Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Big JAE · Nov 9, 2014

just my opinion but seems like your missing micro & macro nutrients + fulvic & humic acids by just using base powders unless I'm assuming wrongly in which I apologize. The 5ml of bio weed / kelp, is that a pure concentrated kind? Huge difference for me when I switched to a non harshly made pure concentrate. Like I said, just offering an opinion, just trying to be helpful if I can.
Here are a few pics:

Big JAE · Nov 9, 2014

We Solidarity said:
this room fed straight veg bloom @ full strength from the day they went in the pot, NOTHING ELSE but tea twice a month. Flush was a week ago, these are choppin tomorrow.

View attachment 456661
chem sis

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Afghani

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Moonshine Haze

I spend just over 700 dollars on nutes from cutting to harvest on a 25 light, 150 plant room. A week in cloners, six weeks in veg, then flower. I used to check ph but never adjust it (always sits between 5.8 and 6.4 with MY water, even after sitting for two days) so I haven't been pH'ing for about four months. Literally just dump the dixie cup in the res, wait 15 mintes, and water. Then I go spend all the money I save on new clothes and beer, which i drink out of my old measuring cup I don't have to use anymore.

And I could argue against AN all day, at least my wallet and sense of ethic could...

.14 cents a gallon, US company, and it saves me an hour every day. Oh and it works.
View attachment 456664

Well like I said the veg bloom works for me to, I did have Chris from Hydroponics Research blend me a special mix to my water analysis but this is where I think I got fucked over. My water heater blew a while back and when I looked inside it, it was full of TONS ANDF TONS of rust looking shit, calcium depositis, and god knows what! AND my neighborhood just had the main water pipes changed on my block. The neighbor said 3 days ago when we were chatting about my water heater that her water tastes and looks totally different now with the new mains they put in.

So, between having basically a shitbox / heater adding to my water along with the old water mains being changed, I'm pretty sure another water analysis is needed making the hard water special blend Chris mixed me off, causing my problems with the veg+bloom. But I haven't seen any difference in the AN plants. I'll just keep trying until I find the perfect balance of all in one nutrient mix because I also hate paying a dollar to AN.

I did get some new DYNAGRO all in one GROW and BLOOM formula samples from DYNAGROW and the box came with a bottle of rooting gel, 3 9 oz bottles of organic veg and organic bloom foliar spray mix I plan on trying out next. That's one hell of a garden though man, props to you. With a garden like that $700 should be lap dance singles for the strip club. I know if I had a garden like that with you said 25 lights, nutrient money would be the least of my concerns. The $2,000 electric bill would stress me out! lol

We Solidarity · Nov 9, 2014

Big JAE said:
just my opinion but seems like your missing micro & macro nutrients + fulvic & humic acids by just using base powders unless I'm assuming wrongly

without going into detail...you're assuming wrongly. As far as the organics go that's what the tea is for, and I'm using higher quality ingredients for the tea than most nutrient companies can get a hold of.

Seriously...look at the labels, all the same shit...you're just not getting ripped off with veg bloom and you're also not supporting a bunch of creeps. Go on AN's site and try to find ONE legitimate piece of information as to what their product actually is..."ph perfect" is a big farting vagina of a marketing idea, if your nutrient mix doesn't take care of pH by itself it wasn't right to begin with...bottles work for people who are clueless i guess, but talk to any other grower of any other crop in the world (most of which will remind you that marijuana grows itself) and you will be speaking a totally different language. The biggest problem actual growers face trying to come into this industry for consulting or to work someone's grow is the overwhelming amount of bullshit they have to decipher just to figure out wtf is being fed to the plants. If you really wanted a dialed on point grow you wouldn't rely on someone mixing the dredges and lowest quality crap into a bottle for you, you'd take a water sample to a local fertilizer manufacturer and have them mix you a custom formula for dollars on the pound of high quality and pure ingredients. That's pretty much what veg bloom is, in fact I think they will analyze your water sample and make a custom formula as well.

and ya in the grand scheme of things it's chump change, but if i can cut my nutrient costs to 1/3rd then fuck yeah i'll drink more beer and go to more strip clubs. And the power bill is handled in a pretty awesome way too, you'd be suprised :)

We Solidarity · Nov 9, 2014

old water heaters and new mains will definitely mess up your watering situation...the reason veg bloom isn't working and AN is is because of all the chelates in AN that will allow the plant to eat almost anything...weed is one of the best plants for phytoremediation because it will absorb almost any contaminant to soil. So it's tough to get a deficiency with AN, but it's also way easier to harvest nug that has insanely high concentrations of heavy metals (and there are some other nasty things added to liquid fertilizers that contain lots of arsenic, copper, and cadmium which the plant will absorb and store, thus adding weight but increasing toxicity). It's actually one of the things that gives organic nug the organic taste, all of the heavy metals stored in the plant. Since learning that I've become a purist, and only grow in organic soil I've made myself of properly sourced materials or as pure as possible with clean nutrients...there's no flavor like terps!

Big JAE · Nov 9, 2014

Yeah dude I just wrote that, Chris from the company hydroponics research who makes veg bloom is the guy who mixed my custom veg bloom mix. That's why I wrote my fucked up water I used for the annalysis which is now fixed making the veg bloom I have that Chris the owner made for me off which is what I think could be causing the ph problems etc. I totally agree w u which is why I've been on this thread for a while. The whole reason I'm on this thread is because this forum was the only one that wasn't taken over by "use what nutrients we use or get out"" people. I fucking hate Advanced Nutrients because they over charge for liquid. If they sold there nutrients in powder form for half what they charge they would have my love. Until my new water analysis I sent to Chris 4 days ago comes back and he mixes me up a new batch I won't know exactly how veg+bloom works for me. Now that the new water mains, water heater + pipes are installed, I'm sure my results will be different with the new mix he makes me.

Big JAE · Nov 9, 2014

yeah man nothing tastes better than organic. The best herb I've smoked in a while came off this ugly ass cloner that was thrown outside early may and forgotten. Not a stitch of fertilizer, only rainwater! But I think the protek silicon I use and the 10 day leech at the end I do keeps all that shit out of my smoke. I would like to go 100% organic but dnt feel comfortable with it right now. Plus I don't have a warehouse to mix or make teas, I'm only 22 and live in a small place. But yeah now that my water problems are fixed I bet the veg+bloom mix he sends this week will work better

Capulator · Nov 9, 2014

pugliese63 said:
Been a while since I've checked in on this thread. One of the best on the farm. I've gained a lot from it.

I was given the following formula by @dizzlekush more than a year ago. I've ran had very good results. I'd be interested in hearing your feedback as I'm always looking to optimize my methods.

I grow drain to waste in a chow mix of Coco, rockwool, and hydroton.

For flower I run per gallon:

2.5 grams JPH
2.5 grams Calnitrate
.5 grams Ammonium Sulphate (first 3 to 4 weeks, strain dependent)
.5 grams Ammonium Phosphate, dibasic ASC grade (weeks 4 through 6 or 7 depending on the strain.
5 ml Bio Weed (kelp)

After catching up on everything here I feel I could make some adjustments, lower my EC and water more frequently.

Again, this is one of the best threads on here and have greatly appreciated your contributions.

The only thing I have to say is that @dizzlekush definitely knows his shit!

Right now I am running:

1.5 grams JPH
2.8 grams CaNO3
.7 grams Agsil
.2 grams MKP
.3 grams MAP
.5 grams K2SO4

happy b · Nov 9, 2014

Hey guys iv just found this thread.thats some grow we solidarity,your plants look great as do yours big jae.iv just started doing some dwc alongside my organics,but both on a fairly small scale-5plants in dwc and includeing my veg room about20+plants in soil.iv been useing AN in the dwc and canna in my organics.my question is,why are AN so bad(apart from being over the top expensive)and what would you guys suggest useing instead?bear in mind im new to hydro and dont really hav aclue.thanks.

pugliese63 · Nov 9, 2014

Capulator said:
The only thing I have to say is that @dizzlekush definitely knows his shit!

Right now I am running:

1.5 grams JPH
2.8 grams CaNO3
.7 grams Agsil
.2 grams MKP
.3 grams MAP
.5 grams K2SO4

View attachment 456697

Thanks for the response. Yea, @dizzlekush knows what's up.

I need to correct that formula.
Its actually .25 grams per gallon of Ammonium Sulphate and .25 grams per gallon of Ammonium Phosphate.

I'll definitely give your formula a run in the near future. I'll need to pick the last three items you have listed.

Thanks again.

Capulator · Nov 9, 2014

pugliese63 said:
Thanks for the response. Yea, @dizzlekush knows what's up.

I need to correct that formula.
Its actually .25 grams per gallon of Ammonium Sulphate and .25 grams per gallon of Ammonium Phosphate.

I'll definitely give your formula a run in the near future. I'll need to pick the last three items you have listed.

Thanks again.

At the end of stretch I drop the CaNO3 30% to around 2 grams/gal, eliminate the MAP and bump up the MKP to .5 g/gal and bump the K2SO4 to .6

pugliese63 · Nov 10, 2014

Capulator said:
At the end of stretch I drop the CaNO3 30% to around 2 grams/gal, eliminate the MAP and bump up the MKP to .5 g/gal and bump the K2SO4 to .6

Thanks again. Sharing this type of information is what makes the farm such a great community. I'm looking forward to using this.

Big JAE · Nov 10, 2014

Capulator said:
At the end of stretch I drop the CaNO3 30% to around 2 grams/gal, eliminate the MAP and bump up the MKP to .5 g/gal and bump the K2SO4 to .6

I'm going to give it a try although I didn't want to weigh out stuff, that looks cheap. I want to try it with the veg+bloom. The dude who owns that joint makes custom powders to your water type / analysis. That's got to be better than using the Jack's wouldn't it? You should hit Chris up at Hydroponics Research. He'll send you a 1lb custom blend to your water sample for $6.00. Very interested to see what would happen if you used the veg+bloom instead of the jack's. Just a thought, stuff is super cheap like the jack's.

If you get a free minute or hour, is there anyway you could hop on excel and make a nutrient schedule? I just have to go back and forth as I'm not a pro w chemical composition abbreviations and have a problem with my eyes currently. I can't look at a screen for long w/o getting a migraine. It would be sweet if I could print it off or if not a spreadsheet the breakdown using no abbreviations and I'll put it into excel a little at a time. Thanks

@happy b- thanks!

Capulator · Nov 10, 2014

Big JAE said:
I'm going to give it a try although I didn't want to weigh out stuff, that looks cheap. I want to try it with the veg+bloom. The dude who owns that joint makes custom powders to your water type / analysis. That's got to be better than using the Jack's wouldn't it? You should hit Chris up at Hydroponics Research. He'll send you a 1lb custom blend to your water sample for $6.00. Very interested to see what would happen if you used the veg+bloom instead of the jack's. Just a thought, stuff is super cheap like the jack's.

If you get a free minute or hour, is there anyway you could hop on excel and make a nutrient schedule? I just have to go back and forth as I'm not a pro w chemical composition abbreviations and have a problem with my eyes currently. I can't look at a screen for long w/o getting a migraine. It would be sweet if I could print it off or if not a spreadsheet the breakdown using no abbreviations and I'll put it into excel a little at a time. Thanks

@happy b- thanks!

You can have your own water tested, and then you can plug numbers in to a nutrient calculator to get any values you want. I don't have a lot of time right now to make a spreadsheet for you boss, you are gonna have to work that out on your own.

Crop king will also make you custom formulas, and so will grow more. You may look in to those places as well. More on the commercial ag side and may be cheaper yet.

pugliese63 · Nov 11, 2014

Capulator said:
At the end of stretch I drop the CaNO3 30% to around 2 grams/gal, eliminate the MAP and bump up the MKP to .5 g/gal and bump the K2SO4 to .6

In my search found a link that some might find interesting.

http://fertilizerbrokerage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=57

I've been using DAP until now and looking forward to switching out for MAP. I think this will really optimize my nutrient formula. I'm assuming the MAP you're using is 11-62-0.

Thanks again for all the salient information.

Big JAE · Nov 11, 2014

wow I didn't know you could buy MAP for 3 dollars a pound. That's cheap. Isn't it true that you can't over use MAP? Isn't that one of the ferts that plants absorb what they need and never pig out on?

happy b · Nov 12, 2014

hey guys im new to hydro and iv started a dwc grow from seed but my goji og roots are all black.i know this isnt a problems page but no one answered my thread and im desperate.simple question..is this root rot and how do i treat it?any advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.heres a wee pic of my roots

Surfandgrow · Nov 12, 2014

A+B+tap water and ph all the way through veg and flower. Just dechlorinate. Just another simple recipe that works. Less is more.

basement bob · Nov 12, 2014

happy b said:
hey guys im new to hydro and iv started a dwc grow from seed but my goji og roots are all black.i know this isnt a problems page but no one answered my thread and im desperate.simple question..is this root rot and how do i treat it?any advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.heres a wee pic of my rootsView attachment 457458

IMHO,

It looks like pythium root rot to me. Lots of products can work. To sterilize use DM Zone, Physan 20, UC Roots, H202. Twice daily doses at the correct rate should help. You can even use bleach.

Or Pythoff. But with Pythoff, you need the test strips to determine proper dosage. I can get anyone to ship these to me. I'd give your left nut for a 150 pack of test strips.

After killing the root rot, inoculate with OG Biowar and keep an eye on it.

Placing an UV light at the end of your source water will help allot.

Or just go with DTW Chow mix in smart pots or beds. So much better for a new grower with lots of questions. Trust me, I've got the Ferrari (Undercurrent system) parked in favor of the ugly diesel work truck (4 × 4 beds with perlite/peat)

PS. I wrecked the Ferrari allot.

Bob

Also, calling all farmers......
Were can we buy Pythoff test kit stateside?

happy b · Nov 12, 2014

Hey bob thanks.the only one of the things you mentioned that i actually have is bleach.lol.how does it work with the bleach.(if thats not a cheap alternative i dont know what is!)i wont be flowering out these plants any time soon as theyr only seedlings and i plan on taking cuttings off each fem to flower out and keep the seed plant as a mother.(if they dont die first)therefore i dont mind useing bleach if its gonni help.but how do i use it?do i add it to the water?at what ratio?sorry for all the questions bob but you drive a ferrari wereas i drive an old fucked mini.my point is..you obviously know more about it than i do.and by the way i have very limited funds as its nearing xmas and i have a kid which has to com first so cheaper alternatives really are the order of the day.thanks bob.

basement bob · Nov 12, 2014

If you read the post, my Ferrari is parked and for sale. I'm in the old diesel. ;)

The main reason I stopped running RDWC was Pythium. I wasn't comfortable losing every 4th harvest, or any for that matter.

Bleach applications can be very tricky with the multitude of different bleach strengths and concentrations available.

I'm not a master grower, and all I've learned is from here through trial and error and mad amounts of reading thousands of threads. So here's some tips.

Use the search function of thcfarmer.com.
Use the standard Clorox, no HE, no scents no nothing.
Calculate the ppm of bleach per ml in the Clorox.
Search for people using bleach. IF I remember right, a maintenance dose is around 0.1 ml/gal. It's up to you to determine what will kill the pythium.
Research bleach concentrations.

It's all out there, you just need to search.

Bob:)

And tell people what you have tried. Don't ask "What should I do?", but "I tried this and this happened. "

Also, taking the time to make your posts easy to read, punctuated and a little more formal my help allot.

IMVHO!

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Big JAE

Big JAE

We Solidarity

We Solidarity

Big JAE

Big JAE

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

happy b

Guest

pugliese63

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

pugliese63

Big JAE

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

pugliese63

Big JAE

happy b

Guest

Surfandgrow

basement bob

happy b

Guest

basement bob

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Big JAE

Big JAE

We Solidarity

We Solidarity

Big JAE

Big JAE

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

happy b

Guest

pugliese63

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

pugliese63

Big JAE

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

pugliese63

Big JAE

happy b

Guest

Surfandgrow

basement bob

happy b

Guest

basement bob

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