Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[jpdnkstr]

I do micro first then grow or bloom and calmag last, am I backwards?

You should be fine that way also.

 

[Pimples]

This is the main thread that helped me to start to understand some of this stuff about ppm and ratios and profiles. There are some smart people posting some great info on this thread...take a look and read it all....better than any book. It is a very long thread and in time the talk turns a lot to the use of Jacks Hydroponic. So much info on flushing and ppm and calculating nutes is to be found. One of the best threads on the internet for sure!


Ok this is the Fert I am talking about....



Scroll down from this link to this product.....

Jack’s Professional 5-12-26 Hydroponic
You also buy the Calcium Nitrate.....

Even though if you call them they wont admit it, this shit is fucking for growing our medicine!


Buy the 25 pound bags.............

1ml of water = 1 g.....

A full dose of Jacks is 3.7 grams of powder per gallon of water. It has no dyes. Most people run it at 3.0 grams of Jacks powder per gallon of water and the Calicium Nitrate most people add from 1.8 to 2.0 grams per gallon of water.

Jacks is weighed out in powder form in grams, then mixed into water. Pretty simple. Dont waste your money on any liquid fert! You are being scammed, slapped silly in the pocketbook, kept in the dark from vital, yet simple information on the most basic of plant nutrition.

Phosphorus and Calcium dont mix well together thats why formulas are split into a couple of parts that you mix seperate with water then combine. There are precpitation problems from C and sulfates.

Remember....

1) a solution with all the Calcium
2) a seperate solution containing all the phosphates and sulfates....


IE....you mix the Jacks, which contains P, with some water and dump that into the reso, and then you add epsom salts mixed with water into the reso..then you add the calcium nitrate containing the calcium...the reso is diluted with the P and S so the the resulting addition of the calcium nitrate creates no precipitation problems....

Flocculation is the result of adding Calcium Nitrate into a glass, then adding an equal amount of of epsom salt ie magnesium sulfate...soon you will see cloudiness as the calcium and Sulfate join hands in the process of droping out of the solution. This flocculant forming is calcium sulfate and soon it will drop to the bottom the glass. Before long you have created 97% insoluble CaSO4 (Gypsum) and guess what this is not available to your plants......Jim MCCaskill.........Plant Nutrient Facts For Hydroponics...

My PK boost is simply to adjust the ratio of the Jacks Hydroponic to the amount of Calciumn Nitrate like Skywalker suggested. Meaning I mix a batch one week with 4 grams or a full 3.7 grams of jacks while keeping the Calcium Nitrate at the same 1.8 to 2.0 range.I also add epsom salts for added Mg. Usually at the rate of 1g per gallon for my Mg hungry plants.

This is an important thread containing lots of information. Ive used Jacks for many grows and the results are incredible in the finnished product.

I dont use additives or boosters. I feed only Jacks Hydroponic with added Calcium nitrate. I dont feel that they are needed ever! I could be wrong though.........

KoolBloom for example is just Magnesium Sulfate, Ammonium Phosphate and Sulfate. They sell it to you for so much money! I dont feel that your plants need this stuff! Their plate is already full from the nutes that I give them as a balanced diet. I dont ever let the P get to high in flower! Phosphate is not needed to the degree people blast their plants with it!

Anyone else agree with with my opinion concerning P?

http://www.growersunderground.com/PhosphorusMyth.pdf

Plants dont appear to need or want a big boost of P in flower. They need a little added N and K and a touch of added P over veg.....check out the bar graphs...cannabis wants K at a 4 to 1 ratio over P in flower! You dont need all that Phosphate!

More on Jacks Hydro formula....

Our researchers at J.R. Peters have a formulated a 2-step fertilization system specifically for hydroponic applications, that will supply the ideal nutrient levels to your plants. These fertilizer products are available in our commercial line called Jack’s Professional. Using a combination of Jack’s Professional Hydroponic 5-12-26 and Jack’s Professional Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0, this
system can be easily customized to fit your operation, whether you grow 2 or 20,000 hydroponic plants. These specialized products are available directly through the J.R. Peters Laboratory. Check out our website www.jrpeterslab.com.

Ok what plants are they talking about? It turns out all plants follow a basic elemental need. See the link that i posted above and look at the graphes of the 3 different strains. Pot is not really different then any other plant. This Jacks Hydroponic formula seems to mimic plant tissue samples of cannabis although Peters will not admit this if you call them on the phone. Crop King also offers a formula that is very similer.


This is the Jacks at 100% or 3.7 grams of dry pwoder per gallon of water, before the added Calcium Nitrate

Total ppm
Nitrogen (All Nitrate) N 50
Phosphorus P 52
Potassium K 215
Magnesium Mg 63
Sulfur S 82
Iron Fe 3
Manganese Mn 0.50
Zinc Zn 0.15
Copper Cu 0.15
Boron B 0.50
Molybdenum Mo 0.10

After the added CaNo3 the N is boosted to N: 150 ppm,
and Calcium as Ca: 116 ppm Ca so if you mix at 100% strength Jacks with 100% Calcium nitrate(2.44 grams per gallon) you have a formula of....

Total ppm
Nitrogen (All Nitrate) N 150
Phosphorus P 52
Potassium K 215
Calcium C 116
Magnesium Mg 63
Sulfur S 82
Iron Fe 3
Manganese Mn 0.50
Zinc Zn 0.15
Copper Cu 0.15
Boron B 0.50
Molybdenum Mo 0.10

This P and N is a little high.

You add epson salt for added Mg for Mg hungry strains...and I run approx 75% strength of the above formula! 3.0 grams of Jacks and 1.8 of CaNo3. This is a 2.88-1-4.13 ratio of N-P-K.....


This is the breakdown of 3.0 g per gallon of Jacks and 1.8 g per gallon of Calcium Nitrate.This combo is actually good to go and close to 75% strength(3.7 grams of Jacks per gallon is full strength). Sometimes when needed I add Nitric Acid for ph down which boosts the elemental ppm of the N a bit. I just made some ph down with sulphuric acid. I will start using that soon for a final flush, adding only a little S to the plants. Adding ph down from GH is phosphoric acid and will add P to the mix...so 3.0 jacks and 1.8 gives you approx...

N...113
P.....41
K....171
Ca...90
Mg...50
S.....65

535 elemental ppm
5.7 pH very strict
3.0 g/gal Jacks Pro Hydro Special (A)
1.8 g/gal CaN03 calcium nitrate (B)


I like the Ca:N ratio of .8 and the N:p ratio of .66 and the K:p at 4.17 a great deal. Those are very close to what I want to shoot for...very close to modern analysis of cannabis tissue samples.

ppm is kept very low at all times a very cool mix!!!......



To quote a post that greatly influenced me.....these are not my words...

Something else that perhaps bears mentioning, in an effort to cut through myth, bs and marketing hype... and I bring this up based on experiences of people who know more than I do, and for the fact that I have come to see the truth of it myself.

I originally began using Liquid Kool Bloom because I had read ads and read that so many people were using bloom boosters. The plants need extra P and K, yada yada. I bought into it, before I had any clue what I was doing.

But the truth is - no - you don't need any kind of booster. The bloom mix is all the girls need. All the way through the grow, to the very last day. Adding any kind of booster just skews the nutrient balance. If the plants do actually benefit at all, then they weren't getting the right mix in the first place.

I messed with this one additional time a few months ago. Bad idea. Stalled the plants. Found the same thing if I started adding supplements to the topups. Water only now; just do the res changes frequently.

I have come to view plant growth as surfing. If I can provide the right conditions for a cutting to root well and grow vigorously, that plant has "caught a wave". If I can keep her riding that wave right through to harvest, I will have a tree with a spectacular yield.

If however, anything happens that causes the plant to crash off the wave, what I refer to as "stalling", it will take her awhile to find another wave, and she won't ride nearly as high, or as far. You end up cutting down a somewhat lame plant. Been there, done that, oh so many times.

What has emerged in my observations is maintaining a consistent nutritional regimen. In other words, I run the same TDS in veg and bloom, I don't add supplements or additives, always the same strength mix, always replenished at a consistent interval. The plants seem to have come to expect that same pattern. Should I deviate, my yield will suffer. Even just postponing a res change for a day can impact the momentum of the plant, for lack of a better term. And adding supplements or boosting nute strength just throws everything out of whack.

The plants really do tell us what's going on. I believe the strength of the experienced people who grow amazing plants is in knowing how to read what the plants are telling them, and knowing what to do. Me, I'm still just beginning to figure this out. Not knowing much of the science, I ride by the seat of my pants with observation and trial and error.

This is the best and most honest post on cannabis plant fertilization in the history of online marijuana growing forums. Anyone and I mean anyone whether a Noob or seasoned pro would do well to follow this posts suggestions when your starting up your next fresh crop. I mean it too. I myself need to put all that pricey crap away and take it back to the basics..because thats all marijuana plants need or ever want indoors under lights..basics.

 

[dollardos]

Where can I get ag grade mycorrhizae at.
What is the best one
I like great white but it's way tooo pricey

 

[PhatNuggz]

Cheap is relative, BUT,... After years of using bottled nutes (Dutch Master, Emerald Harvest, this grow I am using NPK RAW, which are dry powders. They offer a full range of individual elements, as well as premixed grow and bloom formulas.

Here's a pic of 2 plants less than 7 days from first pistils

Come follow my thread for details: new thread Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

 

[stonestacker]

Cheap is relative, BUT,... After years of using bottled nutes (Dutch Master, Emerald Harvest, this grow I am using NPK RAW, which are dry powders. They offer a full range of individual elements, as well as premixed grow and bloom formulas.

Here's a pic of 2 plants less than 7 days from first pistils

Come follow my thread for details: new thread Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

This will help.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/hail-hydro-2-0-new-beginnings.89446/

One click shopping lol.

 

[Pimples]

Cheap is relative, BUT,... After years of using bottled nutes (Dutch Master, Emerald Harvest, this grow I am using NPK RAW, which are dry powders. They offer a full range of individual elements, as well as premixed grow and bloom formulas.

Here's a pic of 2 plants less than 7 days from first pistils

Come follow my thread for details: new thread Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

No offense and Iam good friends with Harley Smith but RAW by NPK Industries is some expensive ass powders. Cheaper than the bottles out there but not by much. I do like there yucca and amino acid packets but I have moved on to much cheaper alternatives. They are giving basic salt fertilizer ( pre mixed but whoopty doo) and powdered additives with a HUGE markup. They like others are still stuck in that hobby hydroponic industry mindset. Them days are drawing to a close for me.

 

[Pimples]

Cheap is relative, BUT,... After years of using bottled nutes (Dutch Master, Emerald Harvest, this grow I am using NPK RAW, which are dry powders. They offer a full range of individual elements, as well as premixed grow and bloom formulas.

Here's a pic of 2 plants less than 7 days from first pistils

Come follow my thread for details: new thread Hail Hydro 2.0: New Beginnings

Nice plants by the way..I like your cage trellis set up. Sweet!!!

 

[PhatNuggz]

No offense and Iam good friends with Harley Smith but RAW by NPK Industries is some expensive ass powders. Cheaper than the bottles out there but not by much. I do like there yucca and amino acid packets but I have moved on to much cheaper alternatives. They are giving basic salt fertilizer ( pre mixed but whoopty doo) and powdered additives with a HUGE markup. They like others are still stuck in that hobby hydroponic industry mindset. Them days are drawing to a close for me.

No offense taken. And thanks for the props. Sounds like you have a much bigger grow room than me (4-6 plants + perpetual babies), or many who come here for knowledge. I am finding that I am using ~ half the TDS then I used to with either EH or RAW, I think it's my revised aerating method (could also be the Yucca). The blooming plants that were grown with RAW are on speed. Yesterday I received Micro for Grow and Bloom, and added just one tsp to 4g rezes.

 

[Purpose420]

btw thats the recommended profile and it looks quite good to me.

i would probably start to interchange epsome form the cal/nitrate at around week 4-5 (half and half and then full epsome for the last change out before flush.)

That depends on who you talk to, I like the 312 profile..

 

[Pimples]

No offense taken. And thanks for the props. Sounds like you have a much bigger grow room than me (4-6 plants + perpetual babies), or many who come here for knowledge. I am finding that I am using ~ half the TDS then I used to with either EH or RAW, I think it's my revised aerating method (could also be the Yucca). The blooming plants that were grown with RAW are on speed. Yesterday I received Micro for Grow and Bloom, and added just one tsp to 4g rezes.

View attachment 723425

Yeah. I run a larger operation for a house/basement. I got 8 600 watt Gavitas in one room. And 4 x 1000 watt traditional mogul socket fixtures in another. I dont run that room with all the lights (sometimes just 2 of the 1000 watters) in the dead of summer. Just too much heat and my mini split a.c. and santa fe dehuey is for the Gavita room. I run 2 large tents packed with T5's and halide lamps for vegging and another 3x3 tent with its own lamp for a test/quarantine room for all new gear whether its seed strains or gifted clones. This is so I dont pass bugs, diseases, or hermaphrodite (intersexed) varieties to my main rooms and lineup. I found out the hard way with running perpetual rotation gardens that bad plants can really wreak havoc on the medicine I grow for my patients. All my mother stock plants for new fresh cuttings are backed up at another house location. Cooking those under t5's as well. Very soon iam also switching all veg lights to ceramic metal halides. See how better those are compared to regular halides and t5's. I pretty much harvest every 4 to 5 weeks...something always going in and out of the rooms to keep patients supplied with top quality. Its an expensive ship to steer no doubt about it. What with the electric and water bills not counting my consumables like coco coir (which I do reuse up to 3 times) and nutrient costs. Thats a pricey one and its about to change. Ive basically stuck with Canna nutes (but ive used them all) and its ridiculous for my set up to continue. I run 4 to 6 30 gallon drain to waste reservoirs on a drip manifold setup and I run through ALOT of fertilizers and supplements. Iam about to run out of my bottles (again) but soon Iam going with Jacks Hydroponic + CalNit and epsom salts. The 3 gram 2 gram 1 gram thing and see how it works out. I will literally saves thousands in nutrient fertilizer expense to get the same end product. The only additives I add to my tanks arw fulvic acid and silica. And I foliar spray every week..kelp extract...fulvic acid...amino acid...and yucca. And every third spray its cold pressed neem oil and yucca. This is a preventative pest and bug measure. Mites and p.m. suck but it really sucks for a serious perpetual rotation garden. It takes some time to collect all the strains my patients really like and dial them all to perfection for monthly chops..cloning..vegging..and flowering. A pest or disease infeststion ruins all of that. I try to run a super clean operation if you cant tell already. Well Iam rambling and baked out of my gourd from 2 bowls of cataract kush. But yeah...Iam going to Jacks fertilizer so save me a ton of money really soon. Its just crazy to run a decent sized garden with the overpriced hobby hydroponic store bought nutrients and additives.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Wow. I watched a few NPK University YT videos. In one he talks about mold (which I had in one top cola) that was so dense no air could pass through, so my ears perked up. In addition to silica/yucca, he says microbes help by making for smaller cells that in essence make it impossible for mold to enter and anchor itself inside the plant. Seems logical that a healthier plant is going to be more resistant. Probably more important than which NPK

Check out Amare Technologies Pro series LEDs https://www.amaretechnology.com/product-page/solarpro-sp900-pro9

I've been using his panels for 3+ years. Never one failure. He's a grower, too.

Also, I veg under T5s with Transcend Lighting LEDs that drop right in. Much less elec and heat

 

[Chamitch]

That

I know I am not Cap but I have done some hunting on a product here
I wouldnt comment unless I use it to.
RAW, In the flyIN J mix
its a Great inepensive Hydroponic and its designed to attach to other uptake nutrient .
Makes for The plants easy cheesy
And its Cheap and less than an 1/8 th teaspoon per gallon
View attachment 538564 Peace
FlyJ

That is simply diatomaceous earth for very expensive price. No it is not soluble so no its no good for hydro.gets rid of bugs amd may have few trace minerals. But not grabbing or chelating nutrients..

 

[Pimples]

My indoor cats got frikin fleas this summer real bad and they were getting pretty bad in our front room carpet. The pet store tried selling me a big bag of DE powder. Lady said it excelllent for killing fleas on floors and carpets. So I have a big bag in my garage I use to use as a top dress for plants years and years ago. Used that. Fleas are almost gone.

 

[dumbthumb]

this is an old thread so is Jacks still the go-to for best value?
that stuff is up to 60-80 per bag and i havent seen it divvyed
out by sellers on ebay. even the 4 pound tub is up to 50 bucks.

theres some "master blend" sellers selling 4-18-38 for hydro on ebay
in 2 pound kits.
thats diffferent ratios tho.

i dont need no 25 pound of the stuff but i do hate paying for overpriced nutes.

edit: apparently i replied to the wrong post (quoted). was meant to reply to the OP.

 

[jewsh808]

I been having great results lately with Dyna Gro

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Chem-Gro
Hydro-Gardens has been blending CHEM-GRO custom hydroponic nutrient formulas since 1965. We believe them to be the best and most accurate for each type of plant. Try it for yourself and see why we have been selling them for over 45 years

Chem-Gro | Hydro-Gardens
https://hydro-gardens.com/product-category/fertilizers/chemgro


Description

• Additional information

Description

This is a 25 pound bag of our specially formulated 4-20 hydroponic growing food. It has the ideal balance of growing nutrients needed for healthy plants.

Check out the new 4-20-39 brochure – 4-20-39 Brochure

CHEM-GRO 4-20 HYDROPONIC FORMULA 4-20-39

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Total Nitrogen (N) ……………………………………………………4.00%
Nitrate Nitrogen…………………………………………3.50%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen………………………………….0.50%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205)………………………………20.00%
Soluble Potash (K20)……………………………………………… 39.00%
Available Magnesium as (Mg)……………………………………..0.35%

TRACE ELEMENTS

Boron as (B) …………………………………………………………….0.20%
Copper as (Cu)………………………………………………………… 0.05%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe).. ……………………………………………..0.41%
Manganese as (Mn)……………………………………………………0.22%
Molybdenum as (Mo) …………………………………………………0.01%
Zinc as (Zn)……………………………………………………………….0.05%

Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash, Iron Chelate (DTPA), Boric Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Sulfate & Molybdic Acid

4-20-39 SDS

CHEM-GRO 4-20 HYDROPONIC 4-20-39
Mixing Instructions for 100 gallons of water
(For full strength working solution)
For standard 12 week cycle (4-Veg & 8-Flower)

4-20-39 Recipe 2017

Designed for Hemp/Cannabis growing hydroponically

How To Mix Chem-Gro Fertilizers

Quantity Pricing Available (Quantity Discounts will be applied in the cart)
Quantity Breaks – 1-3 / 4-7 / 8-19 / 20-39 / 40-79 / 80-199 / 200+

Shipping will be determined by each order.
The freight that shows on this shopping cart is just an estimate. Actual shipping charges will be adjusted.

 

[Molenium]

Cheap but easy to find are Alaska fish emulsion for veg or kellogs fish kelp or grow more seaweed extract. Fox farm big bloom and molasses for flower. Mix molasses and kelp or fish etc and bubble with air stone 24 hours; Soil drench 2 or 3 times during flowering and you'll get great results. Great Mediums are simple to mix and locate peat, perlite, castings and your good to go. Less is more.

 

[Molenium]

Even a high PK JOBES SPIKE WOULD WORK IN FLOWER IF REMOVED SOON AND A GOOD FLUSH. IF ORGANIC-ISH DOESN'T MATTER, PETER'S AND HAWAIIAN BLOOM OR WHATEVER

 

[PhatNuggz]

My indoor cats got frikin fleas this summer real bad and they were getting pretty bad in our front room carpet. The pet store tried selling me a big bag of DE powder. Lady said it excelllent for killing fleas on floors and carpets. So I have a big bag in my garage I use to use as a top dress for plants years and years ago. Used that. Fleas are almost gone.

Dr Bonners Peppermint soap works great. actually all you ned is peppermint oil. Rub it on your cats. It coats the flea skin so they can't breathe, but you must repeat for a while to kill the eggs and larvae

 

[Pimples]

Dr Bonners Peppermint soap works great. actually all you ned is peppermint oil. Rub it on your cats. It coats the flea skin so they can't breathe, but you must repeat for a while to kill the eggs and larvae

That Bronners soap is also an excellent spreader;sticker for foliar sprays. Much like yucca. Good stuff. Except it has added peppermint which mites and bugs cannot stand.