caterpillar alert! please help!!

[burn out]

hi people

i grow a Skunk #1 plant (outdoor, soil, planted 1st June, ate BioBizz BioGrow at veg and BioBloom at flo) and is now in day #40 of flowering. It's a sensiseeds seed, on the web-site says 45-50 days flo time, but i also check to see cloudy/amber trich colour percentage with a microscope(i know this is the right rule to go by). anyways, i plan on harvesting at about 7 or 8 October.

the last three-four days i have a HUGE caterpillar problem!! my buds are formed densely already (you can see a pic at my thread "Leaves getting yellow, 6th week of flowering, Sk#1" in "Advanced Techniques & Problems"). I saw once a big green caterpillar about two or three weeks ago, i removed it and killed it right away, and though i was done (stupid!)

now the last days i observed 4 big green of those (about 1 & 1/4 inche length) and about 10 black smaller ones. All of them inside :eek: or on top :( of my dense buds. All of them removed and killed.

now i check twice a day and remove what i see (wearing rubber gloves always lol). what else can i do? i browsed the threads and found out BT or Spinosad spraying is a powerful solution, but only until 2 weeks before harvest. i have less time than that.. would it be risky to spray today?

the other solution, "netting", can anybody explain how this is done? maybe this is a better option for so close to harvest..

i also have neem oil. would it help spraying it over?

so, finally, if i choose just to hand pick the more caterpillars i can and harvest normally 7 Oct (i think early harvest would lead to bad quality weed, no good), my big question is:

-will these bastards just eat some of the bud and that's all, or will they affect it in any way that it may "spoil" or be dangerous??

thanks guys, really appreciate any help given, i'm in deep s*** right now!

 

[Cort]

Pull a sacrifice bud that you see caterpillars on and split it open. Bet you got shit inside.

Post up them pics

 

[Haggardass]

bacillus thuringiensis, its what they make mosquito dunks out of might not help you now but it will help you next time. They will affect your bud in a sense that they can and will wipe out alot of it, and when they shit inside your buds (they do shit it looks like PEZ) it creates a spot for mold to form. I dont think you would have to much og a problem spraying BT on it but idk, its safe to put in your dogs water bowl, maybe just combusting it is what bad?

 

[burn out]

thanks for replies.

from friday i check twice a day. i removed caterpillars on friday and saturday, but on sunday i doublecked and found nothing! :) so i think i'll just go with (a little) early harvest and do it tomorrow, that is day 44 or 45 of flowering, and i also checked yesterday with micro and show plenty of amber crystals, so i'll go with it!

i did find shit inside some buds. by PEZ you mean the candy? otherwise i don't know what you mean. anyway, what i found was small black pieces, like half or 1 mm in length, like tiny black rice. it smelled bad and i removed most of it.

moreover, in one or two of the buds where there was shit, i observed that the bud was fragile and crispy; it was like it had already been dried! when i touched it a little harder, it just crashed and collapsed in tiny pieces, like when grinding dried weed. i think this "dried" buds should NOT be smoked, what do you think? it's because of the caterpillar shit? i plan on throwing them all the crispy buds tomorrow and keep the "fresh" ones only, even if i lose plenty of stuff like this.. does anybody believe i should keep those buds?

thanks

 

[burn out]

and another question, sorry i know this can be considered out of the topic, and also a "noob" one, but i'm starting to run out of time so i'll just ask to clarify this in my head:

the well-known harvest criterion is:
trichomes colouring: 30% transparent, 40% cloudy, 30% amber (approx. values, can change according to the kind of high someone wants)

my question: when they say "trichomes", they mean the small "mushroom-shaped" crystals that be roughly seen sometimes by naked eye, but preferably can be well seen and examined by microscope. they have a longish body and a head on the top. so trichomes = crystals; (my avatar is showing trichs on a leaf)

but, when they say "hair" they mean the same thing?? or do they refer to the hair-looking stuff that is usually the first to grow and be shown in the nodes when flowering starts? these things tend to get red or brown when close to harvest. and they are easily visible by naked eye. they are also covered with crystals.
so, my guess would be that "hair" is NOT the same as crystals (or trichs).
is there a second harvest criterion based on hair status? maybe that it's time to harvest when they are red or brown?

thanks people! appreciate your help!

 

[Haggardass]

thanks for replies.

from friday i check twice a day. i removed caterpillars on friday and saturday, but on sunday i doublecked and found nothing! :) so i think i'll just go with (a little) early harvest and do it tomorrow, that is day 44 or 45 of flowering, and i also checked yesterday with micro and show plenty of amber crystals, so i'll go with it!

i did find shit inside some buds. by PEZ you mean the candy? otherwise i don't know what you mean. anyway, what i found was small black pieces, like half or 1 mm in length, like tiny black rice. it smelled bad and i removed most of it.

moreover, in one or two of the buds where there was shit, i observed that the bud was fragile and crispy; it was like it had already been dried! when i touched it a little harder, it just crashed and collapsed in tiny pieces, like when grinding dried weed. i think this "dried" buds should NOT be smoked, what do you think? it's because of the caterpillar shit? i plan on throwing them all the crispy buds tomorrow and keep the "fresh" ones only, even if i lose plenty of stuff like this.. does anybody believe i should keep those buds?

thanks

lol yep the candy, the buds were dried and crispy because they died probably from mold or they just got chewed through and it killed part, I personally wouldnt smoke them it could be mold, def from the caterpillar shit, when i get mold or mildew on a bud i cut out the surrounding but maybe 1/4 inch or more around it, and i never ran into problems when drying or smoking, be liberal with cutting it out the more bud you take from around the infected area the more chance of not having problems during dry or cure, in short you can keep em if you cut out infected areas.

 

[Haggardass]

and another question, sorry i know this can be considered out of the topic, and also a "noob" one, but i'm starting to run out of time so i'll just ask to clarify this in my head:

the well-known harvest criterion is:
trichomes colouring: 30% transparent, 40% cloudy, 30% amber (approx. values, can change according to the kind of high someone wants)

my question: when they say "trichomes", they mean the small "mushroom-shaped" crystals that be roughly seen sometimes by naked eye, but preferably can be well seen and examined by microscope. they have a longish body and a head on the top. so trichomes = crystals; (my avatar is showing trichs on a leaf)

but, when they say "hair" they mean the same thing?? or do they refer to the hair-looking stuff that is usually the first to grow and be shown in the nodes when flowering starts? these things tend to get red or brown when close to harvest. and they are easily visible by naked eye. they are also covered with crystals.
so, my guess would be that "hair" is NOT the same as crystals (or trichs).
is there a second harvest criterion based on hair status? maybe that it's time to harvest when they are red or brown?

thanks people! appreciate your help!

trichomes are what you have in your avatar, so yes the mushroom things, and the hairs they refer to are the calyxes, brown, white , pink, purple, red hairs. some people are able to harvest by the calyx color and how much they swell, I dont because some strains the hair changes faster then others, go by the trichs, but make sure the days flowering cooincide with the trich color some strains can go 80 days and still have clear and milky trichs, trichs vary in size and color from every strain, and species of cannabis.

 

[caregiverken]

Burn out:. those worms suck I know....
I dont think there is much you can do now. to late too spray anything and way too late for nets
maybe try to cut your losses and chop now?
Do you have any amber trichomes?

I found some damage and a tiny worm on one of my buds today..
.Im chopping some tommorrow to look for more..
Just a day or two early..but I have bout 10% amber on those

 

[burn out]

trichomes are what you have in your avatar, so yes the mushroom things, and the hairs they refer to are the calyxes, brown, white , pink, purple, red hairs. some people are able to harvest by the calyx color and how much they swell, I dont because some strains the hair changes faster then others, go by the trichs, but make sure the days flowering cooincide with the trich color some strains can go 80 days and still have clear and milky trichs, trichs vary in size and color from every strain, and species of cannabis.

i got a little confused. i thought "hair" is "item A" in the picture i attach below, and yes it can have many colours (but mostly red or brown); but i thought calyxes are always green, "item B" in the picture (the swollen green stuff that the seeds eventually come from if the female plant gets pollen from a male).

so, if by "hair" they mean the calyxes, how is item A in the picture called? and can someone harvest by the status of them?

Burn out:. those worms suck I know....
I dont think there is much you can do now. to late too spray anything and way too late for nets
maybe try to cut your losses and chop now?
Do you have any amber trichomes?

I found some damage and a tiny worm on one of my buds today..
.Im chopping some tommorrow to look for more..
Just a day or two early..but I have bout 10% amber on those

well i already chopped the crispy (dead :() buds. not many, thankfully. the rest of them are ok. it's good the infection is on a local basis so i chopped around the infection (like 1/4 or even 1/2 an inche around it as haggardass says above) and the rest of the crop looks ok. no caterpillars or their PEZ, lol

i have about 15% amber trichs, and the rest 85% is almost equally divided in transparent and cloudy trichs.. so it is a little early, but still it will have a nice high (more of a head high, but i believe it will have body effect too)

since things are going better the last days, and infection has stopped as well as the caterpillars, i think finally i will harvest on Thursday. it will have some more amber like this and a better high.

thanks

 

[burn out]

lol yep the candy, the buds were dried and crispy because they died probably from mold or they just got chewed through and it killed part, I personally wouldnt smoke them it could be mold, def from the caterpillar shit, when i get mold or mildew on a bud i cut out the surrounding but maybe 1/4 inch or more around it, and i never ran into problems when drying or smoking, be liberal with cutting it out the more bud you take from around the infected area the more chance of not having problems during dry or cure, in short you can keep em if you cut out infected areas.

thanks man that was really helpful

 

[squiggly]

thanks man that was really helpful

In your picture above.

A is a "hair". The correct name for this, botanically speaking, is a pistil. It is the site of pollination. B is a calyx.

That is to say, you have correctly identified these parts--and whoever told you otherwise was mistaken.

 

[Haggardass]

In your picture above.

A is a "hair". The correct name for this, botanically speaking, is a pistil. It is the site of pollination. B is a calyx.

That is to say, you have correctly identified these parts--and whoever told you otherwise was mistaken.

Ha I was mistaken for some reason I completely forgot about the pistils lol

 

[burn out]

In your picture above.

A is a "hair". The correct name for this, botanically speaking, is a pistil. It is the site of pollination. B is a calyx.

That is to say, you have correctly identified these parts--and whoever told you otherwise was mistaken.

thanks! i was so sure things are like this..

 

[Haggardass]

Just to let you know some people judge harvest by how much the pistils recede back into the calyx Idk how accurate it is.

 

[audius]

just moved to socal. & started tending my moms plants, she had them lil bastards on her plants. we sprayed them down & picked off the catipillers. now we got lil brown spots where they did there damage. i have tried to pluck them off but can not get it all. as far as your pic goes i would say your fine for harvesting . you might not have all amber trichs. but as long as there cloudy, your fine. from what ive been tought on the farm ,you dont have to have it all amber. cloudy is just fine. gives a good uplifting high, not couch lock & a nap. now when i was growing indo. i waited till i had 1/2 & 1/2. to harvest.

 

[BuckP]

Caterpillars, where we live aka tomato worms - see attached photo of one straight from a bud - absolutely can devastate a crop BUT are not necessarily grounds for jerking your crop. Yes, they SUCK if they decimate an entire cola without you noticing but just look for those tell tale brown fan leaves then look inside that bud where you'll likely find a the green liquid-filled caterpillar. (we wonder if they are psychoactive - hmm?) Cut out any area he's clearly been and you're fine. Mature cats are roughly 3/4" by 1/8" but you see some smaller, even tiny ones. I'll post a pic I made of one of mine.

The GOOD news is the cats you see hanging from drying buds are evacuating your drying bud! The cats are leaving if they're hanging below your buds. This is good - kill them - you can cut out any damage - sometimes it's minimal. The mere presence of caterpillars is not, in and of itself, a reason to toss your buds. Caterpillars and such are relatively organic pests which LEAVE once the buds are drying. We've found cats in buds with no damage - very gratifying - we got them just after they arrived and before they started chewing things up.
Cat damage can be widespread or remarkably spotty - look closely before you toss a plant. Sometimes you can have great buds next to damaged buds. Cats seem to move around but not necessarily from bud to bud. Cats absolutely can decimate your primo cola, what a bummer, even before you see that tell-tale, peculiar looking dead fan leaf which always indicates a caterpillar is present.
In truth, some of the dead, brown buds are NOT poop but simply dead buds which continue to contain thc. Caterpillars often chew through the main bud stem - which kills the bud - without actually eating it - they seem to prefer the stems.
The only way to kill them is by seeing and harvesting them, which is sketchy since once they duck inside a bud, they're well hidden until you see a peculiarly withered dead leaf at the point of entry.


My local grow shop just turned me on to a supposedly organic pesticide which supposedly zaps caterpillars called Safer - - apparently works great. However, there's a puzzle..... Hydro store man said Safer does kill cats but you must SEE them then spray it directly on them, according to the guy at the grow store. That's nice if you don't like squashing cats but, if I actually SEE them, I'm going to kill rather than spray them. Maybe some of you know more about this product.

We do put dead buds killed by cats into our shake. There's nothing wrong with those brown, dead buds - they contain T just like the green buds. We do NOT put any crumbly stuff or anything that looks like cat residue in the shake - it goes in the trash.

Caterpillars don't seem to be phased by even strong Neem and essential oils spray...dammit.

My main point is do NOT toss your plants because you have a few cats. Get rid of all you can find but harvest as usual then evaluate the damage. Like us, you may be surprised by how much good bud remains.

 

[MitchyNugz]

I had catipillers this year start to mess with my plants right when they started to bud....I sprayed them really well with azamax and they didn't end up damaging any buds!

 

[caregiverken]

Good post Buck!

Good info Mitchy..!

 

[BuckP]

Thanks for the "azamax" tip, Mitchy!. Are you saying you sprayed your girls after realizing you had cats and it zapped them in the buds? If so, that's great news - beats having to actually SEE caterpillars before applying Safer...

Btw, my experience has been caterpillars seem to go straight for sativas. (I agree with them on that choice...) Last season I had cats only in one humongous sativa girl. This year more sativa - more cats... Out of 8 strains they hit <only> the sativas - bastards. Just realized I lost one plant to the bastards, a Jamaican sativa. It was underdeveloped and in a spot where it was a bit more neglected so I blew it. Didn't realize the cats LOVED this strain til they were in most all of the small buds on this slow-to-mature plant. At harvest realized the destruction was extreme... However, those dead buds glisten with t so should be fine for concentrate.

 

[BuckP]

Azamax seems to be advertised primarily for spider mites which, thankfully, I've not yet experienced. Great to know it also works for caterpillars! Thanks for that wisdom, Mitchy. Curious if it works to repel or if it simply penetrates the buds to kill any caterpillars which might be present at the time of application. Just found a good link to info on Azamax which may contain that info: -