Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[Capulator]

Jacks Hydro Professional sold by JR peters labs.

The ratios I am talking about are ratios based on elemental PPM, not percentages.

You are right about the calcium. I didnt look at the pages long enough.

Cal mag adds extra Ca somehow, but Im not really worried about that. I just go by the GA to figure out the formula I want to try. Cal mag gives me less N. Yes, I did just happen to have a bottle I want to use up.


I think my future res changes using jacks will all look like this:

2.88 g/gal jacks hydro
2 g/gal cal nitrate
1 g/gal epsom
.1 g/gal MOST
.14 g/gal 98%CaCl2 (to add 50 ppm Ca)

NOT in that order.

Sulfuric acid for pH down.

 

[wobbly goblin]

jacks 5-12-26 hydroponic(basically the same as scott's hydro sol 5-11-26 that jack sold to scott's)

5% n
12% p2O5
26% k2O
etc


@ 3.7 grams per gal equates to:
50 ppm n
52 ppm p
215 ppm k
etc.

this is from the label and it looks as it is a x-1-4 ratio to me before adding the cal-nit

fwiw

 

[Chronic Monster]

thanks everyone, this has turned into a wonderful wealth of Info in here. I loving the Jack's as well. peace luv and saving money

 

[Capulator]

And the man who started the thread finally re appears...


What up CM!

 

[rickisonline]

Anyone using Hydro Herb FeED?

I just ordered some today and wondering what I am getting in to?

 

[ttystikk]

I just ordered some today and wondering what I am getting in to?

I'm using Jacks Professional along with Calcium nitrate, and I love it. I think some others here have been using the Herb nutes...

 

[tokinupon1]

This thread has really opened my eyes to understanding nutes big thanks guys and keep it rolling.

 

[CenterCollect]

Trying this out....

I am currently using a version of this formula I could find locally. The #'s are slightly different, but was very inspired by this thread to make a change. Switched from Botanicare PBP, Cal Mag, Liquid Karma, and Sweet. Here is what I have going on:

Mix of 7 Chemdog4 and 11 Sour Diesel in CAP Eb and Grow System.

Week 5 of Flower, switched nutes at week 4

2x 1000w Air cooled HPS Raptors

Temps in res and room normal/low

PH averages 5.8

No CO2

Formula:
3g per gal Plant Marvel Hydroponic Blend 3-15-26
http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=7725

2g per gal Cal Nit

1 g per gal Epsom salt

I need advice if this formula will work with this base....I have not had a ton of experience working the individual values, always had luck with the "dump some of this magic stuff in the rez" mentality. I am not trying to understand more of how growing really works. Anyway, I am showing N def. now, especially directly under the lights. What is the solution to this and how do I adjust my values accordingly? Thank you in advance...So much info here, you guys are great!

 

[prometh]

i was looking into the moab/hammerhead combo and i was wondering how this works..

is it cause the sulfur in overdrive or is it because you're getting multiple sources of PK? or is it the boost in K

 

[Capulator]

i was looking into the moab/hammerhead combo and i was wondering how this works..

is it cause the sulfur in overdrive or is it because you're getting multiple sources of PK? or is it the boost in K

probably all of the above.

Its about the ratios and elemental ppm for yoru strain, not the expensive products that all have the same thing in different %.

 

[ttystikk]

It's all the same N-P-K-Ca-Su-Mg. Really.

probably all of the above.

Its about the ratios and elemental ppm for your strain, not the expensive products that all have the same thing in different %.

Exactly! It's not about the damned label, bro- it's about the actual nutrient profiles. Look Prometh- what's been amazing to me throughout this whole discussion is just how loyal people are to a label when the truth is that THEY'RE ALL THE SAME DAMNED NUTRIENTS.

Nitrogen is either nitrate, nitrite or ammonia.
Phosphorus is... phosphorus.
Potassium is potassium.
Etc...

The point I'm making is that there is no damned magic in the expensive bottles of liquid- EXCEPT for the marketing magic that keeps fooling otherwise intelligent people into buying it instead of getting the very same stuff at a tiny fraction of the cost!

Have you ever wondered why greenhouses don't use these hydroponic nutrient lines? Because they KNOW BETTER, that's why!

When I bought some of this stuff and discovered I could empty, refill and fully feed my 80 gallon RDWC for about $2.00, I felt kinda stoopid- like I'd been had by the hype. It wears off pretty quickly though, just keep using the Jacks and you'll feel much better! ;)

 

[Capulator]

I highly recommend getting some 98% CaCl2



.28 grams per gallon to raise Ca by 100ppm. I am using .14 grams/gal. for all of my plants now veg/bloom

Its all about the Ca people. It's responsible for your plants ability to uptake all other nutrients.

Jacks does not provide enough in rdwc IMHO.

 

[motherlode]

I highly recommend getting some 98% CaCl2



.28 grams per gallon to raise Ca by 100ppm. I am using .14 grams/gal. for all of my plants now veg/bloom

Its all about the Ca people. It's responsible for your plants ability to uptake all other nutrients.

Jacks does not provide enough in rdwc IMHO.

true dat

good info mang - thx for sharing

 

[ttystikk]

I highly recommend getting some 98% CaCl2



.28 grams per gallon to raise Ca by 100ppm. I am using .14 grams/gal. for all of my plants now veg/bloom

Its all about the Ca people. It's responsible for your plants ability to uptake all other nutrients.

Jacks does not provide enough in rdwc IMHO.

Calcium chloride, aka pickling crisp, or driveway deicer. Don't use the driveway deicer, it's got a bunch of unknown impurities in it.

You're suggesting I use this in addition to the calcium nitrate, correct? Adding it last, of course... ;)

Also, what happens to the chloride ion in this situation? Does it matter?

If you'd be so kind, can you list out the full nutrient mix you use for veg, and for flower? I've been following your comments on here and in other threads and I'd like to know what you've settled on most recently.

 

[organicness]

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this situation. I'm running low pressure aero/nft and in one rez/rail have a few autoflowers, and in another separate rez/rails have some BuKu, blue widow and pineapple express. The photoperiod plants are knockin' it out of the park. They're on 750-800ppm of Jack's (the photos) and 5.9ph.

The autos are where the problems are. They're on 480-500ppm of Jack's (same formulation - 400ppm of Hydro, 43ppm epsom salts, 268ppm calcium nitrate) and pH 5.9 but they've just stopped growing. The roots all look great, but aren't growing, leaves are all green but not growing any more, and I'm lost on what the issue could be. The only thing that's changed was switching them from an LED where I propagate to 600watt HPS in the flower room. Yea, I know they're on 12 hours of light, but I've done this with other autos in the past and they worked out just fine.

Any thoughts? Am I not doing it right by just diluting the formula down to a more manageable PPM for the autos? Thanks so much for your expertise.

 

[Capulator]

Calcium chloride, aka pickling crisp, or driveway deicer. Don't use the driveway deicer, it's got a bunch of unknown impurities in it.

You're suggesting I use this in addition to the calcium nitrate, correct? Adding it last, of course... ;)

Also, what happens to the chloride ion in this situation? Does it matter?

If you'd be so kind, can you list out the full nutrient mix you use for veg, and for flower? I've been following your comments on here and in other threads and I'd like to know what you've settled on most recently.

Correct.

In my current formula I do this:

Add hydro, epsom, MOST, and a little monster bloom (I have some left over) in one dixie cup.

add cal nit and cacl2 in another cup.

add these to 2 separate 1 gallon containers with hot water. shake.

Add hydro solution.

Wait about 10 min,

Add cal solution.

I'll post the exact formula when I am close to my excel spreadsheet for the 2:1:4 bloom formula I am using.


Plants need Cl. Its one of the elements plants use. You wont even have any if you are using RO and the jacks. This is a great way to add it in, and boost calcium to sufficient levels. It is not making my pH drift at all. Since I stopped adding Si to the res, pH is stable.

 

[Capulator]

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this situation. I'm running low pressure aero/nft and in one rez/rail have a few autoflowers, and in another separate rez/rails have some BuKu, blue widow and pineapple express. The photoperiod plants are knockin' it out of the park. They're on 750-800ppm of Jack's (the photos) and 5.9ph.

The autos are where the problems are. They're on 480-500ppm of Jack's (same formulation - 400ppm of Hydro, 43ppm epsom salts, 268ppm calcium nitrate) and pH 5.9 but they've just stopped growing. The roots all look great, but aren't growing, leaves are all green but not growing any more, and I'm lost on what the issue could be. The only thing that's changed was switching them from an LED where I propagate to 600watt HPS in the flower room. Yea, I know they're on 12 hours of light, but I've done this with other autos in the past and they worked out just fine.

Any thoughts? Am I not doing it right by just diluting the formula down to a more manageable PPM for the autos? Thanks so much for your expertise.

Discontinue your autos because ruderalis sucks. Thats the only advice I have O. The formula wont affect their growth/bloom cycle, unless you dont have enough calcium. If you dont have enough Ca they will be stunted, but you will also see the spotting of the leaves.

 

[Capulator]

Hey look what I found:





Theres your answer peeps.

 

[Crysmatic]

I highly recommend getting some 98% CaCl2



.28 grams per gallon to raise Ca by 100ppm. I am using .14 grams/gal. for all of my plants now veg/bloom

Its all about the Ca people. It's responsible for your plants ability to uptake all other nutrients.

Jacks does not provide enough in rdwc IMHO.

interesting, if brief, article.

"Chloride Deficiency Symptoms
Too little chloride in plants can cause a variety of symptoms.

Chloride deficiency symptoms include:

Wilting due to a restricted and highly branched root system, often with stubby tips, and

Leaf mottling and leaflet blade tip wilting with chlorosis has also been observed. "

were you seeing any chloride deficiencies before adding ~100 ppm chloride? do you see any specific benefits now that you use it?

i'm curious why you're running ~1.25:1 Ca:N. any reasoning behind it? (unless you're running coco) fatman has stated the 'ideal' ratio 80-100% Ca:N.

0.14 g/usgal is 37 ppm, and since Ca is 36% of CaCl2, i figure you're only adding 13 ppm Ca (98% pure) and 23 ppm Cl-. how did you get 50 ppm Ca?

"So with a dose of jacks at 3.6g/gal and cal nit at 2.5 g/gal.. you get

N: 150
P: 50
K: 205
S: 60
Mg: 78
Ca 119"

also with calnit, i assume 15.5-0-0-19, @ 2.5 g/usgal is 660 ppm, of which Ca is 125 ppm. Ca is ~83% of N (125/150 give or take a few ppm). Mg is a Ca antagonist, so reducing Mg to ~60 ppm (50% of Ca) is similar to raising Ca (while affecting the fewest antagonisms). my .02

 

[Capulator]

interesting, if brief, article.

"Chloride Deficiency Symptoms
Too little chloride in plants can cause a variety of symptoms.

Chloride deficiency symptoms include:

Wilting due to a restricted and highly branched root system, often with stubby tips, and

Leaf mottling and leaflet blade tip wilting with chlorosis has also been observed. "

were you seeing any chloride deficiencies before adding ~100 ppm chloride? do you see any specific benefits now that you use it?

i'm curious why you're running ~1.25:1 Ca:N. any reasoning behind it? (unless you're running coco) fatman has stated the 'ideal' ratio 80-100% Ca:N.

0.14 g/usgal is 37 ppm, and since Ca is 36% of CaCl2, i figure you're only adding 13 ppm Ca (98% pure) and 23 ppm Cl-. how did you get 50 ppm Ca?

"So with a dose of jacks at 3.6g/gal and cal nit at 2.5 g/gal.. you get

N: 150
P: 50
K: 205
S: 60
Mg: 78
Ca 119"

also with calnit, i assume 15.5-0-0-19, @ 2.5 g/usgal is 660 ppm, of which Ca is 125 ppm. Ca is ~83% of N (125/150 give or take a few ppm). Mg is a Ca antagonist, so reducing Mg to ~60 ppm (50% of Ca) is similar to raising Ca (while affecting the fewest antagonisms). my .02

Here is what I am currently running after the stretch:

Hydro : 3 grams
CaNO3: 1.5 grams
Monster Bloom: .25 grams
MOST: .1 grams
Epsom (MgSO4) : 1 gram
CaCl: .14 grams

N: 101
P: 56
K: 187
Ca: 125
S: 104.7
Mg: 75
Cl: 75ish (i think)... my math may be off here. fatman told me that .28 grams of 98% cacl2 would raise Ca by 100 ppm in 1 gallon, so I am assuming based on molar mass, that Cl would go up by 156ppm... but Im no chemist and I may be wrong.

IN veg my formula would have 122ppm N and 150 ppm Ca. Mg would be 75 ppm, using 3 grams hydro, 2 grams CaNO3, .1 grams MOST, and .14 grams CaCl2, which is closer to the ratios you are talking about.

My reason for this is that I am pretty sure that in a weeks time, my plants were eating all the Ca I had in the res at 125ppm, leaving them hungry for more. I will not have this problem again, as I will be adding 25 ppm more Ca and foliar feeding with Ca as well. From what I understand it is VERY hard to over due it with Ca.