Canna: I've tried other avenues...

[Terpeneluv]

But I have to ask this question. I've been researching everywhere trying to find an answer to Cannas Cannaboost/ PK 13/14.

I realize the PK is down the road a bit and most just use it for a week. I'm in week two of flower and both those products will be here tomorrow. Like everything else I've used ( after overfeeding), I use about half of what's recomended. So I think I have a pretty good understanding of what my girls like.

Question: when using these additives, does the amount used include the normal A B or do I adjust the base nutes? In other words, say I feed at 700ppms normally. Now when I add this stuff does it go on top of the 700ppms or do I lighten the load to get to 700 with Boost? They're looking pretty good and I'm gun-shy to go to heavy after an experience the first few weeks.

I've read a lot everywhere and I can't find an answer. However, this is the source I trust the most.

Sorry for the novice question but I'ma novice.

 

[Aqua Man]

But I have to ask this question. I've been researching everywhere trying to find an answer to Cannas Cannaboost/ PK 13/14.

I realize the PK is down the road a bit and most just use it for a week. I'm in week two of flower and both those products will be here tomorrow. Like everything else I've used ( after overfeeding), I use about half of what's recomended. So I think I have a pretty good understanding of what my girls like.

Question: when using these additives, does the amount used include the normal A B or do I adjust the base nutes? In other words, say I feed at 700ppms normally. Now when I add this stuff does it go on top of the 700ppms or do I lighten the load to get to 700 with Boost? They're looking pretty good and I'm gun-shy to go to heavy after an experience the first few weeks.

I've read a lot everywhere and I can't find an answer. However, this is the source I trust the most.

Sorry for the novice question but I'ma novice.

Additive so over and above what your feed is. Use as directed. I use monopotassium phosphate... Sooooo much cheaper and thats what they dissolve and dilute and then put into the bottle and slap a label on it then mark it up 1000x's.

 

[argo]

The best thing you can do is stop asking the wrong questions especially to someone who personalizes his growing based on feelings or his personal relationship with his ego learning the basics is a must...and knowing the 16 elements and what each one does is also important this is the only trade where the majority dont know or understand the tools of their trade...the majority learning by consensus makes good consumers not good cultivator's

 

[Aqua Man]

Additive so over and above what your feed is. Use as directed. I use monopotassium phosphate... Sooooo much cheaper and thats what they dissolve and dilute and then put into the bottle and slap a label on it then mark it up 1000x's.

I'm in hydro and use it a bit different. I add enough to raise my ppm by about 100. Then don't add anymore until my next res change halfway through flower. Then add again enough to raise 100ppm. 2 weeks before harvest I change res and do not add.

 

[Aqua Man]

The best thing you can do is stop asking the wrong questions especially to someone who personalizes his growing based on feelings or his personal relationship with his ego

Well said... I agree. If your just here to feed your ego and not to give advice or help.... Then fuck off.

 

[Terpeneluv]

The best thing you can do is stop asking the wrong questions especially to someone who personalizes his growing based on feelings or his personal relationship with his ego learning the basics is a must...and knowing the 16 elements and what each one does is also important this is the only trade where the majority dont know or understand the tools of their trade...the majority learning by consensus makes good consumers not good cultivator's


Just a newbie asking for advice, brother. Peace....

Aquaman: Thanks. That's the help I needed.

I thought it was a valid question, especially if you're new to nutes and cultivating the awesome plant.

 

[Terpeneluv]

Additive so over and above what your feed is. Use as directed. I use monopotassium phosphate... Sooooo much cheaper and thats what they dissolve and dilute and then put into the bottle and slap a label on it then mark it up 1000x's.

Haha, maybe someday Aquaman and I'm positive you're right. I sure the margins are absurd, but hey, I'll get there. You're only new once.

 

[Aqua Man]

Haha, maybe someday Aquaman and I'm positive you're right. I sure the margins are absurd, but hey, I'll get there. You're only new once.

Yup time and experience. You never stop learning or making mistakes and if you do then you have likely given up. Still learning and fucking up all the time here.

 

[az2000]

Question: when using these additives, does the amount used include the normal A B or do I adjust the base nutes? In other words, say I feed at 700ppms normally. Now when I add this stuff does it go on top of the 700ppms or do I lighten the load to get to 700 with Boost? They're looking pretty good and I'm gun-shy to go to heavy after an experience the first few weeks.

A common rule of thumb: cut the base nutes in half, and use the "booster" at half the labeled strength.

I have a spreadsheet (<<link) which will figure this stuff out for you. View the "readme" pdf first. There are three examples of using the spreadsheet. Once you understand those three examples, you can 1) enter your Canna products, and then 2) "mix" them according to your schedule and see the NPK ratios and PPM strengths which result. And 3) vary the mix to change the NPK ratios.

I like doing this because, instead of thinking in terms of "5ml of this bottle, 10ml of that," you're thinking in terms of the NPK proportions the plant is receiving. You can read your plant better, knowing how those proportions change through the grow (or with a "booster.").

The calculated PPMs are not exactly what you'll see when mixed. P & K are confusing because the label represents % of P2O5 & K2O (not elemental P&K). The measured PPMs are typically somewhere between the spreadsheet's calculated elemental P & K, and those compounds. (It drops the longer the nutrient solution sits out too.). If you "mixed" your schedule in the spreadsheet, you should see how the calculated PPMs track what you measure (in actual use). The calculated PPMs become a sanity check. (A reference point for what you know the result actually is.).

For example, if you feed 5ml "A," and 10ml "B", and that calculates to 350/420ppm, and then you add 5ml of the "booster." You can use those calculated ppms to walk the A+B amounts down to the non-boosted calculated ppm. If the NPK ratios are too high in P&K (relative to N), you can reduce the "booster," and raise the A&B. Just use the calculated PPMs as a target while modifying the *ratio* using the different bottles.

You might not get into it. But, I like it because I can quickly see what multiple bottles turn into when mixed together. And, how to recreate that using other bottles. I think it's more informative to know what the plant's receiving (in the *plant's* language, not the multi-bottle language of 5ml of the orange stuff, and 3ml of the blue stuff.). When you know you're feeding NPK ratio 1.8-1-2.2 in veg, then you have a *baseline* that you can compare other products too. If you thought of switching to something else, it wouldn't be a leap of faith. You'd know *exactly* how the nutrients are changing (if it's higher N, or lower K; if it's raising P higher/earlier in flower).

Also, if a schedule works for you, you can recreate those ratios using ordinary off-the-shelf stuff (fish emulsion, bat guano, potassium sulfate). I play around with that a lot. I think it helps to learn to "read your plant" when you know that this feeding's N is higher. Or, you're raising P by 30% instead of 10% in early flower. I like that insight. It's something you correlate to what you see in the plant.

 

[Aqua Man]

A common rule of thumb: cut the base nutes in half, and use the "booster" at half the labeled strength.

I have a spreadsheet (<<link) which will figure this stuff out for you. View the "readme" pdf first. There are three examples of using the spreadsheet. Once you understand those three examples, you can enter your Canna products, and then "mix" them according to your schedule and see the NPK ratios and PPM strengths which result.

I like doing this because instead of thinking in terms of "5ml of this bottle, 10ml of that," you're thinking in terms of the NPK proportions the plant is receiving. You can read your plant better, knowing how those proportions change through the grow (or with a "booster.").

The calculated PPMs are not exactly what you'll see when mixed. P & K are confusing because the label represents the % of P2O5 & K2O. The measured PPMs are typically somewhere between the calculated elemental P & K, and those compounds. (It drops the longer the nutrient solution sits out too.). If "mixed" your schedule in the spreadsheet, you should see how the calculated PPMs track what you measure (in actual use). The calculated PPMs become a sanity check.

For example, if feed 5ml "A," and 10ml "B", an thats calcualted as 350/420ppm, and then you add 5ml of the "booster." You can use those calculated ppms to walk the A+B amounts down to a similar calculated ppm. If the NPK ratios to high PK (relative to N), you can reduce the "booster," and raise the A&B. You just use the calculated PPMs as a target while modifying the *ratio* using the different bottles.

You might not get into it. But, I like it because I can quickly see what multiple bottles turn into when mixed together. And, how to recreate that using other bottles. I think it's more informative to know what the plant's receiving (in its language, not the multi-bottle language of 5ml of the orange stuff, and 3ml of the blue stuff.). When you know you're feeding NPK ratio 1.8-1-2.2 in veg, then you have a *baseline* that you can compare other products too. If you thought of switching to something else, it wouldn't be a leap of faith. You'd know *exactly* how the nutrients are changing (if it's higher N, or lower K; if it's raising P faster, earlier in flower).

Also, if a schedule works for you, you can recreate those ratios using ordinary off-the-shelf stuff (fish emulsion, bat guano, potassium sulfate). I play around with that a lot. I think it helps to learn to "read your plant" when you know that this feeding's N is higher. Or, you're raising P by 30% instead of 10% in early flower. I like that insight. It's something you correlate to what you see in the plant.

Good advice.
I don't like cutting nitrogen until late flower. Personally I keep my base nutes up. I find it's also better ratio that way but that's just me.

 

[az2000]

Good advice.
I don't like cutting nitrogen until late flower. Personally I keep my base nutes up. I find it's also better ratio that way but that's just me.

Me too. I wasn't suggesting the OP use a booster (now, or ever). But, if he's going to do it, it's nice to model it in the spreadsheet first, see what the result is.

The "cut the base nutes in half, use half the labeled booster amount" can still produce crazy NPK ratios (like 1-8-6) when the person might have felt more comfortable doing 1-4-3. If/when the OP doe this, it would be good to know what the NPK ratio is (and how the calculated PPMs compare to normal feeding). In the future the OP might try stronger or weaker boosting. Just cutting in half doesn't say much about what the result is, and whether to go higher or lower next time. It's just flipping a coin and hoping it does something good. If it doesn't, you don't know which direction to go next time.

That's what I like about the spreadsheet. It's not as ambiguous. Everything you do can be a data point for what you do next time. You can know how 1-3-2 compares to 1-8-6. Everyone says "learn to read your plants." But, an important part of that is to know what they're responding to. The multi-bottle schedules don't provide that info.

I got the idea to do this from the way hydro growers use the free hydobuddy program to mix bulk salts to get known targets (recipes).

 

[Aqua Man]

Me too. I wasn't suggesting the OP use a booster (now, or ever). But, if he's going to do it, it's nice to model it in the spreadsheet first, see what the result is.

The "cut the base nutes in half, use half the labeled booster amount" can still produce crazy NPK ratios (like 1-8-6) when the person might have felt more comfortable doing 1-4-3. If/when the OP doe this, it would be good to know what the NPK ratio is (and how the calculated PPMs compare to normal feeding). In the future the OP might try stronger or weaker boosting. Just cutting in half doesn't say much about what the result is, and whether to go higher or lower next time. It's just flipping a coin and hoping it does something good. If it doesn't, you don't know which direction to go next time.

That's what I like about the spreadsheet. It's not as ambiguous. Everything you do can be a data point for what you do next time. You can know how 1-3-2 compares to 1-8-6. Everyone says "learn to read your plants." But, an important part of that is to know what they're responding to. The multi-bottle schedules don't provide that info.

I got the idea to do this from the way hydro growers use the free hydobuddy program to mix bulk salts to get known targets (recipes).

I use hydrobuddy same kinda deal. Punch in my base nutes, takes my tap water makeup into account and then can tweek with anything like. Kinda why I prefer dry nutes, I don't have to reverse engineer products.

 

[az2000]

I use hydrobuddy same kinda deal. Punch in my base nutes, takes my tap water makeup into account and then can tweek with anything like. Kinda why I prefer dry nutes, I don't have to reverse engineer products.

I tried to do this in hydrobuddy around 2014. Even though hb is much more powerful (you tell it the products you have, and the nutrient profile you want to achieve, and it will tell you how much of each product to use), I couldn't figure out how to do what I wanted to do. It may be possible to do in hb. But, I couldn't get there as directly as I wanted to.

Sometimes my brain works differently and I have to do it a certain way. To me, I was thinking in terms of modelling what is actually happening with bottles. Whereas, HB seems more gearted toward "these are the products I have... I want this nutrient profile, tell me what to use." It's very powerful as a problem-solving machine. But, to me, I wanted to peck around at things, see what happens when mixing things. More of a forensic tool than a problem-solving tool. A more direct way to see how tweaking a schedule affects the result.

Hydrobuddy is definitely worth looking at. Everyone should be familiar with it. As a free software, it's like the PKzip of gardening (as PKzip was to computing in the 1980s). Everyone should be familiar with it. I'm not not trying to be what it is.

 

[cemchris]

I tried to do this in hydrobuddy around 2014. Even though hb is much more powerful (you tell it the products you have, and the nutrient profile you want to achieve, and it will tell you how much of each product to use), I couldn't figure out how to do what I wanted to do. It may be possible to do in hb. But, I couldn't get there as directly as I wanted to.

Sometimes my brain works differently and I have to do it a certain way. To me, I was thinking in terms of modelling what is actually happening with bottles. Whereas, HB seems more gearted toward "these are the products I have... I want this nutrient profile, tell me what to use." It's very powerful as a problem-solving machine. But, to me, I wanted to peck around at things, see what happens when mixing things. More of a forensic tool than a problem-solving tool. A more direct way to see how tweaking a schedule affects the result.

Hydrobuddy is definitely worth looking at. Everyone should be familiar with it. As a free software, it's like the PKzip of gardening (as PKzip was to computing in the 1980s). Everyone should be familiar with it. I'm not not trying to be what it is.

For what you want to do

You can select your products (and put in your customs) select the proper mixing size and then hit calc.

The results tab you can change the input of each substance to get the total NPK output in the selected mixing size.

Other way is to use the "copy commercial nutrient" button. That will break down 1 thing at a time to the suggested mixing ratio and give you your results. This is good since it will add it to the left for a formula you already have saved or you can stack multi on top of each other and will add to the total breakout with each one. 1st one is way more useful. I usually only use this to get the base reading of something at 1g per gal or reversing a bottle of something.

 

[argo]

cogos is cleaner and cheaper lol i got that beat for 30 years in fact ill put my formulations against anything you got buddy you will never find out or understand why mine will be superior than anything you can come up with or anything on the market sorry bud and you are usuing inferior ingredients

 

[argo]

But I have to ask this question. I've been researching everywhere trying to find an answer to Cannas Cannaboost/ PK 13/14.

I realize the PK is down the road a bit and most just use it for a week. I'm in week two of flower and both those products will be here tomorrow. Like everything else I've used ( after overfeeding), I use about half of what's recomended. So I think I have a pretty good understanding of what my girls like.

Question: when using these additives, does the amount used include the normal A B or do I adjust the base nutes? In other words, say I feed at 700ppms normally. Now when I add this stuff does it go on top of the 700ppms or do I lighten the load to get to 700 with Boost? They're looking pretty good and I'm gun-shy to go to heavy after an experience the first few weeks.

I've read a lot everywhere and I can't find an answer. However, this is the source I trust the most.

Sorry for the novice question but I'ma novice.

this is simple tell you what ill send you a large sample of cogos original after you use it you will never look back

 

[argo]

Good advice.
I don't like cutting nitrogen until late flower. Personally I keep my base nutes up. I find it's also better ratio that way but that's just me.

if you cut nitrogen at all it should be very late into flowering

 

[az2000]

this is simple tell you what ill send you a large sample of cogos original after you use it you will never look back

WARNING: Before giving Argo/Cogos your personal info, see this thread about Cogos having a relationship with the DEA. (<<link).

 

[Terpeneluv]

Wow guys, thanks. That's a TON of information to consider. Love it.

Yes, Aquaman. Mistakes will be made and that's how we learn. Of course, you want to avoid them when possible, but when it does happen, hopefully it's never forgotten. I tell my new people at work this all the time.

As far as Canna A&B, it really doesn't make sense that you can use those two products only from start to finish given distant stages require diff NPK levels. According to Canna, you can do that, but I'm skeptical that you would get the same results compared to using different levels at different times. Has anyone done straight A&B from start to finish? Am I wrong on this?

 

[az2000]

As far as Canna A&B, it really doesn't make sense that you can use those two products only from start to finish given distant stages require diff NPK levels. According to Canna, you can do that, but I'm skeptical that you would get the same results compared to using different levels at different times. Has anyone done straight A&B from start to finish? Am I wrong on this?

Many people have grown cannabis from veg through harvest using NPK ratio 1-1-1 (like Jack's Classic 20-20-20). I've done it using MiracleGro Tomato (18-18-21, a ratio of 1-1-1.2), and Grow More - Sea Grow (16-16-16).

You should try it sometime, just so you can compare varying the NPK ratio. I don't use a franchised multi-bottle program. I made up my own using Sea Grow and fish emulsion, other stuff you can find on the shelf at ordinary stores. I see a difference raising N in veg (like, ratio 2-1-2) and P in flower (like 1-2-2). But, I don't know if the diference is a positive one. It could be stress to the plant, for all I know. Using ratio 1-1-1 all the way through works very well. The plants look healthy at harvest. I use Pennington Alaska kelp in late veg as a bud "hardner" or booster. (The growth hormones in the kelp).