canna coco deficiencies?

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organicfreak

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IMHO you get best results...
again I went from 3 to 20 on a couple this last time(lol to save time) and they still got big...
However i feel there was a delay in growth due to all the room they had to adjust to...
Like when I would water they wouldnt drink it all as fast as a 7 gallon would... So I feel by working your way up 1,3,7,20.. They have enough room to expand ,but not enough that there getting re-acklimented to there new "huge" environment...

In conclusion
I believe you can go big to small,but be prepaired for longer transplant shock period,but if you start 1,3,7,20 There ALMSOT no delay. THEY JUST TAKE OFF...

awesome - i have always wnated to gove smart pots a try - didnt think up potting was an option with them - awesome to know
 
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organicfreak

Guest
Now i use mycomadness (homemade) which is
kelp
humic acid
fulvic acid
endo exto myco's
bacteria
trichederma
So this I believe also helps them get acklimated immeditally as well...

and been expirementing with b1 which gave me 95% succes rate with cloning
 
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organicfreak

Guest
AND I CANT STRES THIS ENOUGH....
I HAD HORRIBLE RESULTS WITH COCO FOR ABOUT A YR...
Read everything but when I started to clean buffer an ph adjust the coco ALL MY PROBLEMS WENT AWAY...
Now ive battled mites,aphids, and boosted to much with moab,so please don't let me make it sound like this is EASY...
CAUSE ITS NOT...
However coco IS NO LONGER A CHALLENGE....

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organicfreak

Guest
Another thought I just had was MOST PEOPLE would say don't transplant this much because it will cause stress...
BUT IMHO
This is exactly what I'm preventing...
By leaving them in to small of an enviroment where there strangling each other for room/food IS STRESS,and again after going from 3-20 I SAW HUGE DECLINE IN GROWTH FOR ABOUT 10 -14 DAYS... ISNT THIS A FORM OF STRESS???

imho your keeping them STRESS FREE room/food wise going from 1,3,7,20
Also transplanting is happening every 10-21 days AFTER 7 youll see a shit load of roots coming out... PRETTY AMAZING...

Also the transplant is harmless...
You roll the smart pot down like you would a sock...
AGAIN KEEP MOIST IF 2 DRY WILL CRUMBLE...
Fill new pot 1/4- 1/3 rd way
set transplant in..
fill/press into place coco/perlite
and cover BUT LEAVE FEW INCH'S FOR FEED/WATERING...
Othewise water will over flow...
Then water either feed or r.o I like to feed them @ 5.5 and now leaving it @ 4.9(thats were its @ after adding nute/additive to my feed bucket I hand water)
I do this cause I have a 500 $ directly place in the coc ph meter and I've been watching ph stay @ 6.0 and rise to 6.5 ever since I flushed(think I WASHED OUT MY BUFFER) anywho I feel that by feeding the 5.8 RECOMENDED PH LEVEL the coco drifts higher and by countering this with lower ph helps stay in that 5.8-6.0 range were I get explosive growth..
Imho if you dont have this meter its hard to do what I'm doing so k.i.s.s and feed from 5.5-5.8

Dont transplant into flowering... YOU WANT ALL WORK GOING TO FLOWERING...
I like to be in 20gallon's wk or 2 be4 flowering beggins

o
 
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Snow Crash

150
18
Save the Cannazym for when you hit flowering. But start right at 12/12 (I'm not sure if you are in flowering or not) but not before then.

Rhizotonic works best at high concentrations, mixed shortly before applying, and at a pH somewhere around 6.2. If you happen to still have another week or so in veg I'd suggest giving them a good 15ml/gallon boost of the Rhizotonic and letting the organics do some work on the roots. Leave the enzymes out until that root zone is kickin or you absolutely need the pk.

Your plants do look healthy, maybe they could use some more light but that's no problem really. I think you could perhaps give a few more hours between saturations at for a few days until they look a little stronger. Coco is pH stable and will take care of itself. I prefer to start my solutions around 5.8 in veg but move them up gradually to 6.0 or so during flowering to assist the availability of phosphorus. Nitrogen and Calcium are tied together in these nutrient systems so unless you saw a calcium issue then you probably didn't have a true nitrogen deficiency. Phosphorus, Potassium, or Magnesium are much more likely.

In veg I have run plants well into 3.0ec without much trouble. The issues start showing up in flowering and if you're not keenly familiar with what is in the coco, and what you're feeding, then trouble can show up quick. Keep that epsom salt handy to make a foliar spray for week 2 and 3 of flowering... You'll need it.
 
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organicfreak

Guest
snow
imho you save 1000's$ by cutting out nute companies
But this couldn't be more easier said then this:

rhizotonic cannazyme pk13/14 a+ b ALL WORK

But you can make each 1 for pennies on the dollar...

I already did the math but heres the math for the zymes alone...

It takes 10ml of carfree enzymes to 160 gallons of feed water and it cost 140$ish
It takes 160 ml of cannazymes to 160 gallons of feed water thats 20 x and againg my smart pots had alge all over them..lol enzymes eat dead matter and suppose to keep evrything white not green?

Rhizotonic is same as mycomadness again for 140$ ish you get a gallon @ 8mlgal hobbyist last 1-3 months. Avgerage commercial 1-2wks

150ish I get 8lbs of mix last me YEARS... I use @ half teaspoon or 2.5 ml gal Have to do the math but its ALOT mine will last most hobbyist yrs.. Average comercial opp 6month-yr..

Also friend since were talking about 2-3 month veg... your going to want to use zymes,and sugar/mollasses in veg... most people don't need it in veg cause they veg for 1-4 wks. AGAIN WITH ALL THE TRANSPLATING/PRUINING there's going to be dead roots... And sugar helps the mycro's as well

And its says for flowering on bottle cause there's trace amounts of PK in it again cause canna is sellying to most people who veg for 1-4 wks....

o
 
S

Snow Crash

150
18
snow
imho you save 1000's$ by cutting out nute companies
But this couldn't be more easier said then this:

rhizotonic cannazyme pk13/14 a+ b ALL WORK

But you can make each 1 for pennies on the dollar...

I already did the math but heres the math for the zymes alone...

It takes 10ml of carfree enzymes to 160 gallons of feed water and it cost 140$ish
It takes 160 ml of cannazymes to 160 gallons of feed water thats 20 x and againg my smart pots had alge all over them..lol enzymes eat dead matter and suppose to keep evrything white not green?

Rhizotonic is same as mycomadness again for 140$ ish you get a gallon @ 8mlgal hobbyist last 1-3 months. Avgerage commercial 1-2wks

150ish I get 8lbs of mix last me YEARS... I use @ half teaspoon or 2.5 ml gal Have to do the math but its ALOT mine will last most hobbyist yrs.. Average comercial opp 6month-yr..

Also friend since were talking about 2-3 month veg... your going to want to use zymes,and sugar/mollasses in veg... most people don't need it in veg cause they veg for 1-4 wks. AGAIN WITH ALL THE TRANSPLATING/PRUINING there's going to be dead roots... And sugar helps the mycro's as well

And its says for flowering on bottle cause there's trace amounts of PK in it again cause canna is sellying to most people who veg for 1-4 wks....

o

It probably could be said "more easier."

I don't think I could save 1000's on nutrients because I don't spend 1000's on nutrients. I think I'll spend maybe $100 on nutrients for my current grow and pull more than a pound so... I'm really not complaining... but I guess I'm also not using canna anymore either.

Enzymes are whatever. You can choose to not use enzymes at all and do just fine like many other people do. The true use of CannaZym in the Canna Nutrients system is the 0-2-1 nutrient ratio. At 10ml per gallon it will certainly create a balanced nutrient profile when used with their A+B, something like 5-6-4 depending on how much A+B you're running.

If you can instead use a product like Hydroplex, or Dry KoolBloom, or really any other high phosphorus supplement, you can cut your costs by more than 80%. In addition the plants get some added benefits from using genuine bloom supplements rather than enzymes that break down root cells. The enzymatic processes can be alleviated through other organic means as well and I honestly question their absolute necessity in the grow room.

Rhizotonic is most definitely not mycomadness. The closest replacement I can think of is General Organics BioMarine. I've been using Botanicare Liquid Karma and General Organics BioWeed with fantastic and noticeable results. Root's just blowing up out of my 3 gallon smartpots like I'd never seen before. I have used MycoMaximum, in combination with Canna Coco and Rhizotonic and I never saw anything like fresh roots just blowing up out of the fabric before. I've stopped using the stuff myself, but I'm not here to tell anyone what to get.

At the end of a grow, $200 in Canna nutrients can pull you an easy 500 grams. If you're tripping over $0.40 per gram in nutrients then you're probably a commercial grower. Personally, I don't find it to be such a big deal. I did manage to cut that down to about $0.20 per gram... maybe I can cut it in half again to $0.10 per gram with some efficiency... but at no point do I feel like I absolutely HAVE to get off formulated nutrients. I can see the appeal of using inexpensive dry salts. It is within my capabilities to understand the chemistry and botany involved when making them myself, but I don't feel like my energies are best dedicated to that endeavor given the relatively low cost of growing something I've paid, no shit, $20 a gram for at a dispensary. $0.10/gram now and complaining about the cost of nutrients is not something I'm about to do.

You really want to save some money on growing? Use the sun! Or if that doesn't work, move out of California and stop paying $0.25 per kwh. I have 3x the wattage now and pay maybe $20 less per month. That's real savings. I'm going to save thousands on my power bill, and maybe on my insurance, but on nutrients... Shit. If there was anywhere to place your faith it is in the Ph.D's that have come before us.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
You really want to save money on growing? Use urine + wood ashes (we heat our home with wood, soooo...) as your fertilizer. Yeah. Growing under the sun is what's going to be left for us, it shines no matter what. PG&E? Not so much. Can't wait to get off their teat!
 
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organicfreak

Guest
haha snow you work for nute companies????
Lol your miss informing every1 on how much $ you save...
I've done the math twice on enzymes alone...
SO WERE GOING TO HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE...

I'm not commercial AND I SAVE 1000"S HOW???
CAUSE I SPENT UNDER A 1000$ And now have almost a life time of salts/additives..

According to your agument you spent 100 a month x 12 is 1200 and guess what next year your spending another 1000 guess what next year another 1000$ LOL GET MY POINT? iLL STILL HAVE MOST OF MY INGREDIENTS 5 YRS LATER... you'll still be buying from hydrostores every month/yr

So please dont undercut what I'm saying lol unless your a nute companie troll then IT ALL MAKES SENSE... Why would you want the farm saving 1000$?

Rhizotonic is made from chix manure thats the only differnece in mycomadness...
There both there to boost the rhizophere of the roots and they both work(I've used them both)

But this HAS NEVER BEEN A CONFO ABOUT IF CANNA WORK OR DOESNT... (except for cannazyme IMHO work about half as good)

MY POINT IS I CAN SKIN THE SAME CAT FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR...

And NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID ARGUES THIS.....

But keep doing what works for you and please allow others to except this free info.. Let them decide if its a good idea...Cause again your not even using canna products (from your own words)
AND WE ALL ARE...(even if mines homemade)

O

As far as california who's from there?
lol 13 states approved medical useage or decriminalized possesion... Are you not hip to this?

Why give your $ away? If I gave you a recipe for free gas would you tell me to go fuck myself... Bp is a great companiy and we should all keep buying there product cause it works?
 
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organicfreak

Guest
IM NOT GOING TO LIST ALL THE RECIPE HERE,BUT YOU CAN GO TO THE DIY NUTE THREAD "right here on the farm in advance techniques"....
Here some names to get your mouth watering from all the $ you can save...
1. clearex
2. hammer head
3. moab
4. connisuer
5. budblood
6. overdrive
7. humic acid
8. fulvic acid
9.cannacoco a,b
10. pgr's
11.ph up's down
12. carboload
etc.....
 
S

Snow Crash

150
18
haha snow you work for nute companies????
Lol your miss informing every1 on how much $ you save...
I've done the math twice on enzymes alone...
SO WERE GOING TO HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE...

No. I do not work for any nutrient company. I know what I am talking about though, despite your opinion on my state of confusion.
I am misinforming no one.
Can you show me the "math" you've done on enzymes while all alone...
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW...

I'm not commercial AND I SAVE 1000"S HOW???
CAUSE I SPENT UNDER A 1000$ And now have almost a life time of salts/additives..

According to your agument you spent 100 a month x 12 is 1200 and guess what next year your spending another 1000 guess what next year another 1000$ LOL GET MY POINT? iLL STILL HAVE MOST OF MY INGREDIENTS 5 YRS LATER... you'll still be buying from hydrostores every month/yr

So please dont undercut what I'm saying lol unless your a nute companie troll then IT ALL MAKES SENSE... Why would you want the farm saving 1000$?

When did I say $100 per month? I said on a grow. I'll do three grows per year. So it's going to cost me $300, not $1200. Over the course of 4 years, and a dozen grows... Maybe I'll save $1000, but at like $1 per day in savings. For the sake of having a little control with my ratios and not having to pay now for salts I won't be using for 4 years I'm not all that concerned over what is not significant savings.

Think of it this way: At the age of 18 I started an estimated $17,000 a year habit before learning how to grow. I did this for 7 years... You act like saving that last couple hundred bucks is what will "really" save me some cash. Not so much. At this point I have offset all of my smoking, and my partners smoking, and am already saving thousands per year just by growing.

Saving money is a good thing. Don't get me wrong... I just think you're making a much larger issue out of nutrients than you should be.

Rhizotonic is made from chix manure thats the only differnece in mycomadness...
There both there to boost the rhizophere of the roots and they both work(I've used them both)

But this HAS NEVER BEEN A CONFO ABOUT IF CANNA WORK OR DOESNT... (except for cannazyme IMHO work about half as good)

Do you work for Canna? Can you site some place that lists chicken manure tea as a potent root enhancer? The stuff is made from a lot of things, many of them from the ocean. Maybe you're confusing it with another product...

MY POINT IS I CAN SKIN THE SAME CAT FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR...

And NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID ARGUES THIS.....

But keep doing what works for you and please allow others to except this free info.. Let them decide if its a good idea...Cause again your not even using canna products (from your own words)
AND WE ALL ARE...(even if mines homemade)

O

Wait... You're skinning a cat for pennies on the dollar and claiming to be part of the group who is using Canna Nutrients... All at the same time. Odd...

I have been using Canna coco and Canna nutrients for the last 3 years. It is just now that I've decided to stop using them. This makes me an experienced and qualified user of the product and not some SCREAMING IN CAPLOCKS blithering fool tripping over his own words.

I'm sorry you feel like I'm twisting peoples arms and demanding they do what I say. I don't think anyone who visits this thread will have any choice but to listen to what you say. I mean, you post after yourself rather than editing your post above. Maybe to get your post count up, because things like that are important to people like you, or to just get more attention. Whatever the case... They are going to make the choice to "except" what you have to say regardless of my presence here.

As far as california who's from there?
lol 13 states approved medical useage or decriminalized possesion... Are you not hip to this?

Why give your $ away? If I gave you a recipe for free gas would you tell me to go fuck myself... Bp is a great companiy and we should all keep buying there product cause it works?

I am very hip to the progression of Medicinal Cannabis across the US and I am actively involved in the encouragement of properly classifying it as a Schedule 3 controlled substance at the federal level. Thank you for asking.

Many people are from California. As the 6th largest economy in the world, with more medical card holders than any other state (though Colorado is coming up) you'll find many people online hail from the Golden State. I've actually lived in 3 different pro-mmj states and wanted to site prices people are paying to compare your method of savings versus mine. I'm not in California anymore either... so... to answer your question... Maybe 55 million people live in Ca, but neither of us do.

I'm not giving away my money. Your nutrients are not comparable to "free gas" because they are not free. If you said "buy this huge tank of petrol, it's all the gas you'll need for 5 years, you'll get a really good deal on it." I would need to weigh out the options. Spend more now and get stuck with this fuel but save money over time or spend less now and have more versatility (and the ability to change fuels) but spend more over time.

If you came to me with a free formula for gasoline I'd point up to the sky and say that if I could just capture 0.00001% of the energy from the sun I'd have all the power I need for this year. Why make something when it falls from the sky for free. All I have to do is collect it.

:confused0054:

I think the concept I'm trying to get across is that every grower should find something that works best for them. You very obviously have strong feelings about a perceived greatness of buying bulk salts. I think you're ignoring many other factors and making claims that are a little outrageous based on your opinion of what other people are spending on nutrients.

When you break it down to what you spend "on the street" to what you spend growing your own, that's a huge savings. Then you can remove the power company from the equation by growing under the sun. That can be another huge savings. But at this point you've taken the original cost, cut it down by 80%, then cut that cost down by another 80%. The final savings on nutrients by going with a bag of pre-made salts is going to be like 1% of the total "savings pie."

Not to devalue the importance of saving money when and where you can... but people should feel free to spend their money where they like to. I appreciate your opinion here and think that many other people will as well. I support your use of these salts and look forward to seeing your phenomenal results.
 
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organicfreak

Guest
snow sorry for my tone..
I don't like to fight in these forums,but to learn and then pass on info..

couple of points

1. this thread is about canna coco
Which is very expensive ,but clean and ready to use @ 30$ a bag
I was just informing all. That all other cheaper coco is dirty and needs to be flushed, Then soaked in a ph adjusted water and a coco buffer (basically calmag+) for 24hrs.
I struggled myself with different bales of coco until I found out how to prep coco

2. after pics were provided you can obviously see they are plants no longer rooted clones... imho since I to veg for 3 month his plants needed 900-1300ppm food 1300-1600 ppms of food and additives(like mycos,kelp,humic,silica,molasses etc) NOT 550 PPMS THAT HE WAS FEEDINGThis was clearly his problem and he even agreed. then your post(paraphrased) you disagreed...????

3. either ph or combination of the low ppms...
was locking him out cause he even said he was @ 6.2-6.5 and coco has explosive growth in the 5.8 range

4.math:
imho Ive given the math 2 time for enzymes
A.10ml of carefree lake to 160 gal of water...
B.compared to hygrozymse, sysizyme cannazyme, 10ml to 1GALLON
THAT'S MAKES 20 times of GALLONS TO HYDRO STORES 1 GALLON

Imho you shooting of #'s AS IF THER FACTUAL,but there NOT there just your numbers you use.. THIS IS WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID YOUR BEING MISLEADING I just quoted real factual #'s.. you know like manufacture rates x actuall feed gallons
That any hobbyist commercial or whatever Gardner can apply his/her own gallons of feed a week and and multiply by.5ml with care free or 10ml if they buy hydrstore zymes
PROVING THE HYDRO/NUTE COMPANY'S ARE RIPPING THEM OFF.
Your number give no imput as to how many gal you feed. how often you feed how many ml of each you feed...
YOU JUST QUOTE A FICTITOUS # that I or the group can not compare and see if what your sayig is FACTUAL

5.smart pot especially LARGE 20 GALLON 1'S as we were discussing prior to your 1st post
(1) 20 gallon s.p. if filled 75% of the way is ruffly 15gallons
A. This will need enzyme so save your money and buy carefree lake enzymes
B. WILL TAKE ABOUT 2 BAGS OF CANNA COCO 60$
Where (1) HOMEMADE BALE VERSION'S 10$ BUT you have to clean and prep cannas ready to go..
C. Imho watering coco you need runoff. meaning you fill the pot until water flows out the bottom... since I use these with 15gal of coco I know it takes 4-6 gallons to get a 20 -25% runoff...
This is 12-18 gallons a wk @ 10 plants that 180ml a wk
THIS IS NO WAY COMMERCIAL BUT TOTALLY HOBBYIST LIKE I STATED.. Just in enzymes you would use 180 ml of cannazyme a wk
140$ gallon = 3785ml / 180ml hydrostore zyme's = 21 wks of feed 6months of use
140$ gallon carefree 3785ml / 10ml= 378 weeks of feed thats almost 7.5yrs of use
WITH THIS MATH HOW DO YOU SAY ANYTHING IN RETURN?

o
 
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