Breeding for whorls

[geologic]

Twins...

 

[Sativied]

Following is one of the plants I used to test whether I could induce tri-whorling on laterals by topping and LST-ing the main stem (this one was topped). I flowered this one before it was mature, was about 5 inch tall under the T8 preveg setup, then put it together with the others in my flower closet. It's now in my living room, reusing it for a hermie test as well as comparing reg to tri bud. The tri-whorled branch on this one never got to alternate its nodes while still vegging/transitioning so is still whorled phyllotaxy.

Regular opposite, just below the main bud:

Tri-whorled, again just below the main bud. That one extra axillary bud seems to be the only 'extra' bud this branch will produce.

The top bud on the regular branch:

The top bud of the tri-whorled branch:

The plant has three regular main branches/colas, 1 tri-whorled. 1 bud on the reg branches is a little larger, 1 is about the same size, 1 is a little smaller. It may change after observing many more in flower, but so far my conclusion is that for the bud it's irrelevant whether they are regular or whorled. Size-wise that is :)

The buds do have a different phyllotaxy when it comes to the small fan leaves coming out of them. More specifically, the whorled buds on the P are more spiraled and the regular ones are more neatly opposite. That is however without taking alternating into account.

If I look at pics from older grows many buds seem to spiral as well once they alternate.

This post is related to a discussion here as well, click for more whorled thoughts :D
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/sport-hunting.56603/page-14#post-1304546

 

[FlyinJStable]

I cant get this out of my head bro, the plants, the grow, the way your set up is very clean, and the roots are CLEAN ASS, Clean.
This is why I enjoy the farm you and so many other home breeders with out of the box great grows. . . .I share when I can.
I hope Canappa little loompa Yeti (3 leaf) is a winner
You Rock
+++ Vibes FlyJ.

 

[Sativied]

^^Thanks for the compliments :happy:


Planned this for later this month but couldn't wait any longer so popping the 58-ish seeds of the P6 F2. This is 12 hours after a soaking in a cup with 83f tap water. Quite a few popped open, and (after tapping some down) they all sunk. I only need 49 but hope they will all germinate (I expect they will) so I can possible remove some early on (like least frosty seedlings etc).

My new 60-site bubbler for $6 (includes the rockwool :) ) Water level will be far below the rockwool so they don't suck full with water.

I look forward to having nearly 60 seedlings in there. Never popped so many at once. I need 49 for in my flower closer (7x7 plants). I expect half will be male, so 25 females which I will rearrange and spread out in 5x5. Maybe will get lucky and get 5x6 or even 6x6 females. Won't be 12/12 from seed, but won't veg very long either. Going to get an MH bulb (400watt) to use initially.

Additionally I'm going to pop some IH F1 again as backup seeds. The IH buds taste surprisingly good now they've been curing for a while. While they very quite different by structure, the IH#1 and IH#5 taste sweet and fresh rather than the dark danky ICE mom.

Was in Amsterdam last night, wanted to check out a shop before it gets closed some time next year, Baba. They have vaporizers from Evert ( www.de-verdamper.com ) on big tables and it's always busy there. Brought some of my P harvest, filled up a vaporizer and offered it to the tourists around the table. 5 minutes later all big smiles and giggly people :D Someone mentioned "woody"... vaporizers are great to test the taste and it's clearly more pine than pineapple. There's also a hint of the grapefruit/cannalope like taste in it. So my "tropical wood" description I posted earlier seems to fit.

 

[Sativied]

57 x P6-F2

2x Late Night

1x CHxCH

41 came up so far, checked a couple of the others and they popped so I expect to reach that 49 at the very least.

All normal at this point, as expected though.

The piney smell+taste from the chunk is dominant over the CH smell+taste. Seems all the P F1 has it, so I'm curious to see how these are. Also look forward to comparing frostiness level in a few days.

Will be working on the new flower hydro raft setup over the next couple of days.

 

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[Sativied]

100% germ rate. :) Too soon to check all, but I see a lot of "white", and it wouldn't surprise me if they all turn out sparkly. If some don't, those will go first.

I normally transplant them to netcups at this point but I don't have 60 sites in my small DWC boxes, so they're going to stay in here for a while longer. I expect they will variate soon because some will reach the water in the box they are in, others have roots that don't went straight down immediately. The idea of putting the tray on a small dwc box is to get the roots used to being soaked from the start (which they'd normally be if I had transplanted them to netcups as in the photos here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/breeding-for-whorls.63887/page-3#post-1284529 )

The weather is currently horrible, very unlike usual... nights with 48f instead of 60-70f and constantly rain/cloudy. Had to turn on the heating yesterday...in august... It's like it's fall already. It'll be a survival of the fittest run. Would be nice to end up with a high bud rot resistant strain as a side effect. Should have pics of my new flower setup tomorrow.

 

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Couple of literally "outstanding" seedlings. They stand out because of the white spots caused by the tric density.

 

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Looks like I won't be able to select on seedling-frostiness, they are more or less the same. I'm probably just going to pick the 49 with the best/most roots.

Glandular trichomes shot using a waterdrop as a lens :snaphappy: They all seems to start out as cloudy.

 

[geologic]

Very nice.

The cotyledons in some shots appear really thick;
is it just the angle, or--
???...

 

[Sativied]

They are thicker when they are so young, it's their original shape as they are in the seed, they flatten out over a day or two.

^^ taproot is in the green layer.

Still 'worked' by the way:

 

[Sativied]

S0 far so good:

I wish I had 20 or so more. Spaghetti roots vs fish bone roots. I want the latter, would be nice to be able to select those only.

Next time I need to build a small frame so the tray stays flat, it sort of sinks in in the middle, and bends outwards when I lift it.

It's working out as planned though. New roots that don't "grow up" sort of speak while in a nutrient solution 24hrs a day have a harder time adjusting. I also don't want to deviate too far from my usual methods (per 6 in a small dwc, already in netcups). Can't wait much longer though, else I won't be able to pull them out without damaging the roots.

Finishing up my new flower setup today. Still got 2 dozen of bottles to cut (top and bottom) and 48 net cups to fill. 48 because I'm going to use one site for chiller, pump, and meter tubes and cables.

 

[ByrneBurnham]

Was in Amsterdam last night, wanted to check out a shop before it gets closed some time next year, Baba. [/quote]

Wow......I remember the good ole days of stumbling around the 'Dam after visiting De Dampkring, Green House, Katsu and even Siberia ! ! ! ! And who can mention the 'Dam without mentioning Vondelpark ? GRIN. Thanks for the flashback ! ! ! But even moreso - THANK YOU for the very informative and eye-opening study on this plant I sometimes call "The Wife". This thread has far surpassed what Id call an experiment......its more like a case study on what I think a true scientist is ! !
Bravo

P.S. I also remember a psilocybin shop named Conscious Dreams....bthe Milkweg (sp?).... Breakfast consisting of nothing more than croissants with gouda and cumin seeds - oh and the flights serving paté on KLM Cityhopper out of Brussels. ..... didnt think my long term memory was that intact.

 

[Sativied]

Thanks BB :) I just love Amsterdam. I get homesick when I "leave" there, which I about every 6 weeks or so (50 mile drive for me). I've been to the Dampkring more than any other (the previous version mostly though). Nowadays when I go I always go to the 2e kamer (good coffee, feels like a classic coffeeshop, very small though) and to the Jolly Joker (for Bio Amnesia and temple balls). I also frequently go to Barney's because they have a volcano on every table and the cutest girls to explain how to use them. I also like the Doors (or is it the Doors Palace?) because it's one of the few places where you can have a beer and smoke at the same time.

Note the two that refuse to grow 'up'. Lightest green stems though, and have roots reaching the water.

My tap is 180ppm, instead of using that I used ro water, 150PPM AB (H&G AquaFlakes) and a bit of cannazym (which I always use in my unchilled dwc boxes).

Almost done with the flower setup, going to move the plants in it today. They started detecting each other and started to battle for light. I'd rather give them some more time under T8 to get some more leaves but can't wait any longer, roots are starting to entangle too.

Almost done yesterday when I realized the foam isn't 100% light proof, not even close. Doh... So more ummm... what do you call these... car window blankets... And when I finished that and put one bottle in it (see the net cup on the right) I realized that's not going to work either, the bottles are transparent and would light up. So, not done yet, need to cover the edges.

The green tubes on the right is to and from the chiller (outside my closet). On the left is another pump with a DIY venturi, haven't tested it yet. Will also drop some air stones in there (connected to air pump of course :) ). It'll all look a bit cleaner when the pots are in it, but like I said, low budget, only thing I had to buy was the pond liner and 49 bottles (which contain demi water, 0 ppm, which I use to dilute my tap initially).

Every time I remove a plant (like the males) I can fill the hole with a filled bottle reducing amount of required nutrient solution. It's now over three times larger than my rez (48 gallon instead of 14 or so).


Edit: could not find my phillips 400w agro bulb, had to buy a son t pia plus instead. Less suitable for vegging...

 

[geologic]

The green tubes on the right is to and from the chiller (outside my closet).

Looks like my computers...

 

[Sativied]

Looks like my computers...

Oh you got a water cooled computer?

4 down, 45 to go... added some more cables. pump for chiller, PH probe, temp probe, ppm probe (for meters on the outside). On the left is another water pump with the venturi air intake.

Dropped some nutes in one hole, took too long for the opposite hole to be refreshed, so I ended up cutting hole in the bottles... defeats their purpose partly ah well... better some entangled roots than dead roots.

The DIY venturi works. Just a piece of pvc pipe with a narrower part (heated and pulled together with a string). The narrow part has a hole to which a small air tube is attached. Noise from sucking in the air, unless... I connect an air pump. Super quiet now. And, blows in cool air from outside. Basically the narrow part in the pvc force the air and water together.

 

[geologic]

Oh you got a water cooled computer?
View attachment 435488

Not quite laboratory-clean like your hardware.

Living room pewter:

heat piped to garage;


Office pewter--

heat piped to back porch...

 

[Sativied]

Now that is cool :cool: If I had my own place (renting...) I'd definitely have tubes going through the wall :D

9 to go...

The CHxCH and one of the Late Night looks too good to not include, and got two sites unused for the chiller and adjusting ph and nutes, so will be 46 P6-F2. Keeping 10 of the remaining as backup.

 

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Only 1 to go...Ditching the rest once these all adapted. 27 hours later than previous picture, notice the difference in size of the back rows compared to the previous pic, but also the difference amongst the plants. As seedlings they were all very similar in size, took me so long to get them all in that the first ones are slightly larger now.

Instead of the plates floating on the water there's a couple of inches of air, it's an SWC (shallow...) instead of floating hydro raft. I dropped an air stone in the site in which the returning end of the chiller is (bottom left tube). Water smells fresh still, so far so good...

 

[Sativied]

25 hours after previous picture:

10 hours later again:

I put the smaller ones in the middle because it's a little lower there (i.e. closer to nute level), about a quarter inch, and most of the smaller ones are the ones that had less long and less amount of roots before transplanting.

For example, a small one, will take off soon:

Roots from larger seedlings:

Although it seems to work so far, I'm not entirely happy. Normally I preveg a little longer under T8, keeps them tight and strong.