Can I help answer anyone's cooling questions?

[Chillville]

I was wondering if i would have any problems with the chiller being outdoors during the winter months? it freezes a few times every winter. Would the 1/2hp flotec have enough flow rate to keep the chiller from freezing up components? the water loop for the chiller shouldn't be more than 4ft. i was reading about using glycol but that would be mean like 30gal -55gal depending on 30-50% ratio. i dont know about spending $850+ on glycol

Yes if you are planning on using the chiller outdoors in the winter you really need a compressor heater and you really need to be using glycol year round. You can buy glycol (marine and rv coolant) at most wal marts for $4 per gallon so you would need $200 worth to fill res. Seems expensive but well worth it. It isn't necessary to fill the entire res either, filling up 30 gallons is more than enough. If the chiller cycles on and off too often then you would need to add more glycol to the res.

About the compressor heater, you can order it from H.I. and there are instructions on how to install it, pretty simple actually. They are about $100 or so, I'm not sure exactly.

 

[Chillville]

I got 4 to but start with two fresca sols with 1k's digital ballasts in 4x8 tent and a month later start another 4x8 just the same but on flips.The veg area is a 5x6 closet with 400 watts of 4 ft t8 florescence lights.I was thinking one 8" ice box with 500cfm booster fan in each tent and maybe one in the closet for ambient temp control.I have a water cooled co2 and bottles.I think I should plumb for it when making the manifold and not over complicate things and use the bottle for now.Also 65 pint dehumidifier will be in tent till can set a rez below the dew point just for the ice boxes to set up to drain in controller bucket in tent.I am running the cap ebb n grows.The room is facing south so sun most of the day.Not much insulation just some blown fiber glass 2 to 3 inch thick on ceiling not sure in walls but not interior walls.I am thinking a 1-2 inch foam board r6 or r12 to help block the sun on south wall with the 3x8ft single pane windows two 2ft' slider on each side .

Any info for sensors to diy a flow,temp shutdown and flood control for cheap?

Ok so you will have 4 1k watt lamps running 24 hrs a day for flowering, and in veg you will have a 400 watt running 18-24 hrs. If you will at least put the foam insulation up eveyrwhere you can I think that a 2 ton should be fine for that setup but bordeline. If you have dimmable ballast you can always turn them back if the chiller couldn't keep up. If your co2 generator heats your room too much you can always switch to bottles instead, basically its good to have choices. I run dimmable ballasts and when its 110 outside I dial them all back to keep everything cool.

 

[seebobsled]

yes but not 4k for 24hr. - 2k for 24 hours aka 2k for each 4x8.

 

[seebobsled]

Any info for sensors to diy a flow,temp shutdown and flood control for cheap?

 

[water wise guy]

I got 4 to but start with two fresca sols with 1k's digital ballasts in 4x8 tent and a month later start another 4x8 just the same but on flips.The veg area is a 5x6 closet with 400 watts of 4 ft t8 florescence lights.I was thinking one 8" ice box with 500cfm booster fan in each tent and maybe one in the closet for ambient temp control.I have a water cooled co2 and bottles.I think I should plumb for it when making the manifold and not over complicate things and use the bottle for now.Also 65 pint dehumidifier will be in tent till can set a rez below the dew point just for the ice boxes to set up to drain in controller bucket in tent.I am running the cap ebb n grows.The room is facing south so sun most of the day.Not much insulation just some blown fiber glass 2 to 3 inch thick on ceiling not sure in walls but not interior walls.I am thinking a 1-2 inch foam board r6 or r12 to help block the sun on south wall with the 3x8ft single pane windows two 2ft' slider on each side .

Any info for sensors to diy a flow,temp shutdown and flood control for cheap?

this system should work great using fresca sols and a ice box for a/c is the most efficient way to run a garden. you should have no trouble keeping everything cool with this system. for the chiller a 1ton will be borderline and probbably work in the winter but for summer you will probably need a 2 ton to be safe for the hot months.

 

[water wise guy]

Any info for sensors to diy a flow,temp shutdown and flood control for cheap?

you can get the sensors from a pool or spa place but then you have to get relays for them and a transformer as most sensor run on 12v. did you check out best coast growers they sell a flow sensor caslled the no flow no go that has worked very well for my client in the past and it is pretty affordable.

 

[seebobsled]

this for no flow sensor

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EHHXAS?tag=ben-2011-12-20

this to control water temps

http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Logic-Di...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317107252&sr=8-1http:

this for two stage light shut down

//www.amazon.com/Control-Products-TC-9102D-HV-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0057APR3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317145556&sr=8-1

can I use a low voltage relay to turn pumps off with this on the trigger? basically small transformer and water sensor in between the hot for trigger. right? and a fuse for safety.

http://www.amazon.com/Protected-Hom...UTF8&qid=1317145869&sr=8-14#productPromotions

Fyi I am very confident at building and wiring just not sure right applications of product . Like TC-9102D-HV it has a nickle plated probe I think is fine for air but the Aqua-Logic-Digital-Temperature-Controller has Titanium probe looks better for water.

 

[seebobsled]

:movie Check these specs... 1st up no-flow


Easy to Install

For Both Fresh & Salt Water

Pre-Wired with Cord Ends

PVC and Titanium Construction

Protect Against No Flow Freeze Damage



FS-1.5


Aqua Logic water flow switches are the best way to safe guard your inline chiller from freezing if the pump is mistakenly turned off or due to a pump failure. Freeze damage to the heat exchanger is not covered by warranties, costly to replace, and can result in water damage when the unit thaws out. These inexpensive and easy to install water flow switches are great insurance. When water flow stops the switch will automatically turn off the chiller.

Constructed of PVC and titanium with all wetted parts, Aqua Logic's water flow switches are completely saltwater compatible.

Plumbing is PVC slip sockets. Water flow switches come pre-wired which allows for a quick connection between the chiller and temperature controller. Cord end configuration for the 10 and 15 amp, 115v units is NEMA #5-15 , the 20 amp 115v unit is a NEMA #5-20, and the 20 amp, 230v unit is a NEMA #6-15


Aqua Logic Water Flow Switch


Aqua Logic Water Flow Switch


Aqua Logic Water Flow Switch

Return to Top

Water Flow Switch Specifications:


Model
Number


Size of Flow Switch


Amps Load Capacity


For Use With the Following Size Chillers

FS-1


1"


10


up to 1/3hp Chillers (115v)

FS-1.5-15


1.5"


15


up to 1/2hp Chillers (115v)

FS-1.5-20


1.5"


20


3/4hp Chillers (115v)

FS-1.5-230


1.5"


20


1/2 to 1.5hp Chillers (230v)

FS-2


2"


10


Replacement for MT Chillers and HP Heat Pumps (not wired)



Aqua Logic Water Flow Switch

FS-2


Aqua Logic Water Flow Switch

FS-1




2nd UP


CONTROL
PRODUCTS Innovative Technologies in Custom Electronic Design & Manufacturing
1
TC-9102 Series Surface Mount
Temperature Controllers
The TC-9102 Series Temperature Controller offers a versatile
solution for a wide variety of applications that may require 30
amp relays, short cycle delays and independent dual stages in
one convenient, easy to use controller.
The TC-9102 controller can accommodate input voltages from
12VAC to 240VAC. The TC-9102 comes with a temperature
sensor with a temperature range of -40 to 300F (-40 to
148°C). An optional RTD sensor is also available.
· Single or Dual stage models with independent relay
control.
· Programmable set point, differential, short cycle delay
time, and temperature sensor calibration mode.
· Fahrenheit or Celsius Mode Selectable.
· LED relay status indicator.
· NEMA 1, high-impact plastic enclosure.
· Tamper resistant features to lock out and limit set point
adjustment and programming features.
· .56” high red LED display with three digit display in 1
degree increments.
· Displays current temperature.
· Durable touch-pad programming with LED display
prompts.
Power Requirements:
· Low Voltage (LV) models accept 12 to 24VAC & 24VDC.
· High Voltage (HV) models accept 120 to 240VAC.
Relay(s) Contact Rating:
1 relay on single stage models, 2 relays on dual stage models.
· SPST, normally open – switch up to 30A at 277 VAC
Ambient Operating Temp: 20 to 158°F (-6 to 70°C)
Ambient Operating Humidity: 90%RH at 95°F (35°C)
Accuracy: ± 2° F, ± 2°C
Temperature Sensor Range:
· PTC sensor included: -40 to 300°F (-40 to 148°C) with
36” (.91M) 24AWG, 2 conductor wire. Nickel plated
copper sensor cap: 1.75”L (44mm) x .251” OD (6.38mm).
· Optional 1000 Ohm Platinum RTD sensor:
0 to 600°F (-17 to 316°C)
Relay Status Indicator: LED is on when relay is activated.
Dimensions: L 6.00” (15.24cm) x W 3.12” (7.92cm) x D 2.00”
(5.08cm)
Agency Approvals: UL and CUL recognized. RoHS compliant.
Power Connections
240 VAC
COMMON
120 VAC
No polarity.
Accepts up
to 240VAC
resistive/30
amps
No polarity.
Accepts up
to 240VAC
resistive/30
amps
Stage 1
Normally Open
Stage 2
Normally Open
Sensor Connections
Ground
Signal
+5 VDC
Sensor connections are on
the smaller circuit board
Wiring Connections
Specifications
Features
General Description & Applications
Low Voltage Power: On low voltage (LV) models, the
input voltage can be 12 to 24 VAC or 24 VDC. LV
models will only have a two position terminal block
marked “240” and “COM”. There is no polarity with
any of the low voltage inputs, so both power leads can
go into either of these terminal positions.
Sensor Type Ground Signal +5 VDC
PTC or RTD sensor Black White NA



So Can this one handle food safe glycol like a
copper & aluminum exchanger??? the probe is
copper with nickle plating.

 

[seebobsled]

:fighting0085: dammm where is that any key!!!!
Well the aqau logic no-flow Don't like chlorine!! It eats titanium.Will not work for the manifold because you want chlorine to keep fresca sol glass clean for what I've been told. So 255.00 no flow-no go not to bad when you piece price, source it out and time to complete...Ahh Buck Up and wait for ship or just sit and search & watch the time roll on. Now that temp controller from CONTROL PRODUCTS looks bad ass for 60 bucks with 2 relays and adjustable time delay,temp,swing of degrees and in any configuration :icon_animal26:
just like bunnie front,back,side2side...trying to cover all.Thanks

 

[ttystikk]

Okay, I saw something that made me worry... Since there are two water cooling specialists posting in here, can you guys tell me what I need to do to weatherproof my 2 Ton window mount Chillking chiller? I live in Colorado, and it's been known to get down to 25 below here in town... Last thing I need is to blow something up because it got too COLD!

I'm still interested in running an outside cooling circuit to take advantage of cold weather, but that's on the back burner for now.

To give some idea of what I plan to do with this system, I have a 55 gallon drum res, a 1/2hp Flotec pump, and a bloom room that will be running up to 8 x 1000w in 'ocho' style aircooled hoods, vented. Sealed bloomroom. Tank CO2. Three, yes 3 separate RDWC systems in there, total of 48 x 5gal buckets. Why is a good question for another thread, lol. I plan to cool all this plus the veg room, with 1000w bare bulb and another 24 sites x 4 gal buckets.

In other words, I'm thinking the chiller will be running most of the time. How do I protect it from freezing in a cold snap?

 

[Chillville]

Okay, I saw something that made me worry... Since there are two water cooling specialists posting in here, can you guys tell me what I need to do to weatherproof my 2 Ton window mount Chillking chiller? I live in Colorado, and it's been known to get down to 25 below here in town... Last thing I need is to blow something up because it got too COLD!

I'm still interested in running an outside cooling circuit to take advantage of cold weather, but that's on the back burner for now.

To give some idea of what I plan to do with this system, I have a 55 gallon drum res, a 1/2hp Flotec pump, and a bloom room that will be running up to 8 x 1000w in 'ocho' style aircooled hoods, vented. Sealed bloomroom. Tank CO2. Three, yes 3 separate RDWC systems in there, total of 48 x 5gal buckets. Why is a good question for another thread, lol. I plan to cool all this plus the veg room, with 1000w bare bulb and another 24 sites x 4 gal buckets.

In other words, I'm thinking the chiller will be running most of the time. How do I protect it from freezing in a cold snap?

For weatherproofing the chiller order a comrpessor heater from HI, there are instruction, you can install yourself. Being window mounted you would probably be ok since the house will keep it warm. Since it uses power I would only use it when it was below freezing outside then just unhook it.

For an outdoor cooling circuit that is EASY! Get a thrash can and a 25' or 50' roll of 1/2" OD copper tubing (for refrigeration). Hook up one of your 1/2" hoses to one end of the copper and hook up another 1/2" hose to the other, run these to your manifold. Pull the roll apart making it like a spring, put it in the thrash can. Fill the thrash can with water and you have a heat exchanger. Water will pump through the hose, through the coil, then back to the retuen manifold. The water returning to the manifold will be chilled by the water in the thrash can, which might actually freeze at night giving you hours of stored energy. I only wish I could do something like that.

 

[sourkush91]

Hey i was just wondering what temp i should set my 2hp chill king on... im kinda new to the chiller thing im only cooling 2k in lighting with ice boxes a water cooled dehu. and my 6 site cch2o...

 

[Chillville]

Well the higher the water temp on the chiller the more efficient it runs. What is your chiller set to now and what is the temp of the UC? I keep my chiller at 60 with a 5 degree differential which keeps my UC about 68, right where I want it to be. Usually I recommend to keep the chiller just above dew point which will be around 58-65 degrees depending on humidity.

 

[sourkush91]

Ill play around with it... after i make my changes to the res... i should be able to figure it out quite easily but it will change now that its getting colder around here... hopefully soon my chiller doesnt even have to work to cool my garden lol...

 

[ttystikk]

Hey i was just wondering what temp i should set my 2hp chill king on... im kinda new to the chiller thing im only cooling 2k in lighting with ice boxes a water cooled dehu. and my 6 site cch2o...

I run my 2 Ton chiller at 56 with an 8 degree differential. This gives me 65 degrees in my bloom RDWC, which is 26 x 5 gallon buckets in the 'morning', which warms up to 68 right before the lights shut off.

On the same chiller, I also run a veg RDWC, 26 x 4 gallon buckets, runs 68 degrees all the time, with 2 x 1kW hoods on 18 hours a day.

From reading various threads, I'm gathering that 68 is more or less an upper limit to control root rot, and that 64 degrees is the magic number, below which the dreaded pythium rot apparently can't live. Since I had a massive pythium problem right before I turned on the chiller, I'm watching my buckets like a hawk, adding 3ml/gal of 29% H2O2 on an almost daily basis, and last night cleaned the dead roots off my plants. They seem to be in recovery mode, but it clearly hurt my potential yield badly this run. If I don't gain the upper hand soon, I will crank the chiller down another 5 degrees and see if I can get the buckets to 62.

Personal experience/worst case/nightmare scenario thing I'm living through here... if I get it licked you all will be the first to know!

The damned disease even infested my baby ebb n flow table AND my cloner!
Slam in the H2O2 everywhere!!! Also, using Dutch Master Zone, and a similar new product to help protect rootzones.

 

[ttystikk]

Chillin for Serious

For weatherproofing the chiller order a comrpessor heater from HI, there are instruction, you can install yourself. Being window mounted you would probably be ok since the house will keep it warm. Since it uses power I would only use it when it was below freezing outside then just unhook it.

If I'll be okay with the chiller in the window, do I need the heater at all? Anything I can do to skip the expense of the heater and just use house heat? It will get damned cold around here soon, and I don't want any nasty surprises. By the time it gets that cold though, I'm likely to be utilizing the full cooling capacity of the chiller. Will that make a difference? Maybe if I knew exactly what components were most vulnerable to low temps and why?

For an outdoor cooling circuit that is EASY! Get a thrash can and a 25' or 50' roll of 1/2" OD copper tubing (for refrigeration). Hook up one of your 1/2" hoses to one end of the copper and hook up another 1/2" hose to the other, run these to your manifold. Pull the roll apart making it like a spring, put it in the thrash can. Fill the thrash can with water and you have a heat exchanger. Water will pump through the hose, through the coil, then back to the retuen manifold. The water returning to the manifold will be chilled by the water in the thrash can, which might actually freeze at night giving you hours of stored energy. I only wish I could do something like that.

Shortly, I'm gonna be cranking up to full output; 8 x 1kW lights, dehuey and 54 sites worth of RDWC systems in bloom room, 2 x 1kW lights and 26 sites of RDWC in the veg room.

1. If the chiller never shuts off for more than 5 or 10 minutes, will I need a heater at all?

2. Also, this is gonna be waaaay more BTUs than even a metal trash can sitting outside will be able to dissipate. The surface area alone just won't suffice. And if it's full of water and that water freezes solid (as it would if my cooling system were to be shut off during a COLD night), my water line inside is toast, and so is my cooling system!

3. That's why I'm thinking more along the lines of a car radiator with a fan mounted to it and sucking cold air through the fins. This will certainly actively pull a lot more heat, and won't be an expensive proposition. If I find the right fan it would be pretty quiet, and I think I could even set up a thermal switch and have it run only when water temps exceed a given differential. This could then daisychain on the same waterline upstream of the chiller itself, allowing the chiller to work a lot less- or if it's cold enough out- not at all. Am I on the right track here? Would you think it would be better on its own circuit? Of course I'd build some sort of insulating box I could cover the whole thing with in the event of a warm day in January, which happens regularly. It's a given I'd be running glycol in the chiller system, I'd be a fool not to.

 

[sourkush91]

Thanks tty i will be changing up my setup tomorrow and adding glycol to my res...

 

[sourkush91]

Yo anyone know how much heat a submersable pump in putting my my chiller res... it a 1/3 hp submersable... would an inline pump be better and put off less heat?

 

[Chillville]

SK91 find out wattage of the pump and plug it in here, it will tell you how many btu's...



Probably around 1,000 BTU for a 1/3hp, inline pumps put less heat in the water for sure.

 

[Chillville]

If I'll be okay with the chiller in the window, do I need the heater at all? Anything I can do to skip the expense of the heater and just use house heat? It will get damned cold around here soon, and I don't want any nasty surprises. By the time it gets that cold though, I'm likely to be utilizing the full cooling capacity of the chiller. Will that make a difference? Maybe if I knew exactly what components were most vulnerable to low temps and why?



Shortly, I'm gonna be cranking up to full output; 8 x 1kW lights, dehuey and 54 sites worth of RDWC systems in bloom room, 2 x 1kW lights and 26 sites of RDWC in the veg room.

1. If the chiller never shuts off for more than 5 or 10 minutes, will I need a heater at all?

2. Also, this is gonna be waaaay more BTUs than even a metal trash can sitting outside will be able to dissipate. The surface area alone just won't suffice. And if it's full of water and that water freezes solid (as it would if my cooling system were to be shut off during a COLD night), my water line inside is toast, and so is my cooling system!

3. That's why I'm thinking more along the lines of a car radiator with a fan mounted to it and sucking cold air through the fins. This will certainly actively pull a lot more heat, and won't be an expensive proposition. If I find the right fan it would be pretty quiet, and I think I could even set up a thermal switch and have it run only when water temps exceed a given differential. This could then daisychain on the same waterline upstream of the chiller itself, allowing the chiller to work a lot less- or if it's cold enough out- not at all. Am I on the right track here? Would you think it would be better on its own circuit? Of course I'd build some sort of insulating box I could cover the whole thing with in the event of a warm day in January, which happens regularly. It's a given I'd be running glycol in the chiller system, I'd be a fool not to.

If the chiller isn't going to be sitting idle more than an hour or two you shouldn't have any issue. It when it sits for hours when it is below freezing outside that's when there can be a problem. How cold does it get? BTW you are worried about the oil in the compressor and the pressures in the system. The problem with the oil is that it thickens up and causes problems with the comrpessor, sometimes causing it to seize up. Plus when its too cold the refrigerant pressures inside the chiller can drop really low sometimes causing units not to start up, it trips the low pressure sensor if it has one.

1. no I don't think so
2. If you run propelyne glycol the water passing through the coil wouldn't freeze even if the thrash can was frozen solid. The thrash can I only meant as a booster for your chiller, I knew it wouldn't handle the load of the whole setup. Unless I actually tested it I have no idea how much cooling you would get out of a thrash, but I'm curious to find out. If you are going to be running 24/7 then a thrash can wouldn't do much for you but you could BTU test it if you were interested in trying it. After a BTU test it then we will know how many gallons and how much copper you would need to cool the entire setup.
3. I recommended a thrash can because it doesn't make noise and doesn't use electricity, but a fan and radiator will work better for sure. HI sells a compressorless chiller that is basically what you are talking about, it just looks like an a/c. If you can get your hands on an old a/c condenser you can pull out the compressor and convert the refrigeration lines over to water. You just use the fan that comes with it.