Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome

[Ignignokt]

I know someone who was recently diagnosed with Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. She was a chronic (40+ yr) smoker, self medicating for bipolar disorder and anxiety. A couple of years ago she started having nausea issues. And as she would smoke for nausea - causing a vicious loop. The syndrome appeared some 10 or so years after she began using dispensary strength medicine with consistently high THC levels and had added high CBD tincture at the suggestion of her Psych Doctor.

It took quite a few hospitalizations until eventually a doctor familiar with the syndrome figured it out when none of the heavy-duty nausea medications would work - by which time she had already had a colon resection because of repeated hospitalizations due to gastric issues. She ceased using ( most diagnosed patients find they cannot, she is pretty strong willed and wanted to stop feeling like crap ) and has been fine ( no nausea or gastric stuff ) ever since.

So - this thing is relatively rare and is not well understood. But it does exist. I'd never heard if it before she was diagnosed. Many doctors flailed at this problem she had over a period of maybe two years. Once she stopped smoking and using tincture - It hasn't come back.

 

[Strthistle]

Are you working with doctors only, or also with someone like a registered dietitian?

I'm going through my primary care doctor and the gastroenterologist she referred me to. No dietitian as yet, I've been able to keep my nutritional needs met so far- electrolyte levels are normal and hydration is at least passable.
I just feel like my doctor has decided I'm a drug addict and not to be trusted, so she doesn't really want to invest anything more into my diagnosis or care.

 

[Seamaiden]

That's really messed up. And insulting on a deep level.

A good RD will help you with a lot more here, especially if they've been LEAP trained.

 

[Strthistle]

That's really messed up. And insulting on a deep level.

A good RD will help you with a lot more here, especially if they've been LEAP trained.

Thank you. It really helps me just talking about it some, especially to have supportive words when I'm facing such difficulties in my correspondence with my doctor.

 

[corey wiley]

I have read some people think that it is actually Azadirachtin products like Azamax & Azatrol... Aza-Sol used as pesticides that are causing this and not the actual cannabis. I'm not saying that this is true or not but it might be something worth looking into since CHS is so little understood.
here is one link
...

 

[Seamaiden]

Interesting, thanks for the share. Someone in a group I used said it's to do with CBD and the gut.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

I had the same EXACT thing happen to me as " CaliShark"!!! but I got there from smoking high concentrated hash/oils I made from just too much bud I had(all was grown organic by me so I know I was good)... first of all before I got sick & lost 60 pounds, almost 1/3 my body weight ,, I smoked only flower, I generally had a very active life style, I do automotive body work,, lots of sanding, prep, primer for paint,, I fucking loved it,, smoke a bit of flower in morning, cup of coffee, id be at it all day,,, I smoked a good 14 years before I started smoking concentrates,, so for a good year I smoked hash/oils,, a lot through out whole day,, drinking coffee all day,, it seemed to give me a more energy high then flower,,, I was very active,, mostly sativa dominate strains......it started with me having a very upset stomach in morning,, tired,, nauseous, vomiting,, very bad night sweats,, pillow/bed sheets would be soaked in sweat,, lots of pains in joints, headache, sore, weak, hard to concentrate/think,, my kidneys/eye lids/liver/spleen/colon/bladder would pulsate real bad at times(where cannabinoid receptors are located at),, it was worse if I woke up early,, if I slept late a good 9-11(sometimes 13hours) hours it seemed to be less... I slept a lot,, I was freaking out I lost a lot of weight, I couldn't eat anything,, I was pale, black bags under eyes,, was in & out of hospital,, blood tests, MRI, cat scans,, tests up on tests & docters said I was normal, couldn't find out what was wrong with me. I was for first time in my life "scared" I was dieing & I kept smoking thinking I would get better so I finally looked up on this condition & many people had this same thing CHS, also everyone said how hot showers helped a lot, I remember how hot showers in mornings helped me a lot, with stomach pains & vomiting,, so I decided to stopped smokin for a month it was fucking HARD! couldn't sleep few days, fast heart beat, very irritable,, slowly after 2-3weeks the stomach pains/vomiting subsided, I gained my weight back started eating... then after 2 months my dumbass started smoking again,, I smoked only medical cannabis flower a little only through bong/water or vapes,, like 2-3 hits a day & I seemed to be fine,, but when ever I smoked from a pipe/joint I would get real sick,, even if I did smoke from vapes/bongs a lot I would get sick,, but my weight was normal,, I still need to stop completely it is very hard, I live in a very stressful house,, I have bad night sweats, bags under eyes, I sleep ALOT, I seem to have a lot of pains, lots of sore joint pain, always thirsty,, my eye sight got worse,,I always get better when I sober up of the bud,, I'm planning on quiting completely again because I cant live like this, it seems like I'm 70 years old but I'm 30..)=

 

[Ignignokt]

Well, I can't quite bring myself to 'like' what you shared, however I appreciate your sharing it. The person I know who had severe symptoms abstained for months and has only recently returned to consuming flower. It would seem this ( Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome ) would be a great choice for someone's PhD thesis - I'm a bit too far down my river to pick it up. I'd bet a case could be made ( given emerging use patterns of concentrates ) to fund research - I think there will be plenty of 'data points' (diagnosed patients) soon enough.

 

[Ignignokt]

And wouldn't ya know it - I was supplying the above mentioned friend with flower (with a warning about how well I did with it, tested 21% THCa ) and the syndrome returned this week. She got a bit too frequent on the tokes and started barfing for three days. So heads up, forewarned and all that jazz. You can harsh your own existence with excess, apparently of sorts we had not anticipated.

 

[lino]

I have read some people think that it is actually Azadirachtin products like Azamax & Azatrol... Aza-Sol used as pesticides that are causing this and not the actual cannabis. I'm not saying that this is true or not but it might be something worth looking into since CHS is so little understood.
here is one link
...

The link is broken.

But I agree. The original complaint had to do with concentrates.... Prop from a dispense, just speculation.

@CaliShark if you're still using cannabis try a pure indica that is homegrown and no pesticides, no concentrates , small hit. your body may not want cannabis anymore.

NOTE: are U dabbing,? heating element vs butane Flame on oil. you can get gas from the flame. Also,,, the waxes and oils still have gas in them. Cold press Rosin hash may not get ya as sick if ignited with a heating element.

 

[Douglas.C]

I have read some people think that it is actually Azadirachtin products like Azamax & Azatrol... Aza-Sol used as pesticides that are causing this and not the actual cannabis. I'm not saying that this is true or not but it might be something worth looking into since CHS is so little understood.
here is one link
...

I'm looking for folks who have CHS, from cannabis which has NOT been treated with neem or azadirachtin products. So far, every single person I've run across with CHS has had some form of neem or azadirachtin on/in their cannabis.

BENADRYL and Activated charcoal work wonders. It takes a long time for the aza to leave the body, the activated charcoal helps pull the remaining aza out quicker. Bendaryl? Yes, (or some other anti-histamine) because it's an allergic reaction. I've been poisoned enough times my colon is having issues as well.

I've done side by side experiments with multiple strains using root drench and sprays the first 2 weeks of flower. Untreated cannabis brings nothing but relief. The use of the treated cannabis caused CHS. These plants went up to 74 days after treatment, still caused CHS.

So, who has truly clean cannabis and still getting CHS from it? Keep in mind that aza soaks into resin and any gear you've been using with aza is contaminated with aza. Clean your gear before making the 'clean meds' experiment.

Why so many people pointing to dabs and concentrates as the issue? They're concentrated extracts of plants lightly treated with aza. Smoking a few bowls a week of lightly contaminated aza won't cause much of an issue for folks, they'd hardly even notice they've been poisoned. Take that same cannabis and concentrate it and BAM... aza overload and CHS sets in.

Having colon issues? Metamucil twice a day and Mirilax once a day will help out significantly. F'ing rude how this has affected my life for nearly 8 years now. Ever since hitting Cali and their "Oh, it's ALL ORGANIC" bs. Straight neem has 200 - 2000ppm of azadirachtin in it.

So, where are the reports of non-treated cannabis causing CHS? I'd love to see them.

 

[Ignignokt]

FWIW - I don't use Neem or any other contaminants. I smoke what I grow - so that ain't gonna happen on my watch. The syndrome seems to appear in chronic users who have developed significant tolerance to THC and some have switched to concentrates to chase their desired state. To get into the local dispensaries, testing for such contaminants is required, even for concentrates. Not all CHS patients consume concentrates - but that would seem a rapid way to get sick if you have the problem. My friend doesn't use concentrates (hash, etc.) any longer, not that she used them much anyway.

Anyhow, I doubt your assertion has much (shareable, reproducible ) supporting data. I know that is frustrating, but there you have it. It might be actually wonderful if it were true, however uninformed the diagnosis.

Contamination is a serious problem: http://www.emeraldreport.com/why-testing-weed-for-fungus-may-save-your-life/

 

[Douglas.C]

I've come across one instance now where it's been stated both the cannabis and the smoking gear was clean.

Unless you're in canada, the local dispensary is not testing for azadirachtin/neem residues, since they're all assuming it's a safe "organic" product. None of the states are at present.

However unlikely the same symptoms can appear from both cannabinoid and azadirachtin consumption, there is still a possibility some people do in fact have problems with cannabinods. Would truly suck if the majority of CHS sufferers were in that category.

My symptoms are completely from azadirachtin and can be specifically traced to it, no mistake.

 

[Seamaiden]

I have seen people throwing out tons of ideas and theories about what may be at the root of this. This is the first mention of neem I've seen. I am curious to know what's really going on.

The number one chant I read is "Grow your own! Grow organic!" But, neem is organic.

We need better testing and a set of protocols and policies for testing. That seems to be the only way to really get an idea of what may be causing this.

One thing is for sure, it's no good to shout down people who have experienced CHS. I'm glad more are comfortable coming out to discuss it.

 

[Douglas.C]

We definitely need testing to be done, agree completely.

The crazy thing is, if CHS from clean cannabis actually exists, the symptoms of azadirachtin (regular neem oil contains between 200ppm and 2000ppm of azadirachtin per fluid ounce) poisoning overlap and are so similar it's scary. What we really need is testing to pinpoint exactly which issues arise from which situation. Clearly being able to define what's going on is very important.

My colon feels like it has a section which has ceased to function. Right now I'm using metamucil twice a day and Miralax once a day, to keep things moving along properly. The miralax is a non-toxic laxative you can use daily, most laxatives are not healthy to use daily.

The most difficult part of all this has been dealing with doctors. I'm unable to tell them I use cannabis because they instantly lose all interest. They believe it's the cannabis only and I'm suffering from repeated poisonings over the last 9 years or so. They just tell you to go home, eat a bland diet and stop using cannabis. Extremely unhelpful.

When people say "all organic" these days, all I hear is the ICK. You actually have to question organic growers about what they use for pest control. When you ask them if they use pesticides, they say no. When you ask what they use to control pests, they mention neem or aza products. The misconception being their belief that all organic products are not pesticides. *facepalm*

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh God, that sounds awful. I've been having a very stressful situation affect my guts, too. Everything's turned to water. Metamucil is definitely *not* the fix, unfortunately my usual destressor (the act of grinding herb and then rolling the joint are my zen moments of the day) isn't working well. I looked up how to control stress-related issues like this, and all I got was stuff about IBS-D. I don't normally have IBS anymore, that was a childhood thing but now I'm pretty damn chill most of the time. Relatively I suppose.

And I will put BELLS on what you say about the docs (and nurses!). Keep in mind, I was raised by a doctor (he started out as a flight surgeon in the Navy) and a dietitian--health care professionals. In late '15 I was put down badly by a 9mm kidney stone that would *not* pass. At the time, I wasn't sure what it was, I felt like someone had punched me in the back and I just felt nauseous and AWFUL. Finally had to go to ER. There, I mentioned that I do use cannabis along with a PPI and hormones. That nurse LOCKED, hard, onto my cannabis use as the reason for me puking constantly. I kept telling him, "Dude, I get kidney stones. This is a kidney stone, I'm positive." He wasn't going to order any imaging, I had to insist, then insist that he go through my history at that ER, when he finally relented chiding me with, "You never complained about vomiting with the other kidney stones." YES I FUCKING DID!

Fortunately for me, I was brought up to debate damn near everything with medical professionals. And CAT scans are fairly accurate.

 

[Douglas.C]

Ouch, too loose is just as dangerous. :( Kidney stones are food related, foods your body doesn't digest well. Unless you find out what avoid food it is and cut it out, you'll be looking at getting additional stones in the future. Succkko!

Not a big fan of general M.D.'s myself. 7 years ago they had me using a walker to get around. I finally started looking up naturapathic info and told the white coats to get lost. Wow, talk about a difference. lol Took a LOT of research though. End result is I can work teenagers into the ground now and I'm approaching 50. LOL

In case I haven't posted it in this thread before, here's the link to the food search engine. I recommend everyone look up all the foods they're eating to identify their avoid foods. Cut out those avoid foods and you'll see improvements in your life, no question about it. :) My family doesn't follow any of the portioning advice from the D'Adamo site, we eat what we want. When you eat too much of a neutral or avoid food you can feel yourself getting uncomfortable, no weight gain or other issues though. Pretty cool stuff. :)

Body pH, knowing your parent's blood type and carefully reading ingredient labels are essential to making this work. The internet is full of people who made uninformed attempts at following this way of choosing foods. You'll find a lot of people who say it doesn't work. I feel sorry for them, my wife and I kept at it and learned quite a few reasons how you can mess it up.

Have you had the hypothermia? Sudden MASSIVE chills, in a warm room? Scary!

 

[Seamaiden]

I had a tumor of the parathyroid. I'm on the kidney stone diet (calcium oxylate are my type), but I also have high cholesterol. I have decided that a heart attack will kill me harder than a kidney stone, so I continue to eat heart-healthy foods that you're not supposed to with these types of stones.

I tend to have the opposite of hypothermia. Hot flashes! Woot!

 

[CelticEBE]

My good buddy CBDPete posted this today, and it reminded me of this thread so I thought I would share it with you guys.

 

[Graywolf]

My kidney stones were calcium carbonate from taking too many Tums for acid reflux. I stopped using calcium carbonate for an anti acid and addressed the causes of my reflux, so as to go from three occurrences in a decade to one in two decades.

I agree with everything that has been said about them being painful and consider them a standard to measure other things against. Prior to that time it was a knee injury that held that position.

My doctor fired me when I went on medicare, and my first replacement retired, so now I'm in an even larger clinic, where they not only don't remember what is in my file, but can't find it a disconcerting number of times. They seem to have more patients than they can keep track of, and their staff lacks the professional skills to keep my records straight.

I regularly consume cannabis concentrates via oral and vaporizing, though I no longer smoke. As a medical patient for a decade, my tolerance has gotten high, so I consume enough to be considered a heavy user. I also sometimes feel nausea out of the blue, usually associated with something like coffee on an empty stomach, but sometimes nothing I can put my finger on.

Not severely, often, or long lasting, but I do experience them periodically. The instant cure for me, is simply a sip of ice cold carbonated water, or even just ice water. The nauseous feeling has never been strong enough for me to actually retch or vomit.

I do like hot scalding showers, especially on my arthritic neck and shoulders, but feel no compulsion to do so for reasons other than hygiene and to relax all the knotted muscles.

I am not disputing or minimizing cannabis hypermesis, just noting my own personal experiences.

That leads me to the subject of pesticides that CEBE brought up, which I believe worthy of deeper investigation. An Oregonian newspaper survey of concentrates in the Portland area, revealed that a disturbing percentage did have residual pesticides.