Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

raincheck · Dec 4, 2011

What do you think about the use of hormones, cytokins, aminos and fulvics in your nutes

Snowblind · Dec 4, 2011

I know many of you have seen some of these pictures in my aliens thread. I wanted to post these here to show people what Jacks can produce. These was Jacks Hydroponic, Calcium Nitrate and Epsom salt and tap water, ebb flow, rocks, nothing else added...start to finish.

These flowers burn to a white ash. There is no nasty black ball after smoking or difficulty igniting the material with a heat source although I only recommend vaporizing if you chose to use cannabis. The jacks brings out great terpins and flavor compounds from the little extra Sulphur I believe. The aromas will be fully realized as will resin production. These nugs are plenty dense and it is hard to grasp their relative size in the pictures.

HeLLMuTT · Dec 4, 2011

I think they liked it snowblind.

;)

nice nice nice

Capulator · Dec 4, 2011

Darth Fader said:
Checking in. Finally got my Jack's.

Darth what kind of system are you running? What media?

In coco you can run a higher EC, but I would suggest starting around 1.2 and seeign how your plants like that before hitting them hard with the nutes. Snowblinds 3/2/1 (hydro/CaNO3/MgSO4) is a great place to start. Dilute as necessary.

Snowblind said:
I think I need a little more N with my Jacks mix with Rockwool cubes, specifically double stacked Hugos and Big Mammas. Im seeing a touch of yellowing in this run in the rockwool. The plants are true beasts as always with Jacks! I want to bring it closer to 140-150 N.

Big thanks to Capulator for helping me so much!

Good luck Darth!

Ill re read this thread to catch back up on what you guys have been talking about as I have not checked in for awhile.

No Bro... Thank YOU. We have been in this together. I cant wait to post the final picks of the MPB jacks. I got two liter bottles that look like they been rolled in glass shards.

raincheck said:
What do you think about the use of hormones, cytokins, aminos and fulvics in your nutes

Not using them. I was using fulvic, algen, superthrive (A bunch of shit really)... Now I am just using raw salts (mostly jacks). When I am running perfect plants with that, I will start adding more things one at a time to see if it makes a difference.

The fulvic makes my water brown. So does the algen. So does the kelp and the earthjuice hibrix... I do add some EWC/alfalfa tea like bi weekly... 1 cup / 10 gallons. I also spray with Ca25, and now Jaz rose spray as well, bi weekly.

I have become accostomed to clear water. I like it that way especially cuz I can see whats up with my res (algae, bacteria, etc).

tconch · Dec 5, 2011

snowblind

when using jacks do you flush or continue with nutes to harvest?

Snowblind · Dec 5, 2011

I continue with nutes until harvest. You can dilute as needed if you wish.

For the last few days this time I tried suger in the raw and citric acid mixed together. I used only citric acid as ph down during the last few days on top of this. Its not stable and wont hold the ph very well, but that is ok for a few day flush. Just check the reso often and add more as needed.

When using low Phosphorus the whole way you dont really need to flush much. I dont like to starve the plants at all really. You can cut back a little on the Calcium Nitrate towards the end if you wish as well. I generally feed them right up until the very end. If that makes you nervous go with what makes you feel good about whatever it is that you are doing.

Crysmatic · Dec 6, 2011

Capulator said:
I got two liter bottles that look like they been rolled in glass shards.

When I am running perfect plants with that, I will start adding more things one at a time to see if it makes a difference.

don't hesitate to post those pics!

How exactly will you improve upon perfection? my point is, adding more things will take you further from perfection.

kudos to you on using more salts...just a pinch away from full DIY :)

I have to find an article to back my hypothesis up, but the most fertile areas are near salt water. however, how do the plants receive Cl without the Na, which we know will kill them? Is soil selectively filtering ions?

raincheck said:
Im going to test out Crysmatic's version of jacks and see how it goes.

do you mean the 3-3-6 from post #387? i was just modifying capulator's formula to what i think will work better. i believe it's a solid formula.

the "crysmatic formula" that i like is basically 2-1-3-2-1. ppm is roughly:

N 149
P 46
K 188
Ca 147
Mg 73
S 85

3.3 g jack's pro (per gallon)
2.5 g calnit
0.4 g epsom
0.05 g CaCl2 (optional imo)

i can tell you that it works brilliantly in veg with 1.6EC (ymmv). i haven't yet convinced a grower to use it through flower, and i expect similar results to snowblind's formula (mine has relatively higher N). you can modify the formula to suit your environment and plants. hth

it's interesting how i've been using basically 3:2:1 K:Ca:Mg as well.

desertsquirrel · Dec 7, 2011

Crysmatic said:
I have to find an article to back my hypothesis up, but the most fertile areas are near salt water. however, how do the plants receive Cl without the Na, which we know will kill them? Is soil selectively filtering ions?

The most fertile areas are the grasslands and prairies of the central United States - as far from the ocean as possible.

And no, the soil doesn't selectively filter ions, the plants do. Because plants can only uptake ions in there most simple elemental and inorganic form they cannot use sodium-chloride, calcium chloride, etc as they are already bonded. If by chance the sodium, or the calcium, etc encounter a stronger chemical attraction the ions can be pulled away into another compound leaving the chlorine molecule free to be up-taken. Because this is very rare, (about 100 ppm of total plant mater is Cl) the plants only get what they need.

A prime example of this is in the case of N. N makes up something like 70% of our atmosphere. If that N was provided in a form that was usable by plants, plant matter would of absolutely taken over our planet. Because plants can only use N in the form of Nitrate nitrogen however, atmospheric nitrogen must first enter the nitrification cycle via soil microbes and only after mineralization become available for up-take.

Crysmatic · Dec 7, 2011

your statements are slightly misleading. the prairies are some of the world's most fertile lands. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Global_soils_map_USDA.jpg green is good. over farming (and not replacing organic matter) has left US soils deficient in many minerals since the 1930s. Canada's most fertile land is right between the great lakes.

plants absorb elements by osmosis - the pressure of differential concentration. if plants selectively absorbed elements, then overfeeding would be impossible.

LA Times:

Most Fertile Soil in U.S. Is Covered by Cities
Science File | IN BRIEF
February 14, 2004|From Times Staff and Wire Reports

U.S. cities have been built on the most fertile soil in the country, lessening the contributions of these lands to the food web and human agriculture, according to a NASA study. Though cities account for just 3% of U.S. continental land area, the land they occupy could produce as much food as the 29% of land area now used for agriculture.

Population reference bureau:

Today, approximately 3 billion people — about half of the world's population — live within 200 kilometers of a coastline.

Half of the world's wetlands disappeared in the 20th century, as did 50 percent of all mangroves, and nearly 60 percent of the world's coral reefs are seriously degraded — in some cases beyond recovery — or threatened by development and other human activities.5 Pollution from industry, agriculture, and urban areas is degrading the quality of much of the world's fresh water.

most of the population lives near water because it is essential to life, and eases transportation of resources. humans have been building cities on prime farm land.

another 'interesting' statement. i would hate a world ruled by plants - they're very capricious.

desertsquirrel · Dec 7, 2011

I am unsure what urbanization or contamination of fresh waters has to do with the discussion.

And i explained that plants selectively absorb kinds of elements, not quantities. Thus overfeeding or underfeeding is again not relevant to the discussion.

Capulator · Dec 7, 2011

DS is right about the rhizoshpere determining which ions can get in to the plant. Another reason why a diversity of chelates is a good thing.

Here is a good link to this:

http://www.jhbiotech.com/plant_products/chelation.htm

Capulator · Dec 7, 2011

Crysmatic said:
your statements are slightly misleading. the prairies are some of the world's most fertile lands. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Global_soils_map_USDA.jpg green is good. over farming (and not replacing organic matter) has left US soils deficient in many minerals since the 1930s. Canada's most fertile land is right between the great lakes.

plants absorb elements by osmosis - the pressure of differential concentration. if plants selectively absorbed elements, then overfeeding would be impossible.

LA Times:

Population reference bureau:

most of the population lives near water because it is essential to life, and eases transportation of resources. humans have been building cities on prime farm land.

another 'interesting' statement. i would hate a world ruled by plants - they're very capricious.

Los Angeles (on the coast) in its pure form is pretty much too hostile for humans. If Mulholland hadn't built the damn and the aqueduct hadn't been constructed then no people would survive (no fresh water, very little rain)

The best farming is not always by water...

I would say the best soils for herbs are under pine trees. lots of decompositoin and acidic soil. Filtered light.. Where there are pine trees you can grow great herb.

prometh · Dec 8, 2011

so how do you guys measure out the salts when you feed? you put em on a scale every time?

Capulator · Dec 8, 2011

prometh said:
so how do you guys measure out the salts when you feed? you put em on a scale every time?

Yes. Ohaus Dial-O-gram. Its really easy and you can plan ahead with:

1) dixie cups
2) saran wrap
3) rubber bands.

ttystikk · Dec 8, 2011

Capulator said:
Yes. Ohaus Dial-O-gram. Its really easy and you can plan ahead with:

1) dixie cups
2) saran wrap
3) rubber bands.

So how often do you feed, and on what schedule?

Darth Fader · Dec 8, 2011

Capulator said:
Darth what kind of system are you running? What media?

In coco you can run a higher EC, but I would suggest starting around 1.2 and seeign how your plants like that before hitting them hard with the nutes. Snowblinds 3/2/1 (hydro/CaNO3/MgSO4) is a great place to start. Dilute as necessary.

Thx Cap,
My plants just hit wk 6, so they're hungry. I made the switch yesterday and they're still looking great today. LOL - They seemed a bit "stankier" today.

3 gal smartpots, running unamended coco, wick fed, ro water.

Gonna run it like a bud of mine does w/ the following instructions:
"Fill a 5 gal bucket with 4 gal ro water, add 1tsp each and stir. Feed. Done" ... "For flush just feed regular water for a week."

around 750 ppm.
I'll probably continue top-feeding a little liquid budswell. MgSO4 only if she asks for it.

prometh · Dec 8, 2011

has anyone tried running jacks hydro in soil?

desertsquirrel · Dec 8, 2011

Its a fantastic profile for soil.

Capulator · Dec 8, 2011

ttystikk said:
So how often do you feed, and on what schedule?

I use about 130 gallons in my RDWC. Now what I am doing is the day after I change the water, I check the water level, pH, and EC. Then I top off and check again.

This way I can monitor the plants usage better than with an auto top off (which I have set up, but since it is going all the time I coudlnt know how much they are drinking in 1 cycle).

After I top off, i check EC, then I know how much they ate/if they are eating...

Capulator · Dec 8, 2011

Darth Fader said:
Thx Cap,
My plants just hit wk 6, so they're hungry. I made the switch yesterday and they're still looking great today. LOL - They seemed a bit "stankier" today.

3 gal smartpots, running unamended coco, wick fed, ro water.

Gonna run it like a bud of mine does w/ the following instructions:
"Fill a 5 gal bucket with 4 gal ro water, add 1tsp each and stir. Feed. Done" ... "For flush just feed regular water for a week."

around 7-50 ppm.
I'll probably continue top-feeding a little liquid budswell. MgSO4 only if she asks for it.

MAKE sure you dont add them at the same time. Add the hydro first, stir. then add epsom, stir, then cal nit...otherwise you will have fallout.

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

raincheck

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

Attachments

HeLLMuTT

Thinks of Stinks

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

tconch

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

Crysmatic

desertsquirrel

Crysmatic

desertsquirrel

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

prometh

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

Darth Fader

prometh

desertsquirrel

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

raincheck

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

Attachments

HeLLMuTT

Thinks of Stinks

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

tconch

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

Crysmatic

desertsquirrel

Crysmatic

desertsquirrel

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

prometh

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

Darth Fader

prometh

desertsquirrel

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

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