Chasing my PH

Roskito · Jan 28, 2014

im using tap water coming out at 450 ppm with a 7.8 ph. i know this is shitty water, but its what i have. Ive been chasing th ph for 3 weeks now. i started with vinegar until i got my hands on some real hydroponic ph down. but im still havin trouble. i cant keep the ph below 6.8. im adding so much of the ph down that my tds is skyrocketing and frying the plants. Any suggestions? im sure using RO water or distilled water will make the ph easier to control, right?

powerplant · Jan 28, 2014

Use General Hydroponics PH down or Mad Farmers they will add very little ppms. Also get the PH down for before adding anything to the rez, you will use less when doing so.
Add nutes recheck PH and go from there.

Roskito · Jan 28, 2014

ive been using general hydroponics ph down for the past few days. ive changed the res since and still am having issues. im using dutch buckets so it seems almost impossible to completely flush out the system. im going to try again. and see what happens. should i balance the ph of fresh res before i flush?

Seamaiden · Jan 28, 2014

Roskito said:
im using tap water coming out at 450 ppm with a 7.8 ph. i know this is shitty water, but its what i have. Ive been chasing th ph for 3 weeks now. i started with vinegar until i got my hands on some real hydroponic ph down. but im still havin trouble. i cant keep the ph below 6.8. im adding so much of the ph down that my tds is skyrocketing and frying the plants. Any suggestions? im sure using RO water or distilled water will make the ph easier to control, right?

You've got to first grasp how pH works--and with water in that range you're going to have to add a lot of pH adjuster to not only bring it down, but keep it down. Try getting it down to about 4, then see where it bounces to. Or, just use RO water, because you are correct, pH is easier to manipulate (not necessarily easier to control if you're not careful, as it has no buffering capacity).

You can also try mixing RO with your tap water, then pHing it.

urbanfog · Jan 28, 2014

currently using citric acid for down and baking soda for up when needed. You also can get a bottle of battery acid and dilute it (I believe 10-12 to 1, but double chk ) and have plenty of ph "down" for about a $8 bottle from the auto parts store.
either way its lots more stable than vinegar and cheaper then "ph up/down"

I ph my water, then add your nutes, let airate 5-24 hours, then ph again.

Good luck

Seamaiden · Jan 28, 2014

Just a note re: vinegar. To the best of my understanding, it's not an issue of stability, it's an issue of strength/pH. Vinegar is usually around 3, and IIRC that's a good bit higher than bottled pH adjusters.

Tnelz · Jan 28, 2014

Roskito said:
im using tap water coming out at 450 ppm with a 7.8 ph. i know this is shitty water, but its what i have. Ive been chasing th ph for 3 weeks now. i started with vinegar until i got my hands on some real hydroponic ph down. but im still havin trouble. i cant keep the ph below 6.8. im adding so much of the ph down that my tds is skyrocketing and frying the plants. Any suggestions? im sure using RO water or distilled water will make the ph easier to control, right?

Try something as simple as a Brita filter. Runs a gallon through and check ur ppms. I would venture a guess they will b at least half of ur water from the tap. Even run it through two times. Not a solution by itself but it will help and it's fairly cheap.

powerplant · Jan 28, 2014

Roskito said:
ive been using general hydroponics ph down for the past few days. ive changed the res since and still am having issues. im using dutch buckets so it seems almost impossible to completely flush out the system. im going to try again. and see what happens. should i balance the ph of fresh res before i flush?

No I would just flush and try again with the way I recommended. Still having trouble switch to Mad Farmer Ph down.
Your water is very hard you do run a Hard Water version of whatever nutes your using right? This may also help

urbanfog · Jan 28, 2014

the hard water "veg + bloom" is a nice option also. Dam near ph's itself :D

Roskito · Jan 28, 2014

thanks to all for quick responses. i broke down and ordered an ro filter. i dumped the rez and filled it, got the ph to 6, and ran it for 45 mins. it went up to 6.5 so i readjusted the ph down to 6. il run it again and check. the tds is at 650 without anything added but ph down and residual in buckets.

Tnelz · Jan 28, 2014

Roskito said:
thanks to all for quick responses. i broke down and ordered an ro filter. i dumped the rez and filled it, got the ph to 6, and ran it for 45 mins. it went up to 6.5 so i readjusted the ph down to 6. il run it again and check. the tds is at 650 without anything added but ph down and residual in buckets.

End of the day it was the best move u could make. Ur entire issue will be solved. Good luck bro!

Seamaiden · Jan 28, 2014

Roskito said:
thanks to all for quick responses. i broke down and ordered an ro filter. i dumped the rez and filled it, got the ph to 6, and ran it for 45 mins. it went up to 6.5 so i readjusted the ph down to 6. il run it again and check. the tds is at 650 without anything added but ph down and residual in buckets.

Take it down to 4, 6 isn't going far enough. It should bounce back up to around 6 or so if you push it to 4.

Roskito · Jan 28, 2014

ok thanks seamaiden. il try 4. is it safe to circulate the system with the ph at a 4? theyre seedlings only 2 weeks old.

Seamaiden · Jan 28, 2014

No, get it pH'd to that level first, give it 24hrs, see what it bounces to. That's your goal right now, see how much pH adjuster you need without making huge adjustments while it's active in the system. Use a smaller container and calculate up if necessary, but in my experience with fish, you're gonna kill 'em if you expose them to a pH of 4 and then expose them to the even harsher conditions of pH ranging. That's with fish, and while I think plants may be able to tolerate that a little better, I know that it'll kill vertebrate fish within hours, inverts in less time.

Get a 5gal bucket to play around with this adjustment stuff first, k? The other thing about it is that you won't be using up huge volumes of water trying to get a better feel for this, and you'll also not use up huge volumes of pH adjuster. Try it with vinegar first if you like, but citric acid also works very well IME.

Don't forget also that saturation levels of gasses like oxygen and carbon dioxide directly affect water pH, so aerate for that 24hrs, especially if (since?) the system's constantly circulating.

Roskito · Jan 28, 2014

ok so maiden, this might sound elementry, but this is my first grow indoors and using hydro (probably last), am i to expect daily changes in the ph of the system? if so, ideally what range? and should i adjust for the changes daily or 2x daily? maybe u have a link u can share that can shed some light on the nature of ph.

Seamaiden · Jan 28, 2014

I cannot answer those questions, again, I have never grown using this method. Ask me about how to handle aquarium fish, I can tell you a whole lot about that. :) Read up on folks like Amber and Jalisco Kid. There are some others, but names are escaping my brain (fart) at the moment.

Coir · Jan 28, 2014

Getting a water test to see just how much Calcium Carbonate is on your water would be a good idea. Most "pH down" products do not work well with water that is high in CaCO3 and you will get results like you are seeing "Alkaline rebound". Using Nitric Acid will solve the problem as it reacts with the CaCO3 and becomes CaNO3. Not only will the pH remain stable but you will get the benefit of the now available Ca and NO3. Unfortunately, Nitric acid is more dangerous to work and you need to be careful not to breathe the fumes or spill it on anything.
Once you have stabilized the starting water, you will see minor changes in pH based on the nutrient you are using, type of system, reservoir size, age of the plants, etc. There are many factors that go into this but daily monitoring and taking good notes will make it easy to develop a system.

rronnie166 · Jan 29, 2014

Roskito, are you growing in rockwool? I know from experience that it will never stablize no matter how long you soak it. I use rapid root now and rarely have ph issues

Canappa · Jan 29, 2014

Dont know if this will help but,I was just talking about this in another tread today I use Ionic does great with well water should help you IMO

Link:https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/any-ionic-nute-users.37907/

Roskito · Jan 30, 2014

rronnie166 said:
Roskito, are you growing in rockwool? I know from experience that it will never stablize no matter how long you soak it. I use rapid root now and rarely have ph issues

yea im using rockwool cubes in pearlite

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Seamaiden

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