Bucket/tank Thread

[Jalisco Kid]

If you had ALL the roots in water completely submerged you could not get root aphids or fungus gnats.

score.

Wrong on the RA I have seen them live in rez'z. They might eat underwater but they are being transported everywhere and will kill the plants.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Wrong on the RA I have seen them live in rez'z

If by "my airlines" u mean alitas air lines, then that was me. I spoke extensively to the rep at Alita and visited their shop, the rep told me u need 3ft of water pressure to make micro bubbles if u can only generate regular bubbles like an airstone can, there is no need to pay so much for that hose material. I bought some latex hose and added holes, worked jus fine ohh and i can report that their was no slime build up either after 10weeks w/o cleaning them.
Confu...

We get them from the same source in asia. They (alita) do not play with their toys. You hook them up to one of my regen blowers, they work just fine. Their value is they do not need to be seen until harvest. JK

 

[Jalisco Kid]

yo dank, those alitas hoses r slick but dont work in our application, i spent alot of time researching them, call and speak to Tony, super smart dude runs the show over there( i know i went to there whaREHOUSE) bottom line is they need at least 3 ft of water pressure to creat micro bubbles(assuming u have the right size air pump per foot of hose) so i u cant replicate micro bubbles, there alot cheaper defussers to be had.

Confu.

That is not a healthy root system if those roots belong to the plant shown with the stalk (post 22). when I remove a plant from my veg tanks it takes 2 people one to control the plant and one to gather up and hold the roots

 

[Capulator]

Wrong on the RA I have seen them live in rez'z. They might eat underwater but they are being transported everywhere and will kill the plants.

I have seen them in the buckets too but not underwater.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I have seen them in the buckets too but not underwater.

The water transports them to healthy plants, they feed on more then the roots.

 

[Capulator]

The water transports them to healthy plants, they feed on more then the roots.

Right but what if you only had submerged plants? At least when they are above the soil level they are easy to treat. It's when they are colonizing on the roots that they are a PITA. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this..

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Here is the bucket design love to hear what people think

View attachment 283373View attachment 283373

I just realized this is a thread I started, been real crazy around my canton. Tell me why you figure this is better then a chow mix. (from your earlier question/statement) Is this a 14 in a 14 gal. If so whats your thinking there? What are you telling me with 2" from bottom bucket to top bucket, is that the spacing between them? Fuck the drip tube they are a weakpoint that is not needed. Does left side comment mean there is 3" of total water depth?I would drain min 1 1/4" into a 2 1/2" to a 3" Killer Sunset right now. JK

 

[Jalisco Kid]

K bucket is referring to Krusty bucket. Ima draw up a diagram of a modified hempy I had I wanna see what people think.

I'm an avid chow mix user but I think perlite can out perform it. There just way more air available to the roots. Most commercial bato buckets use perlite as the medium of choice.

What would you say is better than perlite JK (medium wise I'm not talking aero or DWC). I always like your input.

Cap I love that idea haha. Most DWC guys dnt have roots growin in their tiny air gap so why have it unless your trying not to water log your medium, which is pretty much impossible with rocks. If your water is at saturated DO I dnt see the need for a little aero zone

I have always preferred chow over perlite, I have never known a productive grower who has kept with perlite. I have known well known growers who have gotten crown rot in lava. Even in my GM 500's.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Right but what if you only had submerged plants? At least when they are above the soil level they are easy to treat. It's when they are colonizing on the roots that they are a PITA. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this..

In my GM 3000's I have 8" above the water line in 70/30 chow and that is enough to stop with the topfeed once roots hit the water. roots from these when harvested will fill up a 7.5 gal container full.
Clean your room and throw away your old pipe and quarantine your plants for 2.5 months. Forget about pests, enter clean and stay away from other grow places and hydro stores. I only got a bug problem when I let my apprentice run it full time. His second round he had the plague. Only thing that changed was him. JK

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Bump.
Gearing up soon for round 2 of my ghetto bucket system.
Topdrip into 75% hydroton chow mix, in a redi-roots aeration frame. Suspended in lid of 27 gal home depot tote. Irrigated every half hour or so. Runoff pools in bottom of tote.Drain height creates a 1.5" layer of water at the bottom of the tote. Shallow water layer gets turned over as the 20% runoff runs off. Cap's bennies are used in teas. I topdressed with some Azomite and earthworm castings in veg. High P guano tea applied periodically during flower.

I am thinking I will rock a deeper water layer this time coming up here. As deep as I can get it and still have at least a 1/2" air gap between the aeration frames(the skeletonized netpots).
I will move progressively towards dwc bottom layer instead of swc.
Still getting my 20% runoff per irrigation.
Topdrip reliability and pathogen resistance, dwc performance once the roots hit the water.
Cheap, easy, tolerates irrigation temps in the high 70s(not ideal, but it happens if you are high or broke or both)
Also tolerates organic inputs awesomely.

So I screwed up and turned the room lights on 5 mins early one day, forgot to set the timer governing the trigger cables to the lighting controller back to auto instead on on. So the 12 hour night was 12 hours of light with no irrigation.
Anyways, the swc layer kept them going, they handled it like champs.
So in a way more inherent reliability than say a bunch of smart pots on tables.

I think I will stick with this system, or an improved version component-wise, for the rest of my career.
Next run after this one I am about to start will use 1 7 gal frame per tote instead of 2 3 gal frames per tote.
Kind of wanted to see what impact sharing the swc layer would have, see if I could get away with multiple specimens per tote.

Oh yeah I think I will get some Alita Silicone Rubber Diffuser hose for air this coming run.

I would get rid of your drip ring on one plant and add larger pipe/hose so you can run more nutes by quicker. It looks like I see bubbles in one tank. if thats your aeration I see problems trying to grow trees. JK

 

[Capulator]

In my GM 3000's I have 8" above the water line in 70/30 chow and that is enough to stop with the topfeed once roots hit the water. roots from these when harvested will fill up a 7.5 gal container full.
Clean your room and throw away your old pipe and quarantine your plants for 2.5 months. Forget about pests, enter clean and stay away from other grow places and hydro stores. I only got a bug problem when I let my apprentice run it full time. His second round he had the plague. Only thing that changed was him. JK

LOL I don't have bugs.... I just was thinking of the principle. roots in the aerated solution. If half the roots are in it, why not all the roots. The media becomes pointless, other than holding up the plant. Pumice doesn't hold water very well, but it does have pores which hold air.. My best run of my life was a 24/7 drip over lava. You can't over water with just rocks.

If you had solution with no dissolved oxygen then yes you woudl kill the plants... but with things like regen blowers I don't see a lack of oxygen being a problem and like I said if half the roots thrive in the bucket, why not all of the roots?

thoughts?

 

[kushtrees]

I've always wondered why people dnt submerge rocks, it's impossible to over water em. As long as you have saturated DO it should be good theoretically.

As far as perlite goes I'm thinking 50/50 perlite/ growstones. More air still good capillary action. Plus a layer of diatomite on top to help prevent algae and bugs. Chow is great but coco is inconsistent and rinsing hydroton is the worst thing ever. It's a great medium but a bitch to prep. I'm considering do chow with peat and grow stones.

Growstones look cool and Im sick of hydroton

 

[dankworth]

I would get rid of your drip ring on one plant and add larger pipe/hose so you can run more nutes by quicker. It looks like I see bubbles in one tank. if thats your aeration I see problems trying to grow trees. JK

That system was built while I was recovering from being extremely sick, with severe budget restraints. Sucked. Fought RAs, handwatered the plants for a long time until I could halfass together drip manifolds, etc. Would have preferred way more air to the buckets. Was too broke to add more air. Was driving deck screws with one hand while holding my fucked up intestines with the other hand at the time.
Given that this system is drain-to-waste, it has limits on irrigation to avoid getting more than 20% runoff.
Would in many ways prefer recirc so I could flow more nute solution past the roots. DTW I believe offers improvements in pathogen resistance vs recirc. I did not have a chiller for nutes, or the ceiling height even to allow for correct drainage for a recirc gig. That and I did not want to spread any root problems to others in case one plant or more took a shit.
I wanted to get away from the whole 1 oz of production per 1 gallon of medium limitation for starters.
Planning on running 1 commercial air 5 per 2 or 3 totes later, tuning irrigation so it runs a small amount every 15 minutes if possible. So there is a constant small drip of runoff out the bottom of the bucket.
This system was like a "what can I put together while sick and broke" thing. Not to sound like I am making a bunch of excuses(which I am), but it was really suboptimal due to circumstances.

JK, do you have any insights to offer on dtw vs recirc as far as pathogen resistance/root rot goes? Recirc systems seem more fraught with peril vs dtw, judging from the experiences of others.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I've always wondered why people dnt submerge rocks, it's impossible to over water em. As long as you have saturated DO it should be good theoretically.

As far as perlite goes I'm thinking 50/50 perlite/ growstones. More air still good capillary action. Plus a layer of diatomite on top to help prevent algae and bugs. Chow is great but coco is inconsistent and rinsing hydroton is the worst thing ever. It's a great medium but a bitch to prep. I'm considering do chow with peat and grow stones.

Growstones look cool and Im sick of hydroton

I would recycle the chow to someone else.If perlite came in golf ball size I would try a run with it.JK

 

[Jalisco Kid]

That system was built while I was recovering from being extremely sick, with severe budget restraints. Sucked. Fought RAs, handwatered the plants for a long time until I could halfass together drip manifolds, etc. Would have preferred way more air to the buckets. Was too broke to add more air. Was driving deck screws with one hand while holding my fucked up intestines with the other hand at the time.
Given that this system is drain-to-waste, it has limits on irrigation to avoid getting more than 20% runoff.
Would in many ways prefer recirc so I could flow more nute solution past the roots. DTW I believe offers improvements in pathogen resistance vs recirc. I did not have a chiller for nutes, or the ceiling height even to allow for correct drainage for a recirc gig. That and I did not want to spread any root problems to others in case one plant or more took a shit.
I wanted to get away from the whole 1 oz of production per 1 gallon of medium limitation for starters.
Planning on running 1 commercial air 5 per 2 or 3 totes later, tuning irrigation so it runs a small amount every 15 minutes if possible. So there is a constant small drip of runoff out the bottom of the bucket.
This system was like a "what can I put together while sick and broke" thing. Not to sound like I am making a bunch of excuses(which I am), but it was really suboptimal due to circumstances.

JK, do you have any insights to offer on dtw vs recirc as far as pathogen resistance/root rot goes? Recirc systems seem more fraught with peril vs dtw, judging from the experiences of others.

If you use protective bennies your roots should be fine. If you keep your system clean you would not have problems. If you can not deal with a clean system I would run large containers of chow and dtw. These systems are being run in places like Vietnam, so it is possible. JK

 

[kuz]

I'm back to ebb and flow. Five gallon cloth pot, Grow Roks, 2 gallon reservoir, no air pump at all. Get some slime growing on outside of pots but it doesnt seem to bother anything. Use protective bennies, fulvic, kelp, and some tea. I'm a little concerned having the worm bin in the house, thing is full of bugs. Never worry about root issues. I need to find a way to recycle the Grow Roks, too much of a hassle hauling to the trash.

 

[Pancho-N-Lefty]

A bit off topic but you asked that I post it somewheres like your bucket thread so here ya go JK...
After seeing your latest post about the room setup and trees layout, i figured I would hit u with some specifics as its been bothering the f outa me to figure out the best use to my situation.
I built a 12x12x7.5
I could in the future bump that upp to a 12x14x10-14 if i need to.
Should I just run bare bulbs virt style? or should I run vented hoods?
I live in the PNW so its cold most the year but it gets hot a few times in the summer(110 tops maybe 1-3x)
I try to use a perpetual cycle of every 2 month harvest. I curently SCROG horizontal.
I also use CHOW, but really want to try something like your buckets or dank's hater bucket system.
I have no environmental controls yet. based on how i set this up will determine what i get .
Money is a factor but I am planing on making this and the next harvest an investment for the future.
I have a 50 amp and a 30 amp 240 to allow for vege and flower with plenty of 110 for ancillary equipment.

I have been thinking about geting Gavita pros and off-setting those with virtical MH with dual spec like Dank for the UVB finish or just straight virt all a round.

Thanks

PnL

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I

A bit off topic but you asked that I post it somewheres like your bucket thread so here ya go JK...
After seeing your latest post about the room setup and trees layout, i figured I would hit u with some specifics as its been bothering the f outa me to figure out the best use to my situation.
I built a 12x12x7.5
I could in the future bump that upp to a 12x14x10-14 if i need to.
Should I just run bare bulbs virt style? or should I run vented hoods?
I live in the PNW so its cold most the year but it gets hot a few times in the summer(110 tops maybe 1-3x)
I try to use a perpetual cycle of every 2 month harvest. I curently SCROG horizontal.
I also use CHOW, but really want to try something like your buckets or dank's hater bucket system.
I have no environmental controls yet. based on how i set this up will determine what i get .
Money is a factor but I am planing on making this and the next harvest an investment for the future.
I have a 50 amp and a 30 amp 240 to allow for vege and flower with plenty of 110 for ancillary equipment.

I have been thinking about geting Gavita pros and off-setting those with virtical MH with dual spec like Dank for the UVB finish or just straight virt all a round.

Thanks

PnL

Do not know how I missed this post, I just ran across this thread looking for another. I hope I got back to you in a pm. So its been a while what did you end up doing. Suerte JK

 

[Pancho-N-Lefty]

Oh brother no worries. I had to go a whole new direction.
currently running DWC and in progress to make RDWC.
Using grow stones and hydroton as medium and the only soil-less type mix i have is from transplanting
into coco in solo cups as they come out of clone. I am re-thinkinng that as well and just using moms and going from cloner strait to the DWC vege area.
In a temporary spot as well as I had to move from my old shop. So I am now limited on my amps and everything.
The only great thing is my water source is like RO water so I dont have to do anything to it ...+ 4 me.
Running Raptors but still wonder about the Gavitas; however I am starting to rethink the whole industry and realizing 90% of it is marketing BS. So I have been trying to run things on a minimalist grass roots type system.
I pulled my largest crop even after moving and light dep on and off and being beaten and broken and neglected like none other. So any other thoughts or guidance on what to do next or where to take it next would be awesome. 5gal buckets into 28gal for final containers for now. i know somme of your systems are alot larger but for 2# scog bushes thats about all I think I need, less u say anything to the contrary.

Thanks for your response JK!

PnL

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I have seen no larger harvest in tanks larger then 36 gal. I tell all that. A larger tank can offer an ease and improve plant health though. JK
Someone at one time thought they should use my 340 gal tanks for outdoor grow. I would have liked to see that. I would have hated to have been the person trying to get the root ball out of it.