Can Anybody Tell Me What This Is?

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Minitiger

Minitiger

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Planted 15 seeds (5x each of Bodhi's Apollo 11 f4 open pollination, Goldstar f4's and Prayer Towers) on October 23. Seeds were planted directly into Lumperdagz mix (equal parts peat, EWC and pumice with added amendments ((sorry, @Bulldog11 I know I said I'd start them in the 60/40 peat/EWC mix, but I decided against that, can't remember why haha))) and all of them were above ground within four days. A week later, I planted three Clusterfunks, which were also above ground within four days.

The soil I used was a 2:1 ratio of a batch of Lumperdawgz that I had "cooking" for four months and a batch I had cooking for about six weeks. Same mix, though. Seeds were planted in those little three inch "starter pots" and placed directly under my Apache AT600 at a distance of about forty inches. I let the seedlings grow under the light at 40 inches above the seedlings for about a week, then slowly moved the light down to about 28 inches over the course of about another week.

Everything looked really good until five or six days ago. The Prayer Towers were the first to show whatever it is that's going on on the the picture I've attached. Then about two nights ago, every other plant started looking like this.

Temps in SoCal have been fluctuating all over the place. Outdoors, highs during the daytime (lights off in my tent) have been anywhere between 65 and 90. Nighttime temps outdoors (lights on) have been between 60 and 45, so it's been difficult to maintain a consistent temperature inside my tent. They've been between 84 at their highest during lights on and 61 during lights off in the tent (yeah, I realize that 61 is waaaaaaayyyyy too low). Also have to mention that twice, about ten days apart, I forgot that I left the AC vents open in the grow room and accidentally let the temps inside the tent get up to 94 because I had the heat on (I know, I fucked up.... haha!). But they only stayed at 94 for maybe a few hours, closed the vents and got the temps down to an acceptable level for at least eight hours before lights off. It's not like they were sitting in the tent for 16 hours at 95 degrees.

Humidity has been the biggest problem. I can't get it under control. It's been extremely dry here in SoCal lately and the humidity levels in my tent have been ranging between 15% and 40%. Occasionally the humidity gets up around 50 or 54%, but that's rare. Mostly, they're hovering around 30 - 35% I have two humidifiers in the room outside of the tent, plus a bucket of water with a towel halfway submerged inside the tent, but nothing seems to be working.

Been watering with RO water (ppm's around 18) and also watered them twice with an AACT of 1.5 cups of EWC (Agrowin) and .3 cups of molasses in four gallons of water, brewed for around 34 hours using microbeman's brewer. The AACT waterings were about ten days apart. Foliared them thirty minutes before lights off with an extremely light combination of aloe, potassium silicate and neem last Friday, November 13. Other than that, it's just been RO water when they seem to need it. I may have under-watered them initially, but straightened that out last week.

Sorry for the long-winded intro, just wanted to provide as much info as I can. I'm almost positive that it has something to do with the humidity, but maybe it's something else. I dunno. Obviously haha. I read somewhere a while ago that low humidity levels can affect a plant's ability to uptake potassium, maybe? Or maybe it's a calcium issue? Can't remember offhand.

I'm starting to stress. If anybody has any idea what this is, I'm all fucking ears haha.
 
Can anybody tell me what this is
Minitiger

Minitiger

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Also wanted to mention that all of the plants have unbelievable tight internodes. Most are on their fifth or sixth node (hard to tell because they're so tight), growing five- and seven-blade leaves, but they're only like six inches tall. Maybe seven inches. Roots are starting to peak out of the bottom of most of the starter pots, gonna transplant them to half-gallons tomorrow or Friday. I'll give them a little OG Biowar then, hopefully that will help. Maybe?
 
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Minitiger

Minitiger

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Potassium, yeah, that's what I was thinking. But at the same time, I thought that the K Silicate would help.

Manganese? Didn't even consider it. Haven't read anything about manganese deficiencies. But I will now.

How do you think I could go about correcting either or both of those issues, if that is the problem? And do you think that the humidity is making it difficult/impossible for the roots to absorb the available K that's in the soil?

Also considered some fulvic/humic acids. Would that be beneficial, do you think? I don't want to overreact and go all crazy, but I also don't wanna fuck this up haha.

Thanks for responding!
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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Also, the yellowing didn't really start like the pictures of the Mn deficiency you posted. It was more of an "outer leaf moving in" type of thing. In those pictures, it looks like an Mn deficiency moves from the inside out. Or am I just being dumb?
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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For sure transplant, and give some OG Bio war. Also, an act will help to get that soil mix alive.

If I had to guess, it looks like a micro deficiency. Boron is my first guess, however iron Manganese and Zinc can all play a roll. You didn't state all the micro's you added to your soil mix, but if it's the coots mix, then it should be fine.

I would consider a foliar application of your trace elements. An act will help make those trace elements available to your plants. Sometimes, the soil can come out with a high ph, so you might want to water with 6.0 ph-ed water for a couple weeks.

Did you get rid of the bugs?
 
ShroomKing

ShroomKing

Best of luck. Peace
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I see several deficiencies. Mn, mg, and iron....this leads me to believe that the pH of your meduim is too high.
Because.....
.....all those nutrients lock out with a ph over 6.

Best of luck.
Peace
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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BTW - The PH will lower when the bio activity is raised in the soil, hence the ACT need. Plain watering should be 6.0 for a couple weeks. Till plants show signs of improvement.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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As for your room RH%. Maybe think about getting a closed system ran with CO2? With all the air intakes your humidifiers don't seem like they are up for the challenge. Sorry I can't be more help with the indoor setups, been a while for me. Or look into controllers, that will control your fans and humidifiers.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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See? This is why I fucking love the farm haha! Fuck, y'all respond quick haha. And always with the BEST advice.

@Bulldog11 I was thinking boron, too, just from looking at pictures of deficiencies. But I thought.... I dunno. Boron? It seems so.... Esoteric or something hahaha!!!! I have Bioag tm-7 and Bioag ful-power. I think the tm-7 would probably be the most affective for adding trace elements, but I dunno.

Also, I felt like the aact's I already added would be enough, seeing as how they're so young and all, but I guess not? How should I go about applying all of those? The Biowar, AACT and tm-7, I mean. Add the Biowar (I have all three packs) to the soil when I transplant, foliar with the tm-7 and drench with the AACT? I feel like that's just straight overkill, but I suppose in a situation like this, maybe you gotta go overboard?

@ShroomKing Thank you for chiming in. How would one go about lowering the ph of water in a grow that somebody's trying to keep completely organic? Also, would lowering the ph of my water at the same time as adding an AACT, og biowar and tm-7 (or ful-power) be too much? I'll search organic methods of lowering water ph in a minute (just as soon as I get finished responding to all of these posts)(dang, I love you guys hahaha!!!), but any insight you have in the matter will be greatly appreciated.

Does this also mean that I'm gonna have to get a ph meter now? Yes, right?

@3N1GM4 Thank you, too! As far as transplanting into ph'ed soil, I have a pretty big batch of soil just waiting to get used. Does that mean I have to "correct" it with ph'ed water before I use it? Or can I transplant and then fix it in the pot?

Sorry, guys. I'm a newbie. I have no other excuses haha.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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As for your room RH%. Maybe think about getting a closed system ran with CO2? With all the air intakes your humidifiers don't seem like they are up for the challenge. Sorry I can't be more help with the indoor setups, been a while for me. Or look into controllers, that will control your fans and humidifiers.

Really? It's been a while for you re: indoor growing? Thanks for rubbing your outdoor grow in my face hahaha. Just kidding, love all of your posts, soooooo wish I was in a position to grow outdoors.

CO2 is not an option right now. It kind of weirds me out, too. Trying to keep this as "natural" as possible. And I only have one passive intake. Or I only use one passive intake. I mean, occasionally I'll open one side of the tent during lights on, just for more fresh air. But I noticed that the tent actually gets hotter when I do that, so usually I just let the passive do its thing. Tent seems cool enough and it seems like that keeps the humidity levels a little higher, too. I have a Dustshroom on the outside of my passive, not that that really means anything.

Been considering a fan speed controller for a couple weeks now, but I can't seem to find one that performs reliably. At least according to the reviews I've read. If I do get one (and I probably will in the next couple days), I think I'm gonna get the Titan Mercury 3 or 4. Seems like that one's the most reliable. And it's compatible with my Vortex. Or at least that's what the Titan guy I spoke to on the phone a few weeks ago told me....
 
3N1GM4

3N1GM4

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I would transplant into new pot and then water with plain water around the outside edge leaving the middle and the rootball dry. That is supposed to encourage the roots to grow in search of water.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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I would transplant into new pot and then water with plain water around the outside edge leaving the middle and the rootball dry. That is supposed to encourage the roots to grow in search of water.

But if the water and/or soil ph is fucked, wouldn't it not matter if the roots are searching for water? Or rather, if the water ph is fucked, than wouldn't it be an issue once the roots found said water?
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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See? This is why I fucking love the farm haha! Fuck, y'all respond quick haha. And always with the BEST advice.

@Bulldog11 I was thinking boron, too, just from looking at pictures of deficiencies. But I thought.... I dunno. Boron? It seems so.... Esoteric or something hahaha!!!! I have Bioag tm-7 and Bioag ful-power. I think the tm-7 would probably be the most affective for adding trace elements, but I dunno.

Also, I felt like the aact's I already added would be enough, seeing as how they're so young and all, but I guess not? How should I go about applying all of those? The Biowar, AACT and tm-7, I mean. Add the Biowar (I have all three packs) to the soil when I transplant, foliar with the tm-7 and drench with the AACT? I feel like that's just straight overkill, but I suppose in a situation like this, maybe you gotta go overboard?

Lets make life easy shall we? Everything you said in your last post is correct, however too much of anything is a bad idea. So, lets just go with the TM-7, and a quick and painless transplant. Too many tea's can be a bad thing, however, your adding new soil that hasn't had a tea yet.

#1 Transplant, add root pack globally from OG bio war.
#2 ACT the day of transplant or up to three days after. This you should root drench and foliar if possible, full strength. This should be a simple tea, like molasses and EWC only.
#3 After Tea's, and transplant, your next watering add in the TM-7. If possible, foliar this product. I know coots mix has everything in the soil, so overloading the soil will cause problems. Can't remember if foliar is an option with that product.

That should take care of everything people have diagnosed in this thread.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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Lets make life easy shall we? Everything you said in your last post is correct, however too much of anything is a bad idea. So, lets just go with the TM-7, and a quick and painless transplant. Too many tea's can be a bad thing, however, your adding new soil that hasn't had a tea yet.

#1 Transplant, add root pack globally from OG bio war.
#2 ACT the day of transplant or up to three days after. This you should root drench and foliar if possible, full strength. This should be a simple tea, like molasses and EWC only.
#3 After Tea's, and transplant, your next watering add in the TM-7. If possible, foliar this product. I know coots mix has everything in the soil, so overloading the soil will cause problems. Can't remember if foliar is an option with that product.

That should take care of everything people have diagnosed in this thread.

Ok, will do. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure you can foliar with the TM-7. I know that buildasoil says that it's good to add to AACTs. Seems to me that if one can add it to a tea that'll be used as a foliar, then one could also foliar using just the TM-7. I'll look into it further before I do that, but it makes sense to me that a product that can be added to a foliar tea could also be used singularly, eg a straight TM-7 foliar.

I also recall Tim the Microbeman saying that he's observed that humic acids added to teas delays and/or suppresses microbial growth, so I won't add it to my AACT. But it does seem like one could foliar with just TM-7.

Also, only the roots pack? Why not add all three globally? Or at least the roots and the nutes packs?

And (sorry, man haha), I've been adding AACTs to the "cooking" mix every couple weeks, thought that that would be enough for at least a month after I actually planted. And I already watered twice with AACTs once the plants started growing. It hasn't even been a month since my seeds broke ground. You think there could be a problem with the AACTs? I've only been using EWC and molasses (except for the very first tea, like two or three months ago, which was one of coots' recipes that I added to the first "cooking" mix), brewed pretty much exactly how Tim suggests (at least thirty hours and until the tea doesn't smell like molasses anymore). I wonder if there's been a problem with my AACTs. I don't have a microscope, so....
 
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3N1GM4

3N1GM4

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But if the water and/or soil ph is fucked, wouldn't it not matter if the roots are searching for water? Or rather, if the water ph is fucked, than wouldn't it be an issue once the roots found said water?
If you take a soil slurry ph test or five from the soil before you transplant and the tests are ok, and you ph up or down your water b4 watering then you have nothing to worry about.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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You could do all the OG BIowar products, but the root pack is where it's at. Plus, I think those packs have redundant spores, so it might be a waste. However, I don't think all three packs would hurt one bit.

The ACT's are very hard to over due, especially if your using MM's recipe's and advice. However, I rarely need a tea more than once every other week. I think the main thing here is the TM-7. The only reason I keep going back to the tea, is because the coots mix is solid and shouldn't need anything at all. However the TM-7 will kick in the micro's real fast, especially as a foliar.
 
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