with composts and lots of home made mulches and pine straw mulches. I've looked through her shed in the past, and has she lots of various chemical nutes/boosters, but I've noticed that most of them are still sealed or almost unused. She has great flower gardens, but when I was a kid and we'd do veggies, we'd always have pests problems. I know now how we could have made healthier plants to avoid that. She's getting to an age that she needs lots of help in the garden, but I'm going to help her with an organic veggie garden this year and we're both excited. Hopefully we'll both end up learning from one another.

Sorry that's a bit off-topic, I just saw master gardeners mentioned and wanted to add my two-sense that they certainly aren't the "end-all be-all" when it comes to getting the healthiest veggies and biggest yields.

Yeah, the Master Gardeners tend to just reflect whatever the local university extension office is putting out in regards to info. That being said, it's better than nothing, though I would love to see more of an emphasis on organics and getting away from products by companies like Scotts and Monsanto.

Let me know how those products work for you. I can only tell you what I'm doing and the research behind why I chose the amendments I did, but there's many ways to grow a plant, that's for sure!

Good luck!
CT

 

[CT Guy]

Thank you for posting the link, I really appreciate it. I've printed it out and will take a look at it later (today has been absolutely crazy at work!)

Cheers,
CT

 

[Seamaiden]

I did see your other products. I added the Pro-Tekt to another order of some stuff I needed anyway, so I haven't gotten onto the simplicitea site to get the others yet.

My mom has been a master gardener for almost 20 years, and she relies on Miracle Grow soils that she heavily amends with composts and lots of home made mulches and pine straw mulches. I've looked through her shed in the past, and has she lots of various chemical nutes/boosters, but I've noticed that most of them are still sealed or almost unused. She has great flower gardens, but when I was a kid and we'd do veggies, we'd always have pests problems. I know now how we could have made healthier plants to avoid that. She's getting to an age that she needs lots of help in the garden, but I'm going to help her with an organic veggie garden this year and we're both excited. Hopefully we'll both end up learning from one another.

Sorry that's a bit off-topic, I just saw master gardeners mentioned and wanted to add my two-sense that they certainly aren't the "end-all be-all" when it comes to getting the healthiest veggies and biggest yields.

Much appreciated, and good on your mom! Much of what's being discussed here are techniques that I apply everywhere on our property. We bought a brand new home in '05 and the land around the house had been stripped bare. Couple that with neither me nor my husband knowing a thing about landscaping and you end up using weeds for landscaping. I still do (hey, who needs to get rid of woolly mullein when it attracts all the same goldfinches and other seed-eating birds as purple thistle?).

I used to work for a woman who wears the label "Master Gardener", her mother and stepfather both wear the label, and I thought they were the end-all be-all in the gardening world. I think they still probably know a hell of a lot more than I do, that much is for sure.

Anyway, I wanted to say that what's being discussed here is stuff that I apply everywhere, not just to cannabis growing. I just went to the doc yesterday, I am peri-menopausal and he offered me hormone therapy (I get pretty bad "heat flashes" where I swear it's like the room is on FIGH-YAH!), and I turned him down (for now). Why? Because, we eat what we grow, I smoke what I grow, I use my urine for feeding and we're not only on a well, but on an engineered septic system which means that whatever I put into my body is going to end up right in my backyard, affecting every other living thing that's back there. At this moment, I can't bring myself to do it.

I think I'm starting to ramble, so I stop now.

 

[sky high]

This may be of interest to some....thought it >does< come in a bottle.....



more widely available from Safer Gro



All products labelled as "Promot MZM" are chocked-full of trichoderma.

great shit for clones....

happy farmin'!

s h

 

[CT Guy]

This may be of interest to some....thought it >does< come in a bottle.....



more widely available from Safer Gro



All products labelled as "Promot MZM" are chocked-full of trichoderma.

great shit for clones....

happy farmin'!

s h

Where does it say there's trichderma in there? I'd be more inclined to use a myco product in conjunction with seaweed over a trichoderma product for clones.

Feel free to post more info though, I'd love to hear more of your logic process on why you use/like this product!

 

[sky high]

The first link offers both the ingredients/source of the trichoderma is as well as the uses for the product.

I use it for the white, fuzzy roots.

I also use a myco product that includes kelp, leonardite/humics/trace mins/blahdeeblah!

As someone else said....put it (all) in there and let the plant sort out what it wants.

have fun, folks

s h

 

[CT Guy]

The first link offers both the ingredients/source of the trichoderma is as well as the uses for the product.

I use it for the white, fuzzy roots.

I also use a myco product that includes kelp, leonardite/humics/trace mins/blahdeeblah!

As someone else said....put it (all) in there and let the plant sort out what it wants.

have fun, folks

s h

That first link didn't actually list trichoderma as an ingredient, but rather as byproducts of the "fermentation process of trichoderma"

Studies have shown that mycorrhizal colonization to be inhibited by trichderma, and since it's important to get the myco started asap, I would think that you would want to limit trichoderma early on in a plant's life, until the myco is fully established.

 

[CT Guy]

The first link offers both the ingredients/source of the trichoderma is as well as the uses for the product.

I use it for the white, fuzzy roots.

I also use a myco product that includes kelp, leonardite/humics/trace mins/blahdeeblah!

As someone else said....put it (all) in there and let the plant sort out what it wants.

have fun, folks

s h

That first link didn't actually list trichoderma as an ingredient, but rather as byproducts of the "fermentation process of trichoderma"

Studies have shown that mycorrhizal colonization to be inhibited by trichderma, and since it's important to get the myco started asap, I would think that you would want to limit trichoderma early on in a plant's life, until the myco is fully established.

 

[Lost]

CT Guy - Im interested in what you have to say about the enod's and tricoderma not getting along. My favorite product is great white, but its really expensive, but the best of all the fungi packs I have tried. It has endos ectos and tricoderma, all in one. Like I said it works better than anything I have tried, :)

 

[CT Guy]

CT Guy - Im interested in what you have to say about the enod's and tricoderma not getting along. My favorite product is great white, but its really expensive, but the best of all the fungi packs I have tried. It has endos ectos and tricoderma, all in one. Like I said it works better than anything I have tried, :)

I've posted this is other threads, but almost all of the commercial mycorrhizal inoculants are coming from one source....mycorrhizal applications in grant's pass, OR. I know for a fact AN sources their myco there, as the sales rep for mycorrhizal applications told me straight up. They slap a fancy label on it and then charge 10x as much for it. Even fungi.com (Paul Stamet's company) gets their myco there, and he's the man when it comes to anything fungi or mushroom related.

Here's some examples on his site:


Or the Mycorrhizal Applications company itself:
(just get the endo)

Secondly, you don't need/want the ecto, as it has no relationship with cannabis, only the endo is beneficial.

I don't know why they insist on putting in trichoderma...

The only product I've seen that doesn't have the trichoderma (granted I haven't spent a ton of time on it) is from bioag.com. But I haven't tried it personally.
(scroll to last product on the page)

I'm still working my way through some myco samples I've gotten for free, and I have lbs. of the Soluble MAXX as well.

If I was buying it though, it would be from one of the 3 links I've posted above. I wouldn't waste the $ on any hydro store brand myco products personally.

 

[Lost]

Agreed, im trying to find something water soluable for my next run that is not insane expensive.

 

[GanjaGardener]

I've developed a three part system that incorporates fermented microbes, aerated teas and soluble organics. I've touched on the fermentation loop and facultative microbe exchange in previous posts. I use aerated teas w/ meals- crab, soybean, kelp etc. to breakdown the solids for improved nute dispersal throughout the root zone and for better uptake. (ie less work for the plant and root symbiants.) My use of soluble* organics, (*90% and above) has grown over the past year and now accounts for about 75% of my nutrient program.

Water soluble nutes = more accurate EC readings= more precise nute management.

There's a lot more soluble organics available today than there were a few years ago. Here's a sample of what I'm currently using for N-P-K both as a drench and for foliar :
Hydrolyzed Fish Powder Water-soluble 11% N, 0.25% P, 1.0% K.
Micronized Guano 0-8-1
Extremely fast acting high phosphorus, fossilized seabird guano that has been micronized to 1000 screen so that it is suitable for sprayers and other applications requiring a fine particle size. When placed in solution (and properly agitated) 98% will pass through a fine coffee filter.
Soft Rock Phosphate Powder (colloidal phosphate.) 20% P2O5 (3% immed) 20% Ca
Sulfate of Potash Ultrafines, Soluble 50% K, 17% sulfur

Solubles are mixed fresh- none of the suspension, crystallization, or preservative issues that liquid mnfrs need to deal with. They are also cost effective. A 50# bag of Sulfate of Potash costs $50. 1/2 tsp in a gallon has a EC reading of about 1600. I haven't figured out how many 1/2 tsp are in a 50# bag, but considering that a qt of Meta-K runs about $12, it doesn't take a lot of figuring to see the economic advantages of mixing your own rather than going the premixed, bottled nute route.

 

[mrbong73]

Bioag.com
Highly recommended.
I use it at the time of cloning. i.e. dip cut in rooting hormone then into straight VAM powder.( put a 1/4-1/2 tsp or so in a shot glass)
then into medium.
Also at time of transplant. I mix the powder with non clorinated water in a 2 gal bucket and dip the roots in the water. fully saturating the roots.
That's it. No need to use it again. The spores have to touch the roots to have any chance of colonization.
Cheers

 

[Seamaiden]

Ganja, I've spent some time questioning some friends of mine on how one might accurately measure organic molecules in a solution, and the final answer was that it can not be done in absence of some rather specialized and expensive lab equipment. To complicate matters further still, that equipment is limited by the type of molecule (not just organic versus inorganic) it can measure, and so one must not only know the types of molecules to be measured, one must have the appropriate equipment. They were all unequivocal in their assertions that organic molecules can not be measured accurately using EC.

I can see where something that we know can conduct electricity can be measured with any accuracy, but I can't see where, for instance, guano density, can be measured in solution by taking an EC measurement.

If you'd like to check veracity of these people, just contact me privately and I'll give you names.